The war against renewable energy

[SaintsSeptember]

It can be hard to get your head around the scales.
Around 5 Acres of land is needed for a 1 MW solar farm. It only produces 1MW under maximum solar conditions.

A Tesla Semi "fast charger" will need 1MW for up to an hour.
So 5 Acres of solar panels could charge an average ( more in summer , less in winter ) of 4 trucks a day.

Tesla Semi versus other electric trucks - PTOLEMUS

Tesla claims the Semi will provide substantial features in comparison to the price of the vehicle, we analyze this claim...

www.ptolemus.com

By comparison , this is what 1MW of gas generation looks like.

1MW Compact Generator

World's first 1MW Compact Generator that can be transported by air freight or helicopter, or installed for use in a 20' ISO container. Pompano Beach, FL

turbinepowersolutions.com

 

[swingdog]

Surely, it'll be hydrogen fuel for heavy vehicles, much like it'll be for larger aircraft.

 

[nut]

Why do you think petrol will go up in price. Unless they tax the s**t out of it, supply/demand suggests it will go down.

Because when have they gone down?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Because when have they gone down?

During Covid = times of low demand.

 

[peetoo]

It can be hard to get your head around the scales.
Around 5 Acres of land is needed for a 1 MW solar farm. It only produces 1MW under maximum solar conditions.

A Tesla Semi "fast charger" will need 1MW for up to an hour.
So 5 Acres of solar panels could charge an average ( more in summer , less in winter ) of 4 trucks a day.

Tesla Semi versus other electric trucks - PTOLEMUS

Tesla claims the Semi will provide substantial features in comparison to the price of the vehicle, we analyze this claim...

www.ptolemus.com

By comparison , this is what 1MW of gas generation looks like.

1MW Compact Generator

World's first 1MW Compact Generator that can be transported by air freight or helicopter, or installed for use in a 20' ISO container. Pompano Beach, FL

turbinepowersolutions.com

What’s the sq acreage of all the road reservations?

 

[peetoo]

Because when have they gone down?

Right now, as often as they go up. I reckon 40-50c peaks to trough

 

[nut]

Right now, as often as they go up. I reckon 40-50c peaks to trough

Long term trends?

The cost of producing electricity is falling, with some people predicting usage prices will eventually be close to zero… like what happened to mobile phone plans… One day you will just pay for a power plan that includes a set amount of power like data on a mobile plan.

Meanwhile the historical price of petrol will see it continue to rise…

It’s already happening, with some companies offering free power usage periods, like Ovo’s free power between 11am and 2pm.

Electric dirt motorbikes are becoming a huge market.

 

[nut]

During Covid = times of low demand.

That’s hardly a trend.

 

[CD Xbow]

I was going to post this in the science board but no one goes there and this could be an important new tech. It's an Australian invention from UQ that sucks up CO2 and generates electricity. I have been very sceptical about current carbon capture technologies basically because they chew through energy and are inefficient. This one is completely different.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/qld-uq-researchers-develop-carbon-capture-device/103736758
Early days and we will have to wait and see if the tech can scale up.

 

[barreness]

I was going to post this in the science board but no one goes there and this could be an important new tech. It's an Australian invention from UQ that sucks up CO2 and generates electricity. I have been very sceptical about current carbon capture technologies basically because they chew through energy and are inefficient. This one is completely different.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/qld-uq-researchers-develop-carbon-capture-device/103736758
Early days and we will have to wait and see if the tech can scale up.

Yeh I saw this, immediately I think bullshit and the diagram is not convincing me. Oxidised carbon is very stable, all sorts of entropy in the way of taking it out of the atmosphere, at an energy gain......nahhhhhh. Maybe it can absorb a very limited amount and then stops? This is on the level of cold fusion if it actually works so I'm very sceptical

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That’s hardly a trend.

That's ok, electric vehicles are only a niche now too.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeh I saw this, immediately I think bullshit and the diagram is not convincing me. Oxidised carbon is very stable, all sorts of entropy in the way of taking it out of the atmosphere, at an energy gain......nahhhhhh. Maybe it can absorb a very limited amount and then stops? This is on the level of cold fusion if it actually works so I'm very sceptical

The little video is a joke , and there is no information at all about the process.

OK CO2 goes in, where does the energy come from? If its turned into Carbon and Oxygen, it should be absorbing energy.
For Example CO + CO + O2 can produce CO2 +CO2 + energy.

 

[peetoo]

Right now, as often as they go up. I reckon 40-50c peaks to trough

I saw this in 2 hours Saturday morning

 

[peetoo]

How loud does the question need to be asked? Until it’s answered

Seems like albos pre election promise of cheaper power could be met two or three fold

Why have power bills skyrocketed when wholesale electricity keeps getting cheaper?

The wholesale price of electricity in Australia is three times cheaper than it was two years ago, according to new data from Australia's energy regulator, but retailers are still jacking up their prices.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

How loud does the question need to be asked? Until it’s answered

Seems like albos pre election promise of cheaper power could be met two or three fold

Why have power bills skyrocketed when wholesale electricity keeps getting cheaper?

The wholesale price of electricity in Australia is three times cheaper than it was two years ago, according to new data from Australia's energy regulator, but retailers are still jacking up their prices.

www.abc.net.au

Its all about paying off the capital costs mixed with supply and demand.
Capital costs of building more solar, building more wind, even building more non-renewables.

Does that average include "volume" or just spot prices?

While households and commercial customers can't get the super cheap spot prices ( ok there are some plans with free hours, each day, but they make up for it on the rest of their rates. ) they are also sheltered from getting charged through the nose at times when there is no wind or solar , and the wholesale rate is through the roof.

 

[CD Xbow]

Toyota have been laggards with EVs, while being one of the leaders with hybrids. I just saw this about an ammonia powered ice engine developed by Toyota. Ammonium engines have had a few problems with low combustion efficiency, ammonia escape, and high N2O emissions. Perhaps Toyota may have solved the combustion efficiency problem, but it's not clear about ammonia escape or N20 emissions.

The end of hydrogen is this new ammonia engine: 90% lower emissions and freezing temperatures - ECONews

The new ammonia engine could put an end to hydrogen: 90 % lower emissions and frezing temperatures with this invention

www.ecoticias.com

This is an engineering paper for the scholars which I haven't finished reading. It suggests they may be more suitable for large engines in ships or powerplants. It points out there are difficulties in storing and handling Ammonia.

Ammonia as Green Fuel in Internal Combustion Engines: State-of-the-Art and Future Perspectives

Ammonia (NH3) is among the largest-volume chemicals produced and distributed in the world and is mainly known for its use as a fertilizer in the agricultural sector. In recent years, it has sparked interest in the possibility of working as a high-quality energy carrier and as a carbon-free fuel...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[nut]

How loud does the question need to be asked? Until it’s answered

Seems like albos pre election promise of cheaper power could be met two or three fold

Why have power bills skyrocketed when wholesale electricity keeps getting cheaper?

The wholesale price of electricity in Australia is three times cheaper than it was two years ago, according to new data from Australia's energy regulator, but retailers are still jacking up their prices.

www.abc.net.au

Prices will drop dramatically when these shock events are reduced .. ..

First of 2,600 battery units arrive for installation at Australia's biggest grid "shock absorber" | RenewEconomy

The first shipment of 2,600 battery units for the giant Waratah Super Battery have arrived in Australia and are being shipped to the project site at the now shuttered Munmorah coal-fired power station.

reneweconomy.com.au

 

[peetoo]

Don’t even need batteries for storage. Intelligent use of building climate systems can contribute

Rethinking Energy Storage in Commercial Buildings: A Dive into Batteries vs. Thermal Systems

Energy storage in buildings is not just about keeping the lights on! The debate between battery energy storage and thermal energy storage is heating up, especially in the realm of commercial buildings. ð¢ð¡ Did you know that batteries, though essential for backup power (think elevators ð and comput

www.linkedin.com

When we drop gas at home, getting reverse cycle and solar together I want to be able to have a system which can maximise this. It seems this aspect needs to mature before you buy a ‘fit and forget’ system

 

[nut]

Its all about paying off the capital costs mixed with supply and demand.
Capital costs of building more solar, building more wind, even building more non-renewables.

Does that average include "volume" or just spot prices?

While households and commercial customers can't get the super cheap spot prices ( ok there are some plans with free hours, each day, but they make up for it on the rest of their rates. ) they are also sheltered from getting charged through the nose at times when there is no wind or solar , and the wholesale rate is through the roof.

The spot price + about 18cents = the wholesale price …
Renewables are pushing the spot price down during the day … and sometimes it is even negative.

 

[nut]

Tesla cuts prices again

Tesla slashes Australian prices of its best selling EVs for second time in a month

Tesla's latest price cuts make Australia's best-selling EVs cheapest ever.

thedriven.io

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Tesla cuts prices again

Tesla slashes Australian prices of its best selling EVs for second time in a month

Tesla's latest price cuts make Australia's best-selling EVs cheapest ever.

thedriven.io

$3000 isn't the reason they aren't selling.

Its lack of infrastructure NOW.

 

[Kram]

I wouldn't mind one but yeah not at $61+k..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I wouldn't mind one but yeah not at $61+k..

around 15 years ago , i bought the cheapest car i could buy to drive to work each day.
It cost $13000 and its still going with minimal upkeep ( knock on wood ) but my son is driving it now.
I don't want to spend $61 000 to fulfil that role.

Having just one car often precludes an electric car.

If i could buy a new car tomorrow a Mitsubishi hybrid seems a good choice.

 

[Kram]

around 15 years ago , i bought the cheapest car i could buy to drive to work each day.
It cost $13000 and its still going with minimal upkeep ( knock on wood ) but my son is driving it now.
I don't want to spend $61 000 to fulfil that role.

Having just one car often precludes an electric car.

If i could buy a new car tomorrow a Mitsubishi hybrid seems a good choice.

Yeah I bought a Corolla around the same price 11 years ago and it's still going strong after only 1 repair, a new clutch. If I had to right now I would replace it with another one but a hybrid. An electric car would suit me I think but it's still a way of being worthwhile.

Living in a small town of around 2k I think there are about 3 or 4 Tesla's here.

 

[nut]

Don’t even need batteries for storage. Intelligent use of building climate systems can contribute

Rethinking Energy Storage in Commercial Buildings: A Dive into Batteries vs. Thermal Systems

Energy storage in buildings is not just about keeping the lights on! The debate between battery energy storage and thermal energy storage is heating up, especially in the realm of commercial buildings. ð¢ð¡ Did you know that batteries, though essential for backup power (think elevators ð and comput

www.linkedin.com

When we drop gas at home, getting reverse cycle and solar together I want to be able to have a system which can maximise this. It seems this aspect needs to mature before you buy a ‘fit and forget’ system

Spit systems are a no brainer.. most importantly for heating.

I’d highly recommend getting a battery installed at same time, if you get solar.

In 2019 I paid $8,200 for an 8.6kw solar system.
5 weeks ago I paid $22,000 for another 6.5kw of solar and a 19.2kw battery
My Total now is 15kw solar and 19.2 battery
Total cost $30,000… you would get a much better deal now.


Last year I imported 4700kws (13kw per day) from the grid, even though I already had solar. that’s $1880 worth @$.40 a kw..

My total consumption was 9700 kw at @ $.40 = $3880
My day rate is $1.77

Currently, 6 weeks before the shortest solar day of the year im
Making $3 a day profit after day rate. My conservative estimate is $4 a day over 365 is $1460.
I’m getting 15cents FIT with Engie in nsw. I’m not importing anything from the grid and don’t imagine importing anything other than maybe 5-6 days a year..

So $30200 \ ($3880 + $1460)
30200/5340. = payback in 5.6 years.

Getting a battery that is controllable is important… I’m losing about a $1 a day because it charges in the morning instead of during the middle of the day.
I’m now trying to learn about Home Assistant automation which can help with battery control.

I also have my entire house on black out protection.

If I was getting a system now and had $30k, I’d fill my roof with as much solar as possible North East west… and get an even bigger battery.
Sungrow is the brand I went for. 10 year 10,000 cycle warranty.

EDIT- I didn’t include day rate into payback calculations .. another $646

So $30200 \ ($3880 + $1460 + 646)

30200/5986. = payback in 5.045 years. Less if power prices increase.