Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Smeg Head]

I agree with barreness, we should be giving Ukraine nukes so they can force Russia into a peace deal sooner. Move lives saved that way.

 

[jatz14]

Yes, he is that stupid.
Russia’s (Putin's) war aims are expansive. Russia has done this all through its history. Russia has a war-focused economy, where arms factories are working in three shifts round the clock.
It all depends on the support the west give to Ukraine.

Yeah.

People say that sanctions arent working, because the books look good.

But oil and gas income has fallen off a cliff, so where is this money coming from.

Its coming in the way of exports to Ukraine (seriously).

They are spending a huge amount of government money, on the military industrial complex, to keep the flow of men and materials to Ukraine going.

Thats what their economy is based on now. But there is a limit to how long they can keep that up.

Its why the parrots here and elsewhere are getting a bit desperate. You can claim the boats not sinking while bailing furiously, but at some point, the arms get tired.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I'm not sure. Attacking NATO basically means WW3. Would Putin be that stupid?

I think he must be stupid to an extent if he didn't think that would be consequences for attacking Ukraine.

 

[Mobbs]

Darłowo is a Baltic Sea port town in Poland, these M777 Howitzers are on their way to Ukraine. Anyone know who would have been most likely to have delivered them? [Supernova+ TG]
View attachment darlowo1.mp4

 

[Mobbs]

This is back 5 days ago, a truck stop in Rezszow, Poland (near Ukraine border) was shown hosting a bunch of Bradleys (that's what is said, I am not expert at recognising what's what) ready for transfer. [Supernova+ TG]
View attachment reszsaw1.mp4

 

[Rob R]

I think he must be stupid to an extent if he didn't think that would be consequences for attacking Ukraine.

No real consequences for when he attacked the first time, no consequences when his mate and bankroller Xi killed unarmed Indian soldiers, seized and fortified Philippines territory in the West Philippines Sea, seized land from Bhutan and the West didn't do more than talk when Putin threatened to attack. So why wouldn't Putin have thought the West would do nothing? Appeasement doesn't work.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mobbs]

10th Grader wears a military vest donated to a school for education purposes ... which includes a chevron with "Gruz 200" clearly stated. ("Gruz 200" or "Cargo 200" in English is military and pop slang in Russia for a war casualty, based on a code for the crate a body is returned in). [ASTRA]


The full text translates as "Cargo 200 - we are together". It's horrifying.

 

[Mobbs]

Drone Coalition raises nearly €500 million for drone purchases

Drone Coalition raises nearly €500 million for drone purchases

The Latvian-led Drone Coalition has already raised almost €500 million

mil.in.ua

The Latvian-led Drone Coalition has already raised almost €500 million. Latvian Defense Minister Andris Sprūds announced this in the social network X.

He noted that Denmark and the Netherlands contributed €400 million, Canada €70 million, Lithuania €3 million, and Latvia about €10 million.

Sprūds added that this is only the beginning, and negotiations with other countries are underway.

(full article at the link)

 

[Mobbs]

The accusation that Ukraine sells arms to mexican drug cartels demolished in one simple video:
View attachment IMG_9518.mp4

 

[Mobbs]

Buk-1 destroyed as it was preparing to fire:
(you may wish to mute the sound, it's really annoying music)
View attachment IMG_3968.MP4
Special Operations Forces destroyed Russian Buk-M1, which was preparing to launch missiles.

During reconnaissance operations in one of the hottest areas, operators of the 3rd Separate Special Purpose Regiment of the Special Operations Forces discovered an enemy Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system that was preparing to launch missiles.

“The Buk-M1 had no time to fire any missiles — it was promptly destroyed,” the military reported.

The Buk M1 is a multifunctional medium-range anti-aircraft missile system designed to destroy strategic and tactical aircraft, cruise missiles, helicopters, and other airborne objects.
From [Denys Davydov TG]

 

[Mobbs]

Residents of the Krasnodar region report the sounds of explosions. According to preliminary data, at about four in the morning, 9 drones were shot down over Slavyansk-on-Kuban.

After the drone attack, a fire started in the area of the bitumen plant. There is no official information yet.

UPD . The head of the Krasnodar region, Veniamin Kondratyev, said that more than 10 drones were suppressed in the region in the Slavyansky, Seversky and Kushchevsky districts. Drones tried to attack oil refineries and infrastructure. There were no casualties or serious damage. Operational services are extinguishing fires caused by a UAV crash.

[BAZA TG]

 

[Baldur]

I'm not sure. Attacking NATO basically means WW3. Would Putin be that stupid?

For political and deterrence reasons western talking heads highlight the underlined part of article 5 not the bolded part.

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."

Let us say that a year or so after the Ukraine war is over, news stories begin to appear as to the plight of Russian speakers in the Baltic states. Protests begin in Riga, they become violent. The Latvian government blames Russian spies. Then one morning the world awakes to discover the Latvian government is dead, a massive bomb. The new self installed pro-Russian government declares they have left NATO and invites Russia to send troops to restore order. Many of course suspect Russia planted the bomb, but there is no proof and the new government says it was stockpiles of ammo the old government had stored under the parliament.

Ask yourself if you trust Hungary to do more than send a polite letter or Germany and the US to send troops to fight russian’s. I have doubts that Biden or Scholz have the balls if Putin gives them a fig leaf to hide their fears behind. He is a spy, next time he will do spy things to give him and them a figleaf.

In their fear of WW3 they create the conditions that result in WW3, much like the leaders in the 30’s created WW2 by their efforts to avoid it.

 

[Mobbs]

For political and deterrence reasons western talking heads highlight the underlined part of article 5 not the bolded part.

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."

Let us say that a year or so after the Ukraine war is over, news stories begin to appear as to the plight of Russian speakers in the Baltic states. Protests begin in Riga, they become violent. The Latvian government blames Russian spies. Then one morning the world awakes to discover the Latvian government is dead, a massive bomb. The new self installed pro-Russian government declares they have left NATO and invites Russia to send troops to restore order. Many of course suspect Russia planted the bomb, but there is no proof and the new government says it was stockpiles of ammo the old government had stored under the parliament.

Ask yourself if you trust Hungary to do more than send a polite letter or Germany and the US to send troops to fight russian’s. I have doubts that Biden or Scholz have the balls if Putin gives them a fig leaf to hide their fears behind. He is a spy, next time he will do spy things to give him and them a figleaf.

In their fear of WW3 they create the conditions that result in WW3, much like the leaders in the 30’s created WW2 by their efforts to avoid it.

Precisely. Russia didn't simply invade Ukraine. They spend years upon years of manufacturing dissent with planted subversion tactics, gently upscaling disinformation programs etc etc, fabricated separitist ideologies/movements and a "breakway" mechanic, which eventually resulted in 2014 yonks later.

They chip away until the lines are more and more blurred (notwithstanding contrary efforts) and eventually they can try to state a case that they are not invading or attacking at all, instead it can be framed as a "civil war" in, say, Estonia for example. Rinse and repeat.

I DO think that the level of world opposition to Russia's current actions in Ukraine (much more pronounced than in Belarus, Chechnya, Georgia, Dagestan, Moldova, Abhkazia, Adjara, Ossetia and so on thru the litany of "acquisitions") MIGHT act as a deterrent to future actions at least in the near future. And after all, they still have Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc etc they can leak their evil into in the meantime. But just because those nations are not part of NATO (I don't think?) doesn't mean genocidal appropriation won't be any less heinous.

 

[barreness]

You realise that Russia thought this was would take a couple of weeks, right?

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeh they wanted to do a quick regime overthrow/highway of death thing. Failed hard, Russians don't do logistics lol

I think the strategy has clearly moved on from 2022

 

[barreness]

Russia doing the carrot, the stick, kidnapping, and luring foreign nationals to Russia to press gang them into it.

Because they are winning?

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I mean I was replying to a tweet about Russia offering cash bonuses for signing up, and the day before Ukraine removed consular assistance for fighting aged males outside the country

It's funny that it's luring when it's Russia and defending freedom when it's Ukraine. You've seen the footage of Ukrainians being pulled off the street and 'drafted' yeh

But yeh obviously Russia is using death row prisoners, private mercs, and all the rural kids they can find

 

[barreness]

I agree with barreness, we should be giving Ukraine nukes so they can force Russia into a peace deal sooner. Move lives saved that way.

You can tag bra

But yes nuclear deterrence does work, but this is the whole set up for war, Ukraine moving closer to EU/NATO and under that umbrella and distancing itself from Russia(though the Russians don't really offer much)

 

[barreness]

For political and deterrence reasons western talking heads highlight the underlined part of article 5 not the bolded part.

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."

Let us say that a year or so after the Ukraine war is over, news stories begin to appear as to the plight of Russian speakers in the Baltic states. Protests begin in Riga, they become violent. The Latvian government blames Russian spies. Then one morning the world awakes to discover the Latvian government is dead, a massive bomb. The new self installed pro-Russian government declares they have left NATO and invites Russia to send troops to restore order. Many of course suspect Russia planted the bomb, but there is no proof and the new government says it was stockpiles of ammo the old government had stored under the parliament.

Ask yourself if you trust Hungary to do more than send a polite letter or Germany and the US to send troops to fight russian’s. I have doubts that Biden or Scholz have the balls if Putin gives them a fig leaf to hide their fears behind. He is a spy, next time he will do spy things to give him and them a figleaf.

In their fear of WW3 they create the conditions that result in WW3, much like the leaders in the 30’s created WW2 by their efforts to avoid it.

This is narrow, no one tried appeasement in WW1 and it led to that shitshow for no reason. Many countries tried it in the lead up to WW2 for that very reason, and it still ended up in war. WW2 isn't a good argument to give up on diplomacy and negotiations for evermore

So let's just do WW3 because it's inevitable? I mean I guess you'll be right in the end but I've got a few good years left

 

[Smeg Head]

You can tag bra

But yes nuclear deterrence does work, but this is the whole set up for war, Ukraine moving closer to EU/NATO and under that umbrella and distancing itself from Russia(though the Russians don't really offer much)

I can, just more annoying to do on phone

 

[GhostofJimJess]

It's funny that it's luring when it's Russia and defending freedom when it's Ukraine.

Well, yeah recruitment semantics are pretty massively different, when for Ukraine it is an existential threat, and for Russia it is they who are the unprovoked aggressor.

 

[CD Xbow]

Precisely. Russia didn't simply invade Ukraine. They spend years upon years of manufacturing dissent with planted subversion tactics, gently upscaling disinformation programs etc etc, fabricated separitist ideologies/movements and a "breakway" mechanic, which eventually resulted in 2014 yonks later.

They chip away until the lines are more and more blurred (notwithstanding contrary efforts) and eventually they can try to state a case that they are not invading or attacking at all, instead it can be framed as a "civil war" in, say, Estonia for example. Rinse and repeat.

I DO think that the level of world opposition to Russia's current actions in Ukraine (much more pronounced than in Belarus, Chechnya, Georgia, Dagestan, Moldova, Abhkazia, Adjara, Ossetia and so on thru the litany of "acquisitions") MIGHT act as a deterrent to future actions at least in the near future. And after all, they still have Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc etc they can leak their evil into in the meantime. But just because those nations are not part of NATO (I don't think?) doesn't mean genocidal appropriation won't be any less heinous.

Yes, it was a decade of grey zone before it went red. Even then Mr P didn't admit he'd invaded and started the worst war in Europe since WWII. All backed up by long term influence operations in many countries encouraging dissent, social division, spreading misinformation while helping folks who are supportive of Russia into power/influence. It's actually a pretty brilliant plan except Mr P made one huge miscalculation. Execution is important.

Mobbs wrt M777 Howitzers only Canada, US, Oz and India have them. There are not a widespread weapon within NATO. There are a few more buyers but I don't think they have been delivered, if these are new stock then it could be ones manufactured for someone else being redirected.

 

[Mobbs]

Mobbs wrt M777 Howitzers only Canada, US, Oz and India have them. There are not a widespread weapon within NATO. There are a few more buyers but I don't think they have been delivered, if these are new stock then it could be ones manufactured for someone else being redirected.

Thanks CD Xbow ... I'm just trying to work out who's sending them. They were sighted near the Polish coast, and imo too far east to be in transit overland from say Germany. If they were flown in, they wouldn't be delivered so far in the north of Poland, so I am guessing they've been boated in via the Baltic Sea. I know Norway have been sending some resources that are intended for Poland, so maybe ... But I don't know these sorts of things at all so I'll leave it to the experts!

 

[Mobbs]

I can't be sure this is real but if so, the nets the RF were placing over vehicles to protect against drone attacks seem to be the basis for their new defensive measures for their fuel refineries and depots.


I would have thought it'd be cheaper to just paint silhouettes of fuel silos on the ground like they do with their planes.

 

[Zidane98]

I agree with barreness, we should be giving Ukraine nukes so they can force Russia into a peace deal sooner. Move lives saved that way.

Technically Ukraine has the right legally to repossess anything transferred to Russia under the Budapest agreement which includes Ukraine's former nuclear arsenal. The agreement has been breached in every way possible.

 

[Zidane98]

I can't be sure this is real but if so, the nets the RF were placing over vehicles to protect against drone attacks seem to be the basis for their new defensive measures for their fuel refineries and depots.
View attachment 1972926

I would have thought it'd be cheaper to just paint silhouettes of fuel silos on the ground like they do with their planes.

Pity they didn't use tyres. Would have made for a more spectacular inferno.

 

[Mobbs]

Another Russian air base struck.