QFA Div 2

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Thommo 42 said:
the other interesting thing was that that in the footy for fun dicisions, its still 22 a side, but only 16 on the field. the explanation was 'so kids get their hands on the footy more'. I would have thought with 25% plus of your team sitting on the pine, they will probably touch it less!
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With a team of 22 and 18 on the field the average match time is 3.27 qtrs per player. With a team of 22 and 16 on the field the average match time is 2.91 qtrs per player.
 
Thommo 42 said:
after Div 1, its called footy for fun and done geographically (like u8-11)
so div 2,3,4,5 are all just the one division now and its based on location only.
the obvious problem being that decent Div 2 sides now play Div 5 sides, which will create margins far greater than anyhing being experienced now and when you combined that with new penalties for large margins and its like they are creating a system that generates big margins, but then punishing them at the same time.
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One concern raised to me is if a club gets the numbers for 2 sides, neither a genuine Div 1 (Conference) side both will play in the Community Cup. These teams will have to be internally graded to be 'equal'. This could see 2 x half Div 2/3 plus half Div 4/5 teams. The evened out sides could then face 1 team clubs of full Div 2 teams and be soundly beaten. The result isn't the worst part, the concerning part would be the Div 4/5 type players in each side would really struggle to impact games and improve at a healthy rate. This could impact on their enjoyment and ultimately, player retention
 
Thommo 42 said:
I coached u11s this year. the team I had usually won by 80+ points before we started doing our best to manipulate the game as best we could. this actually resulted in a loss for these kids for the first time in 3 seasons, but that was fine. there was no ladder and no finals anyway and I din't think they were that good, just our local comp wasn't that strong and other clubs let kids play up - whereas we make them play in their own age group.

My son is a reasonably handy player and he didn't even want to play anymore most weeks as he found it boring. Conversely, he was playing Rugby union for his school and in 9 matches they had 4 draws, 4 close wins and a close loss. As a result, he is more interested in rugby now because he enjoys competition.

Now they have changed the age groups to u11.5, he is u11.5 again and has ZERO interest in playing at all.

All these issues used to be slightly overcome once you get to u12s as its graded. Yes some clubs play dead in grading, AFLQ just flatly gets grading wrong and some clubs recruit at a ridiculously young level and ruin age groups. Also, some clubs are just naturally strong.

However., across the board its far better. However, with just 2 grades now I can't see how its anything other than a disaster.

Believe me, when you are coaching a group of young kids who are pretty good - its very hard to manipulate a result once they get on top. You also upset people cause you are forced to put the gun players on the bench and in the back pocket for long periods of time, which isn't very fair at all on the kids.
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Yeah it is fair imo Thommo - too bad for the parent/kid who is used to playing midfield 100% of the game and picking up 40 possessions at will. Other kids pay the same rego $$ I imagine. In reality I will be so bold to say that your club isn't doing the kids any favours by not playing them up if that good. Is the only way kids improve and is a necessity for a variety of reasons.
I don't blame your son - that's a rubbish season. Kids don't like winning, they like competition. Unfortunately adults don't get this usually.
 

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ablett said:
How will kids excel if they are discriminated for succeeding.
Premierships will be soon be interpreted as shameful
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Rubbish - considering the best soccer players in the world (Sth Americans as a rule) don't even play in organised comps for the most part but in street ball small sided games as a kid I'm not sure why Aust kids are any different.
And tbh some premierships aren't worth the flag its printed on. Someone who has flown down from Poland for the first time could coach some junior sides to a premiership
 
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Wardy09 said:
One concern raised to me is if a club gets the numbers for 2 sides, neither a genuine Div 1 (Conference) side both will play in the Community Cup. These teams will have to be internally graded to be 'equal'. This could see 2 x half Div 2/3 plus half Div 4/5 teams. The evened out sides could then face 1 team clubs of full Div 2 teams and be soundly beaten. The result isn't the worst part, the concerning part would be the Div 4/5 type players in each side would really struggle to impact games and improve at a healthy rate. This could impact on their enjoyment and ultimately, player retention
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Nah - another fallacy. This logic is based on that every side in the comp has a list of bona fide kids at the level in it. EVERY junior team will be made up of a variety of levels and the grade that side will be put in will be based on what the favoured mix is. There will always be kids that are either slightly too good or slighty too bad to play at that grade - like ther is in senior footy mind you - and the job of the coaches are to ensure all these kids get something out of the season. The kid who is too good should be encouraged to play up where possible, play a different position, show some leadership characteristics that involve bringing others into the game. Its not actually that hard, we just like to pretend it is bc we want for a comp that suits OUR kids standard.
 
smy1305 said:
Nah - another fallacy. This logic is based on that every side in the comp has a list of bona fide kids at the level in it. EVERY junior team will be made up of a variety of levels and the grade that side will be put in will be based on what the favoured mix is. There will always be kids that are either slightly too good or slighty too bad to play at that grade - like ther is in senior footy mind you - and the job of the coaches are to ensure all these kids get something out of the season. The kid who is too good should be encouraged to play up where possible, play a different position, show some leadership characteristics that involve bringing others into the game. Its not actually that hard, we just like to pretend it is bc we want for a comp that suits OUR kids standard.
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I don't believe its a fallacy at all mate, with 2 teams in an age group you can imagine an intraclub consisting of 50 players. The difference between the older, bigger, more skilful 16 and the smaller, younger, less skilful 16 would be significant. Having some kids SLIGHTLY (as you put it) too good or bad is fine but teams consisting of 50% of smaller, younger players up against single team clubs of predominately bigger, more mature bodies isn't ideal. Even if it's not predominately a whole team of bigger, more mature players, the lack of graded teams, instead evened out sides, could provide more opportunity for size/skill mis-match in contests. I personally think grading is fine, as long as the League and Clubs commit to it honestly.
 
Yeah but the fallacy is that every team has 22 + kids who can play at the level. Imo if you have that scenario you talk about (quite common with some clubs) is divide the teams evenly, like selecting in the school yArd, and play those 2 sides in the highest grade they can.
I’m not for having a “premier” division at all, think this is a dumb idea, but has been a decision forced upon by idiot adults crying out for more competitive junior comps. Now we have teams travelling from the SC to bris play u14 footy. That’s ridiculous. Some parents will love it but imo the solution lies with the adults but no one wants to bite the bullet and call people out or clubs. Deny transfer of players, make clubs divide their teams into equal abilities, have larger comps with a flexible draw midway thru season depending on positions and competitiveness. It requires a bit of lateral thinking but in the end if ppl are worrying about premierships in 14s or below then they have t asked the kids why they are playing. In fact I would even say 16s. What we fail to recognise is that if the juniors participating only a handful (8 in each age group maybe) have any realhope if playing at the top level. The rest we just want playing for another 10 years to fill our community clubs.
 
smy1305 said:
Yeah but the fallacy is that every team has 22 + kids who can play at the level. Imo if you have that scenario you talk about (quite common with some clubs) is divide the teams evenly, like selecting in the school yArd, and play those 2 sides in the highest grade they can.
I’m not for having a “premier” division at all, think this is a dumb idea, but has been a decision forced upon by idiot adults crying out for more competitive junior comps. Now we have teams travelling from the SC to bris play u14 footy. That’s ridiculous. Some parents will love it but imo the solution lies with the adults but no one wants to bite the bullet and call people out or clubs. Deny transfer of players, make clubs divide their teams into equal abilities, have larger comps with a flexible draw midway thru season depending on positions and competitiveness. It requires a bit of lateral thinking but in the end if ppl are worrying about premierships in 14s or below then they have t asked the kids why they are playing. In fact I would even say 16s. What we fail to recognise is that if the juniors participating only a handful (8 in each age group maybe) have any realhope if playing at the top level. The rest we just want playing for another 10 years to fill our community clubs.
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SMY I take your point on most items in particular the number of coaches who rank their success on win/loss ratios and they peacock about when all they've done is inherit the best group of kids. Show me a junior/youth coach who doesnt have a big win/loss ratio and the kids still want to play round 18 every bit as much as round 1 and I'll show you a coach I respect more than the premiership coach.

But I also saw comments about kids playing in their own age groups or going up. Isn't playing up an age group just the same as changing clubs to gain an advantage in challenging the kid?
 
Well guys thanks for explaining that
Now
It's a clear as mud
So you could get Kenmore paying
Moorooka no disrespect to the chocks
But there 40 goals away from the top
Of div 2 OMG
AND div 1 is much the same ?

why is none of this on the AFLQ website
 
LaggingBehind said:
SMY I take your point on most items in particular the number of coaches who rank their success on win/loss ratios and they peacock about when all they've done is inherit the best group of kids. Show me a junior/youth coach who doesnt have a big win/loss ratio and the kids still want to play round 18 every bit as much as round 1 and I'll show you a coach I respect more than the premiership coach.

But I also saw comments about kids playing in their own age groups or going up. Isn't playing up an age group just the same as changing clubs to gain an advantage in challenging the kid?
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No I don't think it is Lagging - the kid remains at said club, might even wax between the grades if possible eg. play the better games in own age group, play up when playing against the lesser sides. Changing clubs has really poor optics imo to advance self. Why? Because no one can predict what the outcome will be in any case. The club that boy goes to, just by logic, has to drop off the 22nd best player to accommodate the new guy, a kid who might have improved out of sight over the past few years to get into this position, it creates an attitude among other clubs of "we will do that if club x is going to", it also creates a terrible environment of coaches coercing parents/players at very young ages to make a decision as to what is "best" for their progression. It also works on the assumption that the coaches of div 1 sides are better than the ones at the lower levels - I am yet to be convinced this is the case in juniors or senior footy tbh.
my thought is that if a kid wants to "challenge" himself then play in a weak side - that's where you will find out if you are any good or not. Or play up against older boys. Stick with your mates, enjoy it all and understand the development you are desperately wanting will come at rep level. Its funny though how parents/kids attitudes change at rep footy level and the greater number of good players around. Its only then that it becomes all about time on field, best position, etc but when back at club level its not the thought bc their kid is the one who is benefitting most. Human nature heh.
 
Qld footy fan said:
Well guys thanks for explaining that
Now
It's a clear as mud
So you could get Kenmore paying
Moorooka no disrespect to the chocks
But there 40 goals away from the top
Of div 2 OMG
AND div 1 is much the same ?

why is none of this on the AFLQ website
Click to expand...

they are talking about junior football.
 
smy1305 said:
It also works on the assumption that the coaches of div 1 sides are better than the ones at the lower levels - I am yet to be convinced this is the case in juniors or senior footy tbh.
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I think its definitely the case at Senior level. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard from players or parents who move their kid from any Div 2 or 3 club to any QAFL (or in some cases Div 1) club the level of shock they experience when it comes to training intensity, standard and structure.

100% agree at junior/youth level though. Some clubs just give a coaching gig to the first parent to put their hand up and it can result in equally good and/or poor outcomes. There is no way you can know that sending your 12 year old to any club that they will get better coaching and development than the next one. complete lottery.

Its funny though how parents/kids attitudes change at rep footy level and the greater number of good players around. Its only then that it becomes all about time on field, best position, etc but when back at club level its not the thought bc their kid is the one who is benefitting most. Human nature heh.
Click to expand...

excellent insight. The same parents who think its unfair their kid has to play back pocket for their club side so other kids get a go, want their kids getting a fair go in the midfield when it comes to rep footy when suddenly their kid is at the opposite end of the pecking order. Always been amusing to watch this phenomenon.
 
Yeah not sure still re senior footy Fan - definitely more organised and all the other factors you suggested - a lot of that is a consequence of more people helping. If we are talking pure footy knowledge and ability to impart/teach this then I'm not convinced.
 

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This whole junior footy sounds like it's going to blow up big time.
But don't worry lads history proves it won't last long.
The only time 16 a side should be played is if the other team is short and you even up.
Having coached kids for 20 plus years I can tell you it's hard enough to rotate 4.
Let alone 6.
If you think it's going to get the bottom tier kids more touches your delusional.
What it does is create space for fitter better kids to run amok.
With the new division's what you will find is that the div two sides will smash the div 4 and 5 sides.
All well and good to try and even it up.
Try telling the kids to take it easy on them.
Just not going to happen.
Afl has had a time of great growth and in twelve months I predict it will be going backwards.
Kids just don't enjoy themselves getting belted each week.
Not sure who comes up with this stuff but doesn't sound like they had any input from footballers.
You know the ones who know the game.
It's a competitive contact sport not sure you can change that.
But good luck I'll sit back and watch the cluster * unfold.
 
FAN THE MAN said:
13,000 surveyed apparently

Nobody has yet to identify one of those 13,000 people though!
Click to expand...
So your telling me 13000 people came up with this.
If that's the case we have a lot of very dumb people out there.
It's going to make the big clubs stronger and small clubs disappear.
I'm just so sad that this is where footy has gone.
 
outandabout said:
So your telling me 13000 people came up with this.
If that's the case we have a lot of very dumb people out there.
It's going to make the big clubs stronger and small clubs disappear.
I'm just so sad that this is where footy has gone.
Click to expand...
The so called elite clubs votes are worth more, I think a 100 times more
 
Thommo 42 said:
I coached u11s this year. the team I had usually won by 80+ points before we started doing our best to manipulate the game as best we could. this actually resulted in a loss for these kids for the first time in 3 seasons, but that was fine. there was no ladder and no finals anyway and I din't think they were that good, just our local comp wasn't that strong and other clubs let kids play up - whereas we make them play in their own age group.

My son is a reasonably handy player and he didn't even want to play anymore most weeks as he found it boring. Conversely, he was playing Rugby union for his school and in 9 matches they had 4 draws, 4 close wins and a close loss. As a result, he is more interested in rugby now because he enjoys competition.

Now they have changed the age groups to u11.5, he is u11.5 again and has ZERO interest in playing at all.

All these issues used to be slightly overcome once you get to u12s as its graded. Yes some clubs play dead in grading, AFLQ just flatly gets grading wrong and some clubs recruit at a ridiculously young level and ruin age groups. Also, some clubs are just naturally strong.

However., across the board its far better. However, with just 2 grades now I can't see how its anything other than a disaster.

Believe me, when you are coaching a group of young kids who are pretty good - its very hard to manipulate a result once they get on top. You also upset people cause you are forced to put the gun players on the bench and in the back pocket for long periods of time, which isn't very fair at all on the kids.
Click to expand...

Why don't you just him up in 12's? Kids are still allowed to play up an age group.
 
Thommo 42 said:
after Div 1, its called footy for fun and done geographically (like u8-11)

so div 2,3,4,5 are all just the one division now and its based on location only.

the obvious problem being that decent Div 2 sides now play Div 5 sides, which will create margins far greater than anyhing being experienced now and when you combined that with new penalties for large margins and its like they are creating a system that generates big margins, but then punishing them at the same time.

The other impact it causes is that talented kids all over the place will start moving clubs when they are 11, instead of 16-17.

the other interesting thing was that that in the footy for fun dicisions, its still 22 a side, but only 16 on the field. the explanation was 'so kids get their hands on the footy more'. I would have thought with 25% plus of your team sitting on the pine, they will probably touch it less!
Click to expand...

There's no division 1 either.
 
in terms of football relating to this thread. Redcliffe seem to be benefiting most from Sandgates QAFL departure. Pugs connection paying dividends that's for sure. add these guys to Redcliffes top tier they could press for finals. Points could be an issue
 
UnBiassed said:
in terms of football relating to this thread. Redcliffe seem to be benefiting most from Sandgates QAFL departure. Pugs connection paying dividends that's for sure. add these guys to Redcliffes top tier they could press for finals. Points could be an issue
Click to expand...
I would say they would be no chance of fitting them in. On top of the Aspley players that they have coming. They will have handy players in the two’s . Which they like anyway 😂
 
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