The Pharmacist who assisted Dank to talk to ASADA?

[blue healer]

Wrong, it means the defence could be more damaging than the settlement terms

Is this not a contradiction of your earlier post that settlement wasn't an admission of guilt or that the EFC didn't have a reasonable defence against the charges?

I would suggest that, if a body has a reasonable defence against a charge, then said charge wouldn't have been levelled in the first place. That defence would have been offered during the investigation.

If the defence could have been more damaging than the settlement terms I would also suggest this is closer to an admission of guilt than a denial.

From the AFL's point of view the settlement addressed the most pressing need which was to retain the integrity of the finals programme. Their subsequent statements about the unlikliehood of infraction notices is possibly more a statement of hope than it is of certainty. It's a lay down misere that the only organisation that wants infraction notices less than the AFL is the Essendon Football Club.

 

[Gigantor]

Is this not a contradiction of your earlier post that settlement wasn't an admission of guilt or that the EFC didn't have a reasonable defence against the charges?

are people forgetting Melbourne got fined $500k for not tanking.
in these situations, where the AFL and club reach a negotiated settlement on something, it means nothing more than they have reached a negotiated settlement
its crazy anyone would try and make it mean anything more

 

[blue healer]

are people forgetting Melbourne got fined $500k for not tanking.
in these situations, where the AFL and club reach a negotiated settlement on something, it means nothing more than they have reached a negotiated settlement
its crazy anyone would try and make it mean anything more

If you'd bothered to quote, or at least read, my post you'd recognise the inferrence that the AFL's first priority was to ensure the integrity of the finals system. From there their priority becomes the integrity of the competition as a whole.

No way they want to see infractions issued because the competition as a whole is then discredited. I think that the AFL will be stoked if, in the end, the EFC's governance is the only thing that is brought into question.

The example of Melbourne is a good one, however, as I think there would be as many (if not more) non EFC supporters who think the club ran a systematic doping programme as there would be non Demon supporters who think that club tanked.

The actions taken by the AFL in both cases is designed to minimise the negative publicity attached to both.

I hold no stance in this on innocence or guilt by the EFC. Just a desire to see the truth come out and and appropriate action taken if guilt is established.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Essendon and the afl settled on far lesser charges than the original charges sheet. Looks like they were all rubbish since the AFL settled.

Yes, which is what I said, Essendon pleaded guilty to lesser charges

 

[FootyGeek]

The longer it takes for the final report to be released the worse it is for Essendon.

Every day is tick .. tock ... tick .. tock

 

[AM]

Fantastic to read that Dank will front ASADA. At long last the key witness will have to spill his guts. Things will really start to move from here.

 

[Gigantor]

Yes, which is what I said, Essendon pleaded guilty to lesser charges

But why would anyone attach any significance to that beyond the AFL convincing EFC to be part of a charade aimed at showing tough action against a perceived problem.

 

[Armchair Critic]

But why would anyone attach any significance to that beyond the AFL convincing EFC to be part of a charade aimed at showing tough action against a perceived problem.

What you see as "perceived" , I see as "actual"

 

[Gigantor]

What you see as "perceived" , I see as "actual"

It can only become actual when it is all proven.

 

[Armchair Critic]

It can only become actual when it is all proven.

No , that is BS. Read the Ziggy report, the problem is there. Drugs were used on players that are not approved for the intended purpose for which they were used.

Just because there have been no infractions , it does not negate the fact there was a major problem with the program

 

[Gigantor]

No , that is BS. Read the Ziggy report, the problem is there. Drugs were used on players that are not approved for the intended purpose for which they were used.

Just because there have been no infractions , it does not negate the fact there was a major problem with the program

Yes, I think everyone agrees there was a problem.
We still don't know how "major" it was (compared to other clubs), and we still do not know if the WADA code was contravened (which would definitely make it major).

 

[Thrawn]

Fantastic to read that Dank will front ASADA. At long last the key witness will have to spill his guts. Things will really start to move from here.

Huh? Were was this said?

 

[Armchair Critic]

Yes, I think everyone agrees there was a problem.
We still don't know how "major" it was (compared to other clubs), and we still do not know if the WADA code was contravened (which would definitely make it major).

Whether the WADA code was breached or not , it is a major problem when drugs NOT APPROVED for therapeutic use are used in a supplement program , not to mention prescription medicines from Mexico for a muscular dystrophy patient are used on players.

If the only qualifier for the program being a major problem for you is whether the WADA code was breached then I guess we can just agree to disagree

 

[Gigantor]

Whether the WADA code was breached or not , it is a major problem when drugs NOT APPROVED for therapeutic use are used in a supplement program , not to mention prescription medicines from Mexico for a muscular dystrophy patient are used on players.

If the only qualifier for the program being a major problem for you is whether the WADA code was breached then I guess we can just agree to disagree

different people will have different opinions on what constitutes "major"
heard today that there are no regulations regarding the use of tattoo ink, in fact, for the most part, no one even knows what's in there, many have severe allergic reactions to some types of ink,
but you can buy a tattoo machine and ink straight off the internet and start giving out tattoos
which is the major problem?
people will have different views, but it seems to me we know far more about AOD than we know about tattoo ink (and about one in seven Australians now has a tattoo)

 

[Laphroaig]

different people will have different opinions on what constitutes "major"
heard today that there are no regulations regarding the use of tattoo ink, in fact, for the most part, no one even knows what's in there, many have severe allergic reactions to some types of ink,
but you can buy a tattoo machine and ink straight off the internet and start giving out tattoos
which is the major problem?
people will have different views, but it seems to me we know far more about AOD than we know about tattoo ink (and about one in seven Australians now has a tattoo)

Great. Lets start injecting tattoo ink and see how the boys play.

 

[Armchair Critic]

different people will have different opinions on what constitutes "major"
heard today that there are no regulations regarding the use of tattoo ink, in fact, for the most part, no one even knows what's in there, many have severe allergic reactions to some types of ink,
but you can buy a tattoo machine and ink straight off the internet and start giving out tattoos
which is the major problem?
people will have different views, but it seems to me we know far more about AOD than we know about tattoo ink (and about one in seven Australians now has a tattoo)

What about AOD sourced from the black market in China.How much do we know about that?

http://www.themercury.com.au/austra...nti-obesity-drug/story-fnj3twbb-1226705612050

 

[Gigantor]

What about AOD sourced from the black market in China.How much do we know about that?

http://www.themercury.com.au/austra...nti-obesity-drug/story-fnj3twbb-1226705612050

probably not real good
presumably a law is being broken, where is the action on that front?
apparently body builders take it, plenty being sourced? who is doing anything about it?
what EFC used (if proven) is a drop in the ocean

 

[SBYM]

As opposed to the frantic gathering of select fragments gathered together to for a declaration of guilt?

If the hammer falls badly for the EFC, this is how it's gonna happen...enough 'fragments' pointing to a particular conclusion and it'll be curtains...the Armstrong saga taught us that.

The only way I see them getting out of this mess is if the gaps between the fragments are wide enough (very likely imo).

 

[The Dodger]

probably not real good
presumably a law is being broken, where is the action on that front?
apparently body builders take it, plenty being sourced? who is doing anything about it?
what EFC used (if proven) is a drop in the ocean

Nope not really. China don't recognise patents surrounding the manufacture of pharma. Especially if a company is not actually producing it themselves.

This IIRC is what started the investigation. People importing things, that unless Customs take a sample of and do significant testing wont know exactly what is coming in. But that not withstanding, pharma products being imported by people who do not have the authority to access or provide for use medications / pharma that is not approved by the TGA.

I mean even if you lie to customs and bring this stuff in...this is as bad as would get http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/may/21/australia.film

The question at the bare minimum has always been; why are they going near this stuff? Just ask Doc Reid what he thinks about it.

 

[Slax]

No, I'm suggesting the fact this was settled wasnt an admission of guilt, nor does it mean they didnt have a reasonable defense against charges

What EFC has been punished for is only running a suppliment program with little to no controls on it by those who should be responsible inside the club and bringing the game into disrepute.

EFC has not at this stage be charged with using illicit substances by the AFL. If ASADA in their final report, which will not be handed down until after the completition of all interviews (which is now going to include Dank), issue any infraction notices then EFC and certain officials of the EFC can be charged again by the AFL under different rules.

 

[mxett]

What EFC has been punished for is only running a suppliment program with little to no controls on it by those who should be responsible inside the club and bringing the game into disrepute.

EFC has not at this stage be charged with using illicit substances by the AFL. If ASADA in their final report, which will not be handed down until after the completition of all interviews (which is now going to include Dank), issue any infraction notices then EFC and certain officials of the EFC can be charged again by the AFL under different rules.

Correct. Yet people on here assume the fact Essendon accepted punishment from the afl means they agreed to all charges on the charges sheet, which is incorrect.

 

[Slax]

Correct. Yet people on here assume the fact Essendon accepted punishment from the afl means they agreed to all charges on the charges sheet, which is incorrect.

Totally agree, all Essendon admitted is that they mismanaged the suppliment program, nothing more and that is something that was never in question either from day 1.

 

[coryne]

Correct. Yet people on here assume the fact Essendon accepted punishment from the afl means they agreed to all charges on the charges sheet, which is incorrect.

No the EFC didn't accept guilt for charges related to the use of prohibited drugs as these charges were not addressed in the final settlement, which is why they are still in play as far as further punishments are concerned. If it is shown that prohibited substances were used then you would expect the club to be dealt with according beyond the sanctions which have has already been be applied to the EFC.

 

[I Rock]

Great. Lets start injecting tattoo ink and see how the boys play.

Has it help Collingwood?

 

[Argy]

Totally agree, all Essendon admitted is that they mismanaged the suppliment program, nothing more and that is something that was never in question either from day 1.

Agreed. Which leaves the way open for the AFL/ASADA/WADA to punish EFC for doping offenses. And, of course, for EFC to try to defend themselves.