Picola & District Discussion 2023

[MortlockWatcher]

They were told about three weeks ago that AFL Gippsland were withdrawing administrative support for them effective immediately. Subsequently, the WGFNC has advertised the role of Operations Manager on its Facebook page. A second role, predominantly dealing with netball is set to be advertised soon.

The issue of affiliation is a thorny point through much of Gippsland at present. Only the Gippsland League seems to be treated as a fully affiliated league and the other leagues want to put themselves at arm's length from AFLV.

Another region has two leagues wanting out as well.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The big clubs will thrive and the smaller clubs will be decimated, this time potentially for good. Players come and go as they please throughout all grades as there registration within or outside the PDFNL is irrelevant, while senior players will set there own price due to freedom to move. Pathways will be effected regardless of what you read. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same thing and expect a different outcome. Clubs have rocks in there heads excepting this as the right decision.

In 2018 picola and Rennie played off in the grand final , Blighty won by 1 point over Strathmerton in the semi . Rennie was in the grand final thanks to 1 point win over Waaia in the prelim .
Blighty , Picola , Rennie 3 of , if not the 3 smallest townships ( areas) in the league .
League announced post AGM it intends to have a points system , as well as having a salary cap .

 

[harsh. but fair]

In 2018 picola and Rennie played off in the grand final and whilst Blighty was in the semi final .
The 3 smallest townships ( areas) in the league .
League announced post AGM it intends to have a points system as well as having a salary cap .

Ok. what will salary cap be and how much will picola points system vary to that in place in 2022 and who oversees the individual allocations and makes a call in event a club makes a query? All this is predicated on picola going alone in 2023 which appears obvious now.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Ok. what will salary cap be and how much will picola points system vary to that in place in 2022 and who oversees the individual allocations and makes a call in event a club makes a query? All this is predicated on picola going alone in 2023 which appears obvious now.

Salary cap $95k
Clubs lodge points and league corrects if incorrect as has occurred in the past and I don’t recall there ever being any question over what a oppositions players worth , in the PDFNL .

 

[Running on Empty]

Salary cap $95k
Clubs lodge points and league corrects if incorrect as has occurred in the past and I don’t recall there ever being any question over what a oppositions players worth , in the PDFNL .

What was the reason behind the reduction to $85K from the AFL, I think most have stayed the same since covid

 

[Dons01]

In 2018 picola and Rennie played off in the grand final , Blighty won by 1 point over Strathmerton in the semi . Rennie was in the grand final thanks to 1 point win over Waaia in the prelim .
Blighty , Picola , Rennie 3 of , if not the 3 smallest townships ( areas) in the league .
League announced post AGM it intends to have a points system , as well as having a salary cap .

Was that the windy grand final year , What was the highest amount of player points a club had in your non affiliated year of 2018. I recall Rennie being on 50 maybe

 

[Footymatters]

Was that the windy grand final year , What was the highest amount of player points a club had in your non affiliated year of 2018. I recall Rennie being on 50 maybe

Pretty sure Rennie’s points were well into the 60’s.

 

[Footymatters]

In 2018 picola and Rennie played off in the grand final , Blighty won by 1 point over Strathmerton in the semi . Rennie was in the grand final thanks to 1 point win over Waaia in the prelim .
Blighty , Picola , Rennie 3 of , if not the 3 smallest townships ( areas) in the league .
League announced post AGM it intends to have a points system , as well as having a salary cap .

• 4 clubs left the league that year, which is possible again.
• A wealthy club were able to recruit premier league players throughout the season to buy a premiership.
• the PDFNL negative publicity made it extremely difficult to recruit reasonable people, that didn’t increase their asking price.

 

[jayco13]

Pretty sure Rennie’s points were well into the 60’s.

And they used every one of them

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Pretty sure Rennie’s points were well into the 60’s.

That was the previous season where they won the SE grand final , their opponent in the 2018 GF won the 2017 Nw GF .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

• 4 clubs left the league that year, which is possible again.
• A wealthy club were able to recruit premier league players throughout the season to buy a premiership.
• the PDFNL negative publicity made it extremely difficult to recruit reasonable people, that didn’t increase their asking price.

So a club was able to recruit players to ‘buy’ a premiership yet negative publicity made it difficult to recruit ?
Reality is the two best sides from the previous year played off in the grand final and the extreme conditions favoured Rennie . Different conditions and potentially a different result .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

So a club was able to recruit players to ‘buy’ a premiership yet negative publicity made it difficult to recruit ?
Reality is the two best sides from the previous year played off in the grand final and the extreme conditions favoured Rennie . Different conditions and potentially a different result .

Oh and given the premiers Rennie had a few high end talented players play minimal games I’d suggest their budget was significant less than some others .

 

[mixed emotions]

Rennie 2018 points Fountain 1, Ferguson 1, Runnalls 1, Ednie 3, Tempany 3, Brooks 3, Bigger 1, O Dwyer 1, Willett 1, McCallum 4, Ednie 3, Strawhorn 1, Kennedy 1, Rhodes 1, Forsyth 1, Welsh 1, Hargreaves 3, Murray 4, Porter 4, O Dwyer 2, Wolfe 1, OBryan 3 Totals 44 with a spend of less than $90k

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Just wondering out aloud ... why is it that the metro competitions are allowed to have funding agreements but not have to go the full affiliation route? The Riddell District league is the only one that is currently affiliated.

Meanwhile, country leagues are being steered towards affiliation seemingly without the option of having just a funding agreement.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Just wondering out aloud ... why is it that the metro competitions are allowed to have funding agreements but not have to go the full affiliation route? The Riddell District league is the only one that is currently affiliated.

Meanwhile, country leagues are being steered towards affiliation seemingly without the option of having just a funding agreement.

Is it because metro leagues have stuck together and collectively rejected the introduction of affiliation agreements ?

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Is it because metro leagues have stuck together and collectively rejected the introduction of affiliation agreements ?

Because then they have no say in points, the metro leagues are the biggest problem, they only worry about their backyard not the state of local footy

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Because then they have no say in points, the metro leagues are the biggest problem, they only worry about their backyard not the state of local footy

Are they the problem or solution ?

Where is the balance between capping for ‘ sustainability ‘ and allowing the game to be competitive with the alternatives .
Eg working on Saturday / another sport .

CPI at 3% per annum would mean to remain relative salary caps would need to increase by 16% every 5 years .
Eg $100k salary 5 years would need to be $116k now. It would appear we have actually seen salary caps reduced in that time .

To facilitate such growth clubs annual turn over needs to be able to increase at a similar rate . Which IMO is the biggest stumbling block for country sport , The ability to grow financially at the same rate as CPI .

I may be completely wrong but it appears the metro model is somewhat to not cap the top end , but allow greater growth for the bottom end ( lower end of ladder ) . In turn allowing the competitions to grow and be attractive .

Metro and Country face differing challenges and opportunities which are only growing in difference .

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Are they the problem or solution ?

Where is the balance between capping for ‘ sustainability ‘ and allowing the game to be competitive with the alternatives .
Eg working on Saturday / another sport .

CPI at 3% per annum would mean to remain relative salary caps would need to increase by 16% every 5 years .
Eg $100k salary 5 years would need to be $116k now. It would appear we have actually seen salary caps reduced in that time .

To facilitate such growth clubs annual turn over needs to be able to increase at a similar rate . Which IMO is the biggest stumbling block for country sport , The ability to grow financially at the same rate as CPI .

I may be completely wrong but it appears the metro model is somewhat to not cap the top end , but allow greater growth for the bottom end ( lower end of ladder ) . In turn allowing the competitions to grow and be attractive .

Metro and Country face differing challenges and opportunities which are only growing in difference .

They have to work together, where's most of Victoria's population live, in Melbourne, yet there's just as many footy clubs if not more in the country. The metro system needs less points, they have more juniors to use and that way it pushes more players to the country. If metro clubs continue to have more points and greater salary it kills country footy

 

[jayco13]

They have to work together, where's most of Victoria's population live, in Melbourne, yet there's just as many footy clubs if not more in the country. The metro system needs less points, they have more juniors to use and that way it pushes more players to the country. If metro clubs continue to have more points and greater salary it kills country footy

To kill country footy.... seems like that's AFLVics (the AFLs) main goal some times

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

They have to work together, where's most of Victoria's population live, in Melbourne, yet there's just as many footy clubs if not more in the country. The metro system needs less points, they have more juniors to use and that way it pushes more players to the country. If metro clubs continue to have more points and greater salary it kills country footy

Metro possibly agree that country needs more salary cap points . Do country league clubs have the ability to sustainably pay $30-40k more than metro and if not how can that be turned around ? Someone else mentioned metro leagues receive ‘funding’ agreements , why can’t and don’t country leagues and clubs receive the same ?

 

[jayco13]

Not a playing recruit but I hear Katandra has appointed Jason Whittaker as coach he is a former Undera coach and has been a line coach at mooroopna last couple of years

Spot on again Swoop

 

[Load of Gypsum]

Metro possibly agree that country needs more salary cap points . Do country league clubs have the ability to sustainably pay $30-40k more than metro and if not how can that be turned around ? Someone else mentioned metro leagues receive ‘funding’ agreements , why can’t and don’t country leagues and clubs receive the same ?

What's the model that you'd like to have in place Roar? Would you have both the points and cap in play?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

What's the model that you'd like to have in place Roar? Would you have both the points and cap in play?

IMO the ideal process would be to allow the sucessfull clubs to maintain their current level and allow those further down the tree , greater opportunity to improve . IMO The only way to do that is varied player points which considers all factors in recruiting players and/or affects the amount of junior 1 pointers who can come through . EG , population/ proximity to major town , past juniors success etc etc
The concept of the salary cap I agree with , the policing of such IMO has been non existent and as such many think it’s a waste of time . Again I am aware salary caps are varied around the state and IIRC SA have moved to a maximum spend in a given game , whilst the idea of 1 pointers being outside the salary cap isn’t the worst idea I’ve heard . Likewise a travel component of a player being outside the salary cap .

 

[MortlockWatcher]

I reckon having a sliding scale of points based on the previous season's ladder positions would be beneficial for some single-division competitions:

As a rough guide:
1-4 get a set base points figure
5-8 get the base +1
9-12 get the base +2-3
13-15 get the base +4-6
With an additional allowance given to a club that has missed senior finals for 5+ years and also for clubs facing factors such as less access to juniors, smaller population bases, being further away major centres, etc.

In terms of salary caps, as a comparison, Western Australian country football has a salary cap of $3000 per match with no player allowed to earn more than $500 per match.

In 2020, South Australia's cap was $3000 per match for metro leagues and $3500 per match for country leagues (not sure what the cap was per player).

I am not a fan of salary caps. Having worked in sports administration, the competition I worked with considered a salary cap until I pointed out that there were so many ways of circumventing it and it was a waste of time investigating any claims.

Players have no consideration for salary caps and will still demand top dollar and clubs will pay what they need to secure players. if it means going over the cap, they will use intermediaries to get their man or men.

 

[Running on Empty]

I reckon having a sliding scale of points based on the previous season's ladder positions would be beneficial for some single-division competitions:

As a rough guide:
1-4 get a set base points figure
5-8 get the base +1
9-12 get the base +2-3
13-15 get the base +4-6
With an additional allowance given to a club that has missed senior finals for 5+ years and also for clubs facing factors such as less access to juniors, smaller population bases, being further away major centres, etc.

In terms of salary caps, as a comparison, Western Australian country football has a salary cap of $3000 per match with no player allowed to earn more than $500 per match.

In 2020, South Australia's cap was $3000 per match for metro leagues and $3500 per match for country leagues (not sure what the cap was per player).

I am not a fan of salary caps. Having worked in sports administration, the competition I worked with considered a salary cap until I pointed out that there were so many ways of circumventing it and it was a waste of time investigating any claims.

Players have no consideration for salary caps and will still demand top dollar and clubs will pay what they need to secure players. if it means going over the cap, they will use intermediaries to get their man or men.

While I understand the concept, I would like to see what the 2022 points used by all the clubs, how many clubs would be close to being maxed out. I like the idea of a set total for match payments per round as is would require greater management, especially around 30th June when clearances close