Who care's they all accelerate away from the lights slower than a 1950s VW.
Acceleration might be fun but its irrelevant.
The war against renewable energy
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Acceleration might be fun but its irrelevant.
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Why are we subsidising fossil fuels now?
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Whattaboutism
Rooftop solar is subsidised. Much better use of subsidies than an electric car
And your point about fuel subsidies? Car lobby at work. My point exactly
- Mar 16, 2002
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Because it helps establish a new sector… FBT benefits will fade out in 2026… by then the EV uptake will be well on its way.
$57 billion in fossil fuel subsidy’s last year… why?
That IPA report is messy as hell.
They have a Tonne of coal producting 1.84 MwH. Loy Yang produces only 1.3MwH ( 24 hours X 3280MWh divided by 60000 Tonnes of coal per day ). That's because its burning Lignite and not Black Coal. ( Ignored by IPA report ).
Eraring uses 5.2 million Tonnes of black coal per year for 11 million MWh of electricity. So thats 2.1 MwH per tonne.
Kogan Creek makes 5409 GWH per year and uses 2.8 million tonnes of coal per year. So thats 1.93 MwH per tonne.
So IPA's value of 1.84 is lazy, because the actual factors are available, but its fairly representative of black coal. ( Latrobe Valley's lignite an exception. ). The 60% mentioned earlier is not a factor.
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They have Solar at 0.0037Ha per MwH ( annual ).
Darlington Point (NSW ) solar farm has 809 Ha, and produces 685GWH per year. So that's 0.001Ha/MWH
IPA have overestimated the amount of land by nearly 4 times that in actual operating solar farms.
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Then it goes a bit crazy, they are talking about replacing energy that we currently export, Coal ( coking and for burning ) and Gas.
That's just made up garbage. We will not be exporting electricity to China from our solar farms. Complete and utter crap based on a throw away line by Albanese. If anything, this report highlights how stupid Australia is for throwing away its resources to line a few rich peoples pockets.
The "paper" is not worth the pixels on my screen IMO.
NOTE: it is correct, that if we phase out gas we will need the electricity to cover it, and if we phase out petrol/diesel, we will need the electricity to cover it.
They have a Tonne of coal producting 1.84 MwH. Loy Yang produces only 1.3MwH ( 24 hours X 3280MWh divided by 60000 Tonnes of coal per day ). That's because its burning Lignite and not Black Coal. ( Ignored by IPA report ).
Eraring uses 5.2 million Tonnes of black coal per year for 11 million MWh of electricity. So thats 2.1 MwH per tonne.
Kogan Creek makes 5409 GWH per year and uses 2.8 million tonnes of coal per year. So thats 1.93 MwH per tonne.
So IPA's value of 1.84 is lazy, because the actual factors are available, but its fairly representative of black coal. ( Latrobe Valley's lignite an exception. ). The 60% mentioned earlier is not a factor.
------
They have Solar at 0.0037Ha per MwH ( annual ).
Darlington Point (NSW ) solar farm has 809 Ha, and produces 685GWH per year. So that's 0.001Ha/MWH
IPA have overestimated the amount of land by nearly 4 times that in actual operating solar farms.
--------
Then it goes a bit crazy, they are talking about replacing energy that we currently export, Coal ( coking and for burning ) and Gas.
That's just made up garbage. We will not be exporting electricity to China from our solar farms. Complete and utter crap based on a throw away line by Albanese. If anything, this report highlights how stupid Australia is for throwing away its resources to line a few rich peoples pockets.
The "paper" is not worth the pixels on my screen IMO.
NOTE: it is correct, that if we phase out gas we will need the electricity to cover it, and if we phase out petrol/diesel, we will need the electricity to cover it.
I don't trust that figure.
Example.
Our fuel is heavily taxed. The premise when it was introduced was so that roads could be built and maintained. Fair enough.
Those who do not use the roads are able to get it without the tax.
Not a subsidy.
Taking a commodity and taxing most of it is not subsidising the industry.
Removing the tax for some people is not subsidising the industry.
Some of the rest of it is probably valid, but when i see that example, i don't trust their reporting in general, and its a lot of work to go through and separate the facts from the fiction.
But removing the tax from something can never be the same as a subsidy.
EV's are not a new "sector", they are the same dealers selling the same brands of cars ( sometimes with different badges ). A factory in china builds electric ones, another factory builds ICE ones. They put them all on boats and sell them to our "Car Shops".
If they are cheaper they will establish themselves.
I guarantee that if an EV was the cheapest car on the market they would sell like hotcakes.
- Mar 16, 2002
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EV’s to be viable need investment in charging stations etc… increasing EV sales increases the need for these investments…
BYD make no ICE cars and has slashed the price of its cars and is in mass production… next 2-3 years will see EV demand explode.
Tesla make no ICE cars and are about to release a car at $25k US…
Toyota has delayed the release of its battery and will probably be dead in 5-10 years… watch there share price crumble..
- Mar 16, 2002
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So removing tax from EVs is not a subsidy??????
BYD used to, they just stopped. They were established in 2003. They went electric fairly early Most of the Chinese brands that are new to Australia are fairly long established.
Tesla
a) Tesla are kind of unique in their business model, which may still fail.
b) I can't believe anyone still believes things that Elon is "gunna do".
c) $25K $US will blow out to $40+ in Australia. The same price as a RAV4 ( $US24 000 over there ).
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/04/tesla-scraps-its-plan-for-a-25000-model-2-ev/ ( who knows ).
Toyota.
Its your opinion. I'd rather have my hands on Toyota shares than Tesla shares. "Their Shares".
The electric stuff is the easy part, making cars is the hard part, Toyota are good at it.
Not that i particularly like Toyota's to own, but i can't help but admire their competence.
- Mar 16, 2002
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Bugger all rebates available now….
Which states and territories still have government incentives for electric cars?
We go through which states still offer rebates and incentives on electric vehicles in Australia!
Bugger all rebates available now….
Which states and territories still have government incentives for electric cars?
We go through which states still offer rebates and incentives on electric vehicles in Australia!www.drive.com.au
Reduced registration? Not really a subsidy i guess. Light cars have cheaper registration than trucks, but they aren't considered subsidised.
Commercial costs more but i always assumed that was the insurance component ( wonder how privately registered Uber drivers get on if they cause an accident ).
- Mar 16, 2002
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You made out EVs are only viable because of subsidies … that’s far from true.
I met a retired couple today with an EV… the only time they go to a petrol station now is to pump the tyres up.. excess solar powers their car..
You can get second hand Leafs from Japan for under $20k delivered… with plenty left on the battery ..
Second hand EV prices are falling and will allow more people into EVs.
- Nov 10, 2022
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Wasn't me who started talking about subsidies.
I disagreed that EV's were cheaper , they aren't.
I wouldn't stake Australia's future on grey imports either, and maybe even EV's need to be able to get parts and things from a dealer, grey imports can be ok, but they can be kind of special to deal with for parts and service.
If you only drive around 40km/day ( as someone pointed out, the average ), it'll take 7kwh or so to charge your car.
If you're retired those electric plans with free mid-day electricity probably make sense. But they are dinky little companies who charge more during other times.
You can't get them for small commercial electricity plans yet.
But as we develop a mid-day glut of solar i think there will be pressure to introduce mid-day off peak rates in general.
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- Mar 16, 2002
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My mistake…
Grey imports have been important because of the lack of choice and cheaper options… this is about to change massively in the next 1-3 years.
Advancements in battery technology will also drive down the second hand market (which is tiny at the moment).
Batteries are now being produced that will have over 1000km range and a life close to 1.5 million kilometres, that’s pretty much game over for ICE cars.
These cars will also be able to power the house.
CATL launches new EV battery with close to a 1 million mile, 15-year lifespan
Leading EV battery maker CATL released its new breakthrough battery pack with up to a nearly 1 million mile (1.5...
electrek.co
My mistake…
Grey imports have been important because of the lack of choice and cheaper options… this is about to change massively in the next 1-3 years.
Advancements in battery technology will also drive down the second hand market (which is tiny at the moment).
Batteries are now being produced that will have over 1000km range and a life close to 1.5 million kilometres, that’s pretty much game over for ICE cars.
These cars will also be able to power the house.
CATL launches new EV battery with close to a 1 million mile, 15-year lifespan
Leading EV battery maker CATL released its new breakthrough battery pack with up to a nearly 1 million mile (1.5...
Around 2000 cars annually ( Grey Imports ) is hardly important, and those stuck with them have a car with no dealers and no convenient source of spare parts.
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It will be alot worse for those stuck with petrol cars unable to afford to drive them… because of fuel prices …
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More a case of whether fuel stops can afford to stay open. Folk Might get sick of queuing.
I recon it will be decades before it happens all over the world.
And commercial transport? Guvments are not really looking too hard here even though it’s half the emissions from vehicles
For heavy transport to be electric i think that they will need to have generic batteries that can be quickly swapped.
Batteries for trucks will need to be huge, and even fast charging will take too long.
I'd have thought that something like this could revolutionise the courier industry, but it seems they are no longer available and are rare as hens teetch.
Perhaps the range ( quoted 300, real life around 200km ) is not quite enough. A parcel delivery courier probably covers up to 500km in 8 hours and they probably get a bit of overtime too.
2021 BYD T3: Australia's cheapest electric vehicle now on sale from $35,855 drive-away
The 2021 BYD T3 is now officially on sale in Australia, priced from $35,000 before on-road costs.
There are heavier trucks available, Volvo have a good range, and with a a range of up to 500km, they could replace many of the vehicles we see in the city.
I'm not sure there is a good solution for the ones we see on the interstate freeways yet.
In Europe they are saying that 2% of the Vehicles on the road are "Heavy Vehicles" but those are responsible for 30% of the Emissions.
- Nov 10, 2022
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For heavy transport to be electric i think that they will need to have generic batteries that can be quickly swapped.
Batteries for trucks will need to be huge, and even fast charging will take too long.
I'd have thought that something like this could revolutionise the courier industry, but it seems they are no longer available and are rare as hens teetch.
Perhaps the range ( quoted 300, real life around 200km ) is not quite enough. A parcel delivery courier probably covers up to 500km in 8 hours and they probably get a bit of overtime too.
2021 BYD T3: Australia's cheapest electric vehicle now on sale from $35,855 drive-away
The 2021 BYD T3 is now officially on sale in Australia, priced from $35,000 before on-road costs.
There are heavier trucks available, Volvo have a good range, and with a a range of up to 500km, they could replace many of the vehicles we see in the city.
I'm not sure there is a good solution for the ones we see on the interstate freeways yet.
In Europe they are saying that 2% of the Vehicles on the road are "Heavy Vehicles" but those are responsible for 30% of the Emissions.
Weight is the biggest drawback for battery storage in mobile applications. In a car you are dragging around more weight but it’s only hurting the roads and you aren’t even cintypributing to the repairs
In commerce weight is $$$$$
Guvments should be putting more effort in here cos these diesel trucks are also polluting residential areas several hours a day.
