Western Region FL - Divy 1 2021

[ROOS77]

It's not as simple as that though. The area has something like 10 or 11 clubs within a 20 minute drive, where the majority of the people living in the area not of football backgrounds. Of those clubs, only Caroline Springs (relatively established estate) and Yarraville (cool to live there) have any sort of "successful" junior programs. Fact is there are too many teams, not enough kids or money in the area.

Most clubs have plenty of others clubs within 20 minutes of each other and survive

 

[WRFL Indentity]

Most clubs have plenty of others clubs within 20 minutes of each other and survive

They do. But they are in better growth areas due to things like public transportation, schools etc...

Deer Park has 10 other clubs in a 20km radius, all fighting for the same kids with Caroline Springs taking the Lions share.

You only need to look at the lack of juniors at Albanvale, Braybrook and Albion to see how bad the situation actually is.

Clubs like Yarraville, Spotty and Altona will always have good junior programs due to where they are geographically located. People want to live there, and they have established, successful programs. Deer Park and other don't and probably won't ever.

 

[ROOS77]

They do. But they are in better growth areas due to things like public transportation, schools etc...

Deer Park has 10 other clubs in a 20km radius, all fighting for the same kids with Caroline Springs taking the Lions share.

You only need to look at the lack of juniors at Albanvale, Braybrook and Albion to see how bad the situation actually is.

Clubs like Yarraville, Spotty and Altona will always have good junior programs due to where they are geographically located. People want to live there, and they have established, successful programs. Deer Park and other don't and probably won't ever.

I agree with some of that but Newport Power juniors are a good example of starting from the bottom up, they are smack bang in the middle of the two of most successful juniors clubs (spotty and Willy) in wrfl history and have nearly 20 teams now

 

[WRFL Indentity]

I agree with some of that but Newport Power juniors are a good example of starting from the bottom up, they are smack bang in the middle of the two of most successful juniors clubs (spotty and Willy) in wrfl history and have nearly 20 teams now

Yeah. A few other factors such as location and local community in it there. Probably the exception that proves rule.

 

[trucka]

They do. But they are in better growth areas due to things like public transportation, schools etc...

Deer Park has 10 other clubs in a 20km radius, all fighting for the same kids with Caroline Springs taking the Lions share.

You only need to look at the lack of juniors at Albanvale, Braybrook and Albion to see how bad the situation actually is.

Clubs like Yarraville, Spotty and Altona will always have good junior programs due to where they are geographically located. People want to live there, and they have established, successful programs. Deer Park and other don't and probably won't ever.

I agree that the demographics is an issue, however, it is interesting to note that they use to have a very good Junior program, ironically it seemed to fall over about the same time the Seniors became successful, which I thought would help retain Juniors. Maybe the concentration (and money) was geared more towards Senior success rather than Junior

 

[WRFL Indentity]

I agree that the demographics is an issue, however, it is interesting to note that they use to have a very good Junior program, ironically it seemed to full over about the same time the Seniors became successful, which i thought would help retain Juniors. Maybe the concentration (and money) was geared more towards Senior success rather than Junior

Its an interesting case study for sure.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

I agree that the demographics is an issue, however, it is interesting to note that they use to have a very good Junior program, ironically it seemed to full over about the same time the Seniors became successful, which i thought would help retain Juniors. Maybe the concentration (and money) was geared more towards Senior success rather than Junior

If that's the case, where they let their juniors fall away whilst they paid for the super of ex AFL players, they deserve to have bugger all points, how that's good for the deer Park community has me stumped

 

[lachy]

Building a Junior program to flow through to seniors takes 9 plus years and then a lot relies on the luck of demographics.

It changes over time and is not easy. Clubs that succeed should be rewarded via the points system but those that don't should not be punished.

Personally I hate seeing traditional clubs struggle due to demographics.

I am no Deer Park lover, in fact their arrogance whilst clearly pushing boundaries did and continues to do then no favours and would have loved to see them fail.

But not to the extent it kills the club and not to the extent it makes them non competitive. 46 points should be the minimum. Pressure should be applied to the salary cap as best as possible though a $100k div one cap is a joke. Make this the base for all clubs and add extra points for those clubs who have not been competitive to ensure a strong div 1 otherwise there is a real possibility div 2 will be more competitive than div1.

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ROOS77]

Building a Junior program to flow through to seniors takes 9 plus years and then a lot relies on the luck of demographics.

It changes over time and is not easy. Clubs that succeed should be rewarded via the points system but those that don't should not be punished.

Personally I hate seeing traditional clubs struggle due to demographics.

I am no Deer Park lover, in fact their arrogance whilst clearly pushing boundaries did and continues to do then no favours and would have loved to see them fail.

But not to the extent it kills the club and not to the extent it makes them non competitive. 46 points should be the minimum. Pressure should be applied to the salary cap as best as possible though a $100k div one cap is a joke. Make this the base for all clubs and add extra points for those clubs who have not been competitive to ensure a strong div 1 otherwise there is a real possibility div 2 will be more competitive than div1.

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Most div one clubs don’t need 46 points …….the ones that do need more either have no juniors or are div two clubs that have come up

 

[lachy]

Most div one clubs don’t need 46 points …….the ones that do need more either have no juniors or are div two clubs that have come up

What you mean like Deer Park, St Albans, Sunshine, Point Cook and Yarraville 50% of the competition.

The comp has some serious issues. The main rival comp has 46 points as their base.

Only 3 of the Div 2 clubs have significant junior programs and one of those is fairly divided between a junior and senior club and demographics are changing in the growth corridor.

For the comp to thrive it needs to be of good quality and I am not sure why so many want to punish success and not focus more on helping clubs raise up to a higher level

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BlueJet]

It takes years to build a Junior program, it's why you start the groundwork immediately, rather than waiting until the chequebook option no longer becomes valid & complaining of being hard done by..

It's never good to see a community club struggle but surely a degree of schadenfreude is warranted, particularly after years of flouting the rules & openly talking s**t about other clubs on social media.
It's part of the reason that nobody, aside from ppl involved in the club or leader journos hold the club in a similar esteem to the likes of Vermont, Keilor etc.

 

[BEST OF EDFL]

It takes years to build a Junior program, it's why you start the groundwork immediately, rather than waiting until the chequebook option no longer becomes valid & complaining of being hard done by..

It's never good to see a community club struggle but surely a degree of schadenfreude is warranted, particularly after years of flouting the rules & openly talking sh*t about other clubs on social media.
It's part of the reason that nobody, aside from ppl involved in the club or leader journos hold the club in a similar esteem to the likes of Vermont, Keilor etc.

Junior participation is 99% of the time based on the demographic of the area .get in the rule world you people

 

[ROOS77]

What you mean like Deer Park, St Albans, Sunshine, Point Cook and Yarraville 50% of the competition.

The comp has some serious issues. The main rival comp has 46 points as their base.

Only 3 of the Div 2 clubs have significant junior programs and one of those is fairly divided between a junior and senior club and demographics are changing in the growth corridor.

For the comp to thrive it needs to be of good quality and I am not sure why so many want to punish success and not focus more on helping clubs raise up to a higher level

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Their main rival hasn’t won anything since 2012, I’d say 46 is fair.
Pt Cook and YSE most definitely deserve more points after their promotion.
I’m not sure how you think it’s fair that a seven time flag winning club deserve the same amount points as anyone, let alone promoted clubs.
That just creates a bigger gap between top and bottom.

 

[lachy]

Their main rival hasn’t won anything since 2012, I’d say 46 is fair.
Pt Cook and YSE most definitely deserve more points after their promotion.
I’m not sure how you think it’s fair that a seven time flag winning club deserve the same amount points as anyone, let alone promoted clubs.
That just creates a bigger gap between top and bottom.

I said a minimum of 46 points. YSE for example had 47 points this season and often played at or around that point and won 3 games. If the team coming up is to be at all competitive they should have 50 points. Both Point Cook and YSE have good junior programs but the really good juniors who make a difference generally go through the TAC system. The reason why the Altona's, Werribee Districts, Hoppers and up until recently Spotswood are able to play so many one pointers is not only their junior programs but the amount of players they have at the elite junior levels as well as VFL and AFL levels that come back to their clubs.

I understand the focus is on Deer Park in this discussion, and they built their 7 premierships in the first few years entirely legally it was only the later years this was an issue for debate, but from now on how are they, Sunshine and St Albans meant to put out high quality competitive teams if they have very few elite juniors to return to these clubs so each player is 4, 5 or 6 points? Because they won 7 premierships in a row, the last what will be 3 years ago by under a kick how do they replace talent? 3 player would take 15 to 18 points, even at 46 points they have to fit in 19 players with 28 to 31 points and you do not think this is overly restrictive?

It is fine to have anti Deer Park sentiment for their behaviour and actions, but reality is punitive decisions now will seriously weaken the strength and integrity of the competition in the next 5 years by setting a restriction too low that actually put the club in jeopardy and does not even compete with the competition next door that has a minimum of 46 points.

 

[WRFL Indentity]

I said a minimum of 46 points. YSE for example had 47 points this season and often played at or around that point and won 3 games. If the team coming up is to be at all competitive they should have 50 points. Both Point Cook and YSE have good junior programs but the really good juniors who make a difference generally go through the TAC system. The reason why the Altona's, Werribee Districts, Hoppers and up until recently Spotswood are able to play so many one pointers is not only their junior programs but the amount of players they have at the elite junior levels as well as VFL and AFL levels that come back to their clubs.

I understand the focus is on Deer Park in this discussion, and they built their 7 premierships in the first few years entirely legally it was only the later years this was an issue for debate, but from now on how are they, Sunshine and St Albans meant to put out high quality competitive teams if they have very few elite juniors to return to these clubs so each player is 4, 5 or 6 points? Because they won 7 premierships in a row, the last what will be 3 years ago by under a kick how do they replace talent? 3 player would take 15 to 18 points, even at 46 points they have to fit in 19 players with 28 to 31 points and you do not think this is overly restrictive?

It is fine to have anti Deer Park sentiment for their behaviour and actions, but reality is punitive decisions now will seriously weaken the strength and integrity of the competition in the next 5 years by setting a restriction too low that actually put the club in jeopardy and does not even compete with the competition next door that has a minimum of 46 points.

It it their choice to go out and recruit 5 and 6 point players though. You won't find sympathy for Deer Park anywhere and nor do they deserve it. They've made a rod for their back and now it's starting to bite.

 

[ROOS77]

I said a minimum of 46 points. YSE for example had 47 points this season and often played at or around that point and won 3 games. If the team coming up is to be at all competitive they should have 50 points. Both Point Cook and YSE have good junior programs but the really good juniors who make a difference generally go through the TAC system. The reason why the Altona's, Werribee Districts, Hoppers and up until recently Spotswood are able to play so many one pointers is not only their junior programs but the amount of players they have at the elite junior levels as well as VFL and AFL levels that come back to their clubs.

I understand the focus is on Deer Park in this discussion, and they built their 7 premierships in the first few years entirely legally it was only the later years this was an issue for debate, but from now on how are they, Sunshine and St Albans meant to put out high quality competitive teams if they have very few elite juniors to return to these clubs so each player is 4, 5 or 6 points? Because they won 7 premierships in a row, the last what will be 3 years ago by under a kick how do they replace talent? 3 player would take 15 to 18 points, even at 46 points they have to fit in 19 players with 28 to 31 points and you do not think this is overly restrictive?

It is fine to have anti Deer Park sentiment for their behaviour and actions, but reality is punitive decisions now will seriously weaken the strength and integrity of the competition in the next 5 years by setting a restriction too low that actually put the club in jeopardy and does not even compete with the competition next door that has a minimum of 46 points.

It will take a few years for YSE and PC junior program to kick in at senior level, but it will happen.
Surely you’re not implying DP and St. Albans are non competitive with what’s in place ?
If DP recruit a few players that suck up a lot of their points, I’d say they should look at their recruiting strategy and get better at it.

 

[lachy]

It will take a few years for YSE and PC junior program to kick in at senior level, but it will happen.
Surely you’re not implying DP and St. Albans are non competitive with what’s in place ?
If DP recruit a few players that suck up a lot of their points, I’d say they should look at their recruiting strategy and get better at it.

St Albans and Sunshine have the 46 points as they should with limited juniors

YSE and PC if properly supported hopefully will have their junior program kick in at some time. Caroline Springs have Been in Div 1 since 2017 and have not made finals as yet and were not supported with appropriate points early which has set them back a fair bit

 

[lachy]

It it their choice to go out and recruit 5 and 6 point players though. You won't find sympathy for Deer Park anywhere and nor do they deserve it. They've made a rod for their back and now it's starting to bite.

Fine, clearly you want them punished and don't care where they are in 5 years. Your entitled to that opinion.

When you have not had a strong junior program for 10 years, therefore you have no ex juniors in the TAC, VFL or even premier of EDFL, your saying it is their choice to recruit 5 to 6 pointers, from where do you expect them to recruit quality 1,2, 3 or even 4 pointers of which at most they can barely do any if they have 41 or 42 points? Or are they just to be punished forever?

 

[Over The Post]

lol... several top ammos sides took to the park this year with well under 30 (including a 22), most of which would have no trouble disposing of a div1 side.

It's not just juniors, you have to get blokes to stick around the club and don't get in bidding wars for mercenaries.

 

[lachy]

lol... several top ammos sides took to the park this year with well under 30 (including a 22), most of which would have no trouble disposing of a div1 side.

It's not just juniors, you have to get blokes to stick around the club and don't get in bidding wars for mercenaries.

You do realise they had 14 1 pointers in their last premiership quite few who had been there over the 7 years and played with 43 points so sticking around isn't an issue and you seriously think recruits to the so called ammos often don't get well paying jobs!!!

I am not a Deer Park apologist. I though their behaviour and arrogance was really petty and poor and understand the resentment. I hope they do not make finals, and do struggle but not from artificial constraints brought in during circumstances that no longer exist and are now going to far.

 

[WRFL Indentity]

Fine, clearly you want them punished and don't care where they are in 5 years. Your entitled to that opinion.

When you have not had a strong junior program for 10 years, therefore you have no ex juniors in the TAC, VFL or even premier of EDFL, your saying it is their choice to recruit 5 to 6 pointers, from where do you expect them to recruit quality 1,2, 3 or even 4 pointers of which at most they can barely do any if they have 41 or 42 points? Or are they just to be punished forever?

Not true. I just don't see a point in continually rewarding them for neglecting a junior program. They are in a predicament of their own making.

You do realise they had 14 1 pointers in their last premiership quite few who had been there over the 7 years and played with 43 points so sticking around isn't an issue and you seriously think recruits to the so called ammos often don't get well paying jobs!!!

I am not a Deer Park apologist. I though their behaviour and arrogance was really petty and poor and understand the resentment. I hope they do not make finals, and do struggle but not from artificial constraints brought in during circumstances that no longer exist and are now going to far.

Sure sounds like you are.

 

[lachy]

Not true. I just don't see a point in continually rewarding them for neglecting a junior program. They are in a predicament of their own making.



Sure sounds like you are.

Most definitely am not an apologist actually support one of their fiercest rivals and would like to see them beaten with no excuses, just hope this forum could get back to actually discussing the competition and the upcoming season not continually prosecuting issues that will now be 3 to 7 years ago.

If you think the lack of a junior program is just their neglect, which it may be, the following teams are all struggling for juniors throughout the comp to various degrees:

Deer Park
Sunshine
St.Albans
Albion
North Footscray
Parkside
Glen Orden
Albanvale
Laverton
Braybrook
Sunshine Heights
North Sunshine

It is a big problem for the entire comp and at some stage we need to look at mechanisms other than just juniors to allow clubs to grow and be strong.

Anyway enough about Deer Parks points, how are all of the clubs looking for 2022

 

[Time to relax]

Most definitely am not an apologist actually support one of their fiercest rivals and would like to see them beaten with no excuses, just hope this forum could get back to actually discussing the competition and the upcoming season not continually prosecuting issues that will now be 3 to 7 years ago.

If you think the lack of a junior program is just their neglect, which it may be, the following teams are all struggling for juniors throughout the comp to various degrees:

Deer Park
Sunshine
St.Albans
Albion
North Footscray
Parkside
Glen Orden
Albanvale
Laverton
Braybrook
Sunshine Heights
North Sunshine

It is a big problem for the entire comp and at some stage we need to look at mechanisms other than just juniors to allow clubs to grow and be strong.

Anyway enough about Deer Parks points, how are all of the clubs looking for 2022

Sunshine have been rebuilding the junio

Most definitely am not an apologist actually support one of their fiercest rivals and would like to see them beaten with no excuses, just hope this forum could get back to actually discussing the competition and the upcoming season not continually prosecuting issues that will now be 3 to 7 years ago.

If you think the lack of a junior program is just their neglect, which it may be, the following teams are all struggling for juniors throughout the comp to various degrees:

Deer Park
Sunshine
St.Albans
Albion
North Footscray
Parkside
Glen Orden
Albanvale
Laverton
Braybrook
Sunshine Heights
North Sunshine

It is a big problem for the entire comp and at some stage we need to look at mechanisms other than just juniors to allow clubs to grow and be strong.

Anyway enough about Deer Parks points, how are all of the clubs looking for 2022

Deer Park are about to announce two ex AFL players on board. Poaching players from local clubs on big $$$$

Spell Me - no points exemption, should have sustained on the last appeal.

 

[BlueJet]

Junior participation is 99% of the time based on the demographic of the area .get in the rule world you people

Obviously.. not sure that I said anything to the contrary.
The point is that there are young people within cooee of Deer Park, the issue is that little, if anything has been done to win them over.
The rules in place in the 'real world' dictate that you need a healthy pipeline of 1 pointers to maintain a successful club.
With that in mind, there's 2 options before them, they have a crack or they simply put it in the too hard basket and throw in the towel.

 

[PubAmmo]

Sunshine have been rebuilding the junio


Deer Park are about to announce two ex AFL players on board. Poaching players from local clubs on big $$$$

Spell Me - no points exemption, should have sustained on the last appeal.

There in lyes the point, if they’re going to continually put big names on the books at big points and $ they will never get respect from anyone, let alone on THIS forum. It’s such a predicament for DP and others that don’t have an established junior system, as stated earlier it’s a long process and sometimes the finish line is too far away for some to see and want to see out. The deduction in points is to try and “even out” the comp, the lower ranked teams should be on higher points to allow for one to two more experienced players to be involved with building not only a club but a culture.