Picola & District Discussion 2023

[surprisepackage]

Well done waaia back to back
Very well drilled side took the game on and was never in doubt after quarter time.

Was very surprised with strathmerton besides probably the first 15 mins they never really fired a shot looked slow and seemed to be carrying a few players with injuries

 

[justanotherfootynut]

A bold and courageous decision | Midland Express

Spotlight on the most significant threat to the future of local football and netball

midlandexpress.com.au

Interesting read

 

[justanotherfootynut]

Well we’ll,

Been a bit of chatter on KDFNL thread from their GF day about which PDFNL clubs may or may not be to be looking seriously to the Murray District League

If it’s true then there might be a couple of chaps who might need a little ‘behaviour modification’ so as not to fall foul of the new officials they encounter

More than a dozen players cited from last week’s senior KDL grand final

A staggering number of players were cited in last week’s Kyabram District League senior grand final.

www.sheppnews.com.au

 

[Tandy]

A bold and courageous decision | Midland Express

Spotlight on the most significant threat to the future of local football and netball

midlandexpress.com.au

Interesting read

It's all just a way for the AFL to take money from people that they weren't able to previously. Alot of the time people in local leagues aren't able to get to AFL games due to commitments to their clubs or watch on tv on weekends, sometimes at all. That's money lost. Now they can take your money. Smart business by them because they don't really care.

 

[phantom man]

If the Murray District league gets up and Running How many likely Picola league teams would make the jump into the new league?

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Once a couple go, the rest will follow like sheep

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

If the Murray District league gets up and Running How many likely Picola league teams would make the jump into the new league?

4 left the league in 2018 with the same hope and being provided the same dream , of those none are now in the MFL , 2 have since returned and 2 ended up in the KDL .
There were numerous options on the table during that period including MFL Div 2 , KDL 2 divisions and a new AFLGM league .
The 2 clubs that returned were permitted entry to the league after making a commitment to the league, so wouldn’t expect any to leave .

 

[justanotherfootynut]

4 left the league in 2018 with the same hope and being provided the same dream , of those none are now in the MFL , 2 have since returned and 2 ended up in the KDL .
There were numerous options on the table during that period including MFL Div 2 , KDL 2 divisions and a new AFLGM league .
The 2 clubs that returned were permitted entry to the league after making a commitment to the league, so wouldn’t expect any to leave .

Would be very surprised to see Tungamah, Katandra, and Katamatite not joining Tocumwal and the KDFNL clubs mentioned in the new league, if not some another club or two as well.
Unless of course there is a change in direction within the league as far as affiliation and personal is concerned

IMO non-affliliation is not a negative and has allowed many positives for the league but do think it could still advance further seeing how other leagues run themselves independenty of a hub umbrella.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Would be very surprised to see Tungamah, Katandra, and Katamatite not joining Tocumwal and the KDFNL clubs mentioned in the new league, if not some another club or two as well.
Unless of course there is a change in direction within the league as far as affiliation and personal is concerned

IMO non-affliliation is not a negative and has allowed many positives for the league but do think it could still advance further seeing how other leagues run themselves independenty of a hub umbrella.

Who are the other leagues that are non-affiliated ?
What is the leagues direction as far as affiliation ?
All leagues have differing admin models and most that I’m aware have multiple people doing roles whether it be one doing football another doing netball .
The Picola leagues model has seemingly been to reduce workload upon volunteers and remain as cost effective as possible .
Sure the league hasn’t taken up live scoring , stats or contracted broadcasters as others have .
It was interesting to speak to some mutual people ( have interest or watch multiple leagues ) during and just post finals, on this issue and they felt
Others leagues have gone to far which has had the affect of with fewer supporters attending games which is financially hurting clubs as well as having to pay for it .
This doesn’t mean that opportunities shouldn’t be sought and open discussions had .
It’s pretty common knowledge the league is preparing for future change in personal within the league and has / is working on that transition process with the blessing and support of the people involved .

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Who are the other leagues that are non-affiliated ?

Definition-wise, I would personally separate "non-affiliated" and "non-hub members".

From memory, Murray, Picola and Riddell are not involved in regional hubs and AFL Gippsland provided no admin support and made all of its leagues run their own day-to-day affairs in 2023. Ovens & Murray also runs its own day-to-day operations in Fallon Street away from the hub office.

I know Picola is not affiliated but if I am not mistaken they are the only one and some of the above leagues are not fully independent and do have some sort of agreement or funding arrangement.

Outer East may have re-affiliated at some stage during 2023.

The Heathcote league is one to watch in 2024 as they are jack of all the shenanigans at AFLCV and the HDFNL president publicly called for the commission's board to resign in a recent radio interview.

Other leagues may well have had their eyes opened to the events in Central Victoria this year and taken note of Kyneton's comment that the affiliation fees at the hub-less Riddell league is roughly half of the Bendigo league partly because they are paying for only 2-3 staff there instead of 14 in the Bendigo office. Clubs and leagues may realise that the old way could well be the better way.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Definition-wise, I would personally separate "non-affiliated" and "non-hub members".

From memory, Murray, Picola and Riddell are not involved in regional hubs and AFL Gippsland provided no admin support and made all of its leagues run their own day-to-day affairs in 2023. Ovens & Murray also runs its own day-to-day operations in Fallon Street away from the hub office.

I know Picola is not affiliated but if I am not mistaken they are the only one and some of the above leagues are not fully independent and do have some sort of agreement or funding arrangement.

Outer East may have re-affiliated at some stage during 2023.

The Heathcote league is one to watch in 2024 as they are jack of all the shenanigans at AFLCV and the HDFNL president publicly called for the commission's board to resign in a recent radio interview.

Other leagues may well have had their eyes opened to the events in Central Victoria this year and taken note of Kyneton's comment that the affiliation fees at the hub-less Riddell league is roughly half of the Bendigo league partly because they are paying for only 2-3 staff there instead of 14 in the Bendigo office. Clubs and leagues may realise that the old way could well be the better way.

Don’t believe south east nor the remaining Metro Leagues have an ‘ affiliation agreement’ . Think it is termed a ‘ Funding agreement ‘ which basically means they have no obligation to deals which have been undertaken by AFL such as apparel .
Locally , there is enough noise to suggest it is likely KDL and GVL will become self administered sooner rather than later.

 

[the steam train]

4 left the league in 2018 with the same hope and being provided the same dream , of those none are now in the MFL , 2 have since returned and 2 ended up in the KDL .
There were numerous options on the table during that period including MFL Div 2 , KDL 2 divisions and a new AFLGM league .
The 2 clubs that returned were permitted entry to the league after making a commitment to the league, so wouldn’t expect any to leave .

Would be interested to know what level commitment was made and how binding it would be now seeing the came back to an affiliated league, IMO, if they, or any other PDFNL Club, decided to leave to go to an affiliated nothing could stop them.
Noticed discussion on Ky thread about clubs looking to leave doing so because of junior structures , if this was case why aren’t the PDFNL in the mix as a destination league. I would have thought if juniors was reason they would be looking at Picola as well. Makes me think it has a fair bit to do with travel, competiveness of clubs, governance and admin, and affiliation status.

If Picola league was going well these clubs would be looking to join and help the league split geographically again. This would save all the bullshit going on trying to create new league and bring some common sense to the regional structure of leagues.

A revamped “south east PDFNL” would roughly look like
Murch
Undera
Dookie
Shepp east
Katandra
Tunga
Katty
Waaia
Katunga/ strsthy/Rennie

Looks much like what Murray league is trying to do


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Nickedoff]

Would be interested to know what level commitment was made and how binding it would be now seeing the came back to an affiliated league, IMO, if they, or any other PDFNL Club, decided to leave to go to an affiliated nothing could stop them.
Noticed discussion on Ky thread about clubs looking to leave doing so because of junior structures , if this was case why aren’t the PDFNL in the mix as a destination league. I would have thought if juniors was reason they would be looking at Picola as well. Makes me think it has a fair bit to do with travel, competiveness of clubs, governance and admin, and affiliation status.

If Picola league was going well these clubs would be looking to join and help the league split geographically again. This would save all the bullshit going on trying to create new league and bring some common sense to the regional structure of leagues.

A revamped “south east PDFNL” would roughly look like
Murch
Undera
Dookie
Shepp east
Katandra
Tunga
Katty
Waaia
Katunga/ strsthy/Rennie

Looks much like what Murray league is trying to do


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Hopefully clubs from the PDFNL looking at making a move have clear air and not fear of retribution from the board.

 

[the steam train]

Hopefully clubs from the PDFNL looking at making a move have clear air and not fear of retribution from the board.

That is another issue clubs face, I think it’s clear from previous examples if clubs have open discussions on looking at other leagues they are suspended or otherwise


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[justanotherfootynut]

Would be interested to know what level commitment was made and how binding it would be now seeing the came back to an affiliated league, IMO, if they, or any other PDFNL Club, decided to leave to go to an affiliated nothing could stop them.
Noticed discussion on Ky thread about clubs looking to leave doing so because of junior structures , if this was case why aren’t the PDFNL in the mix as a destination league. I would have thought if juniors was reason they would be looking at Picola as well. Makes me think it has a fair bit to do with travel, competiveness of clubs, governance and admin, and affiliation status.

If Picola league was going well these clubs would be looking to join and help the league split geographically again. This would save all the bullshit going on trying to create new league and bring some common sense to the regional structure of leagues.

A revamped “south east PDFNL” would roughly look like
Murch
Undera
Dookie
Shepp east
Katandra
Tunga
Katty
Waaia
Katunga/ strsthy/Rennie

Looks much like what Murray league is trying to do


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

IIRC the comment was made by Grasscat that if the PDFNL was still split regionally then that would be the option they would have been persuing as it would be a hard sell to get their club who is located in the middle of their current league to accept travel up to the likes of the northern NSW clubs.

It would appear the success of the PDFNL 5ths comp is a feature that clubs looking at the Murray District league want to encompass and continue with as wasn't that mentioned for it to have under 11 grade of football?

On that note, how have you found not having that grade this last season Steam Train? did you find putting your younger in other competitions provided an acceptable alternative or created a level of disconnection from the main club?

Also with the re-split idea above where do you see Tocumwal sitting, as the MFL ops manager very publically from the onset of the proposal stated the main impetus behind wanting to establish a new district league under their umbrella was to find a better home for your club?

 

[the steam train]

IIRC the comment was made by Grasscat that if the PDFNL was still split regionally then that would be the option they would have been persuing as it would be a hard sell to get their club who is located in the middle of their current league to accept travel up to the likes of the northern NSW clubs.

It would appear the success of the PDFNL 5ths comp is a feature that clubs looking at the Murray District league want to encompass and continue with as wasn't that mentioned for it to have under 11 grade of football?

On that note, how have you found not having that grade this last season Steam Train? did you find putting your younger in other competitions provided an acceptable alternative or created a level of disconnection from the main club?

Also with the re-split idea above where do you see Tocumwal sitting, as the MFL ops manager very publically from the onset of the proposal stated the main impetus behind wanting to establish a new district league under their umbrella was to find a better home for your club?

Don’t have kids playing anymore but see the 5tvs Comp as a huge success, helps get the kids in early and creates the club and community culture lacking in GV.
Splitting league would require those KDL clubs on board and would solve the geographic problem with current structure. If this was to happen I reckon the ego’s and knives of some at PDL board level and Toc club level would need to be put aside because they clearly belong at district level 50/50 whether they go north or south.
The question still sits- why aren’t KDL clubs looking to leave and the pdl talking about getting this up, and if
They are let us know about it


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Don’t have kids playing anymore but see the 5tvs Comp as a huge success, helps get the kids in early and creates the club and community culture lacking in GV.
Splitting league would require those KDL clubs on board and would solve the geographic problem with current structure. If this was to happen I reckon the ego’s and knives of some at PDL board level and Toc club level would need to be put aside because they clearly belong at district level 50/50 whether they go north or south.
The question still sits- why aren’t KDL clubs looking to leave and the pdl talking about getting this up, and if
They are let us know about it


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The PDFNL had clearly resolved all issues with Toc at the time Toc chose to leave and it’s also very apparent that key Toc individuals had been wanting Toc to leave the PDFNL for some time.
The decision to leave the picola league was Toc’s decision not Picola leagues.
The reason the picola league may not be publicly advertising their wish to expand with everyone who wishes to join may have a fair bit to do with history . It might also be why a greater commitment was sought when Tungamah and Katandra re-entered.
Dookie and Shepp East’s initial entry ( Central Goulburn) came with plenty of angst from
clubs , including threats of de-affiliation , as did the entry of Toc and re-entry of Tungamah and Katandra .
The PDFNL board ( varying personal ) at the various times have backed the incoming clubs and came under plenty of fire from existing clubs .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

That is another issue clubs face, I think it’s clear from previous examples if clubs have open discussions on looking at other leagues they are suspended or otherwise


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It is a two way street with the clubs and the league they are affiliated to , having an obligation to each other .

 

[Whats the crack]

Sounds like there's a fair bit of steam behind the MDL getting up and clubs will soon publicly announce they've jumped???

 

[Nickedoff]

It is a two way street with the clubs and the league they are affiliated to , having an obligation to each other .

Sounds like there's a fair bit of steam behind the MDL getting up and clubs will soon publicly announce they've jumped???

If that’s true, it’s good to see.
Strong clubs looking to do what’s best for their future. No doubt a fair bit of pressure on the leaders of these clubs, hopefully no backlash against them from the league.

 

[Nickedoff]

It is a two way street with the clubs and the league they are affiliated to , having an obligation to each other .

If that’s true, it’s good to see.
Strong clubs looking to do what’s best for their future. No doubt a fair bit of pressure on the leaders of these clubs, hopefully no backlash against them from the league.

Also is MDL your guess for the league name? Murray Districts League?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

It is a two way street with the clubs and the league they are affiliated to , having an obligation to each other .

If that’s true, it’s good to see.
Strong clubs looking to do what’s best for their future. No doubt a fair bit of pressure on the leaders of these clubs, hopefully no backlash against them from the league.

It’s interesting that you support the individual clubs doing what is solely in their best interest yet condemn anything the league ( by extension the remaining clubs ) do in their collective best interests .

 

[A human male]

It’s interesting that you support the individual clubs doing what is solely in their best interest yet condemn anything the league ( by extension the remaining clubs ) do in their collective best interests .

Literally no mention of the league. Not sure why you feel the need to be defensive.

Clubs can and should do what's best for their futures, and each club will have and is entitled to their own opinions, and tarring clubs that stay or go with any brush purely on based league affiliation decisions is poor form.

Previous board and/or operations action in the PDFNL has rightfully left some clubs questioning whether or not this league is the right one for them, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be happening

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Literally no mention of the league. Not sure why you feel the need to be defensive.

Clubs can and should do what's best for their futures, and each club will have and is entitled to their own opinions, and tarring clubs that stay or go with any brush purely on based league affiliation decisions is poor form.

Previous board and/or operations action in the PDFNL has rightfully left some clubs questioning whether or not this league is the right one for them, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be happening

‘ The league ‘ was specified in the post for which I was responding .
The current operations personnel were in place when the clubs in question returned , whilst the president has been elected during that time and clearly by firstly applying and then accepting membership , the clubs entered into an agreement to accept the rules of the league.

Specifically in the KDL’s case do you think any consideration is being given to their remaining clubs , for what has openly been a reaction to accomodate Tocumwal who opted to leave and taken any and every measure to try to disrupt and defame the Picola league.

 

[A human male]

‘ The league ‘ was specified in the post for which I was responding .
The current operations personnel were in place when the clubs in question returned , whilst the president has been elected during that time and clearly by firstly applying and then accepting membership , the clubs entered into an agreement to accept the rules of the league.

Specifically in the KDL’s case do you think any consideration is being given to their remaining clubs , for what has openly been a reaction to accomodate Tocumwal who opted to leave and taken any and every measure to try to disrupt and defame the Picola league.

Clearly things need to be done to the letter of the law, and there are agreements and policies and procedures in place for all of those things. Most club people would understand this. But we've seen in Toc's instance (and the 4 clubs that left the PDFNL) years back that they will find a place regardless.

But its undeniable that the 2 most recent incidents (Toc, and Tungamah/Katandra) were handled poorly, by multiple parties (operations, board, and club in some cases). It's understandable that emotion gets in the way sometimes, most people are volunteers who care a lot, but there is room in the grey area for proper amicable constructive conversation that on face value didn't occur.

As I mentioned, for a million reasons some clubs (not all) have been put off by either PDFNL or KDL administration, and are exploring their best options.

I don't think anyone would want to see a club fall over, whether in your league or not, so this constant threat of fear or repercussions, or accusations of disruption or defamation is really not useful to anyone