Leeds United Thread

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Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Hardly surprising result. Whether it was against Bates or Leeds United, it didn't matter, we weren't going to get a result that was already pre-determined.

This is going to come back and bite so many clubs on the arse.

It's now up to Wise and the squad to get us of this and if they do they'll be remembered forever as LUFC legends.
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Are we talking about scrapping away from the relegation battle here or are you still after promotion. Whats the goal for the season here?
 

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Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Catman said:
I'm talking survival - with a 15 pt deficit to make up, we have to worry about erasing that first.

If we can get into a position to contend for promotion then that would only confirm their legend status.
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Its gonna be harder then you think I feel. Just look at Nottingham Forest. They have been down there for what seems a age now
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Catman said:
Hardly surprising result. Whether it was against Bates or Leeds United, it didn't matter, we weren't going to get a result that was already pre-determined.
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I think the games that Bates has been playing, and Leeds exploiting a loophole in the rules to get the -10 penalty included in last season's total has been a key to the League clubs upholding the -15 penalty.

If Bates was more, well, transparent in his dealings, I don't think you would be dealing with the situation you're in.

Catman said:
This is going to come back and bite so many clubs on the arse.
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How?
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Embers said:
Its gonna be harder then you think I feel. Just look at Nottingham Forest. They have been down there for what seems a age now
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Clubs that are larger than Nottingham Forest....like Manchester City, Wolverhampton Wanderers, and Aston Villa...have all spent time in League One (the former Division Two, and before that, the former Division Three).

I'd say that Leeds are a larger club than Forest. I can't see Leeds getting out with a -15 start (I agree with Catman, go get out would ensure legend status amongst Leeds fans), but if they can spend a season or two consolidating, they should get out*.




*As a Manchester United fan, I'm hoping they get relegated again. ;)
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Shinboners said:
I think the games that Bates has been playing, and Leeds exploiting a loophole in the rules to get the -10 penalty included in last season's total has been a key to the League clubs upholding the -15 penalty.
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Why should we suffer for a flaw in the FL rules?

If Bates was more, well, transparent in his dealings, I don't think you would be dealing with the situation you're in.
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Probably true. Still doesn't explain where they get the -15pts from though. We've been made a scapegoat because of who we are.

How?
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I think they are going to come up against a determined Leeds United side playing with an us-against-the-world attitude who will take no prisoners in their attempt to get out of this mess. We'll be hardest game they'll play all season, physically and competitively.

I'd also imagine LUFC will show no sympathy in future to the plight of other clubs, such as Brighton, who we supported in their campaign for a new stadium. They were allegedly one of the clubs who voted in favour of upholding the penalty.
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Catman said:
Why should we suffer for a flaw in the FL rules?
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I was just spectulating.


Catman said:
Probably true. Still doesn't explain where they get the -15pts from though. We've been made a scapegoat because of who we are.
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From what I've read, the penalty was for not getting your financial obligations sorted out within the time limits.

I'll speculate further and say that for the offence of not getting your paperwork done, you got a -10 penalty. However, since it could be seen that this is a second offence within months of your last offence, an additional -5 point penalty was added.

It's harsh, but considering that only weeks ago, there was a chance that Leeds wouldn't even be allowed to compete, perhaps you could count your blessings that it's better to be around with -15 points than to be not around at all.

Catman said:
I think they are going to come up against a determined Leeds United side playing with an us-against-the-world attitude who will take no prisoners in their attempt to get out of this mess. We'll be hardest game they'll play all season, physically and competitively.
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I think that's a bit optimistic. I can't imagine that morale around Leeds would be too good right now.

Catman said:
I'd also imagine LUFC will show no sympathy in future to the plight of other clubs, such as Brighton, who we supported in their campaign for a new stadium. They were allegedly one of the clubs who voted in favour of upholding the penalty.
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That might be true if Bates and his cohorts keep control of the club. But if they've moved on and a new administration controls the club, they'd probably be more interested in making sure that Leeds has good relations with the other clubs rather than wanting to settle scores.
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

to smithmustscore, **** brighton, we supported them all the way with the stadium proposal and our very own chairmen even used his links in the area to try and get things up and going. Nothing but help and support, and then they **** us over yesterday, i hope the town full of ****ters rot in hell
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Shinboners said:
I was just spectulating.




From what I've read, the penalty was for not getting your financial obligations sorted out within the time limits.

I'll speculate further and say that for the offence of not getting your paperwork done, you got a -10 penalty. However, since it could be seen that this is a second offence within months of your last offence, an additional -5 point penalty was added.

It's harsh, but considering that only weeks ago, there was a chance that Leeds wouldn't even be allowed to compete, perhaps you could count your blessings that it's better to be around with -15 points than to be not around at all.



I think that's a bit optimistic. I can't imagine that morale around Leeds would be too good right now.



That might be true if Bates and his cohorts keep control of the club. But if they've moved on and a new administration controls the club, they'd probably be more interested in making sure that Leeds has good relations with the other clubs rather than wanting to settle scores.
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how is it a second offence? we got a penalty for our original offence, we got deducted 10 points last season and finished on 36 points
What happened this time is really the fault of our own chairmen, who through all of his ego still wanted control of the club and thus went into bed with KPMG (who are ****ing *****) whose sole purpose was to get bates back into power with it all seeing as though it was a normal process.
KPMG gave no-one else access to the books and yet other bidders (who bidded more than bates) bids were over-looked and bates put in charge.
That was their first **** up
This whole issue is to do with the change of laws in administration where football debts MUST be paid in full, thus there always being less money for the tax man. The HMRC decided purely out of spite they would challenge this ( i say spite as they have accepted far worse percentages for similar amounts of money in the past, what else could it be?)
Next, KPMG decided to scrap the CVA, in the hope the FL would recognise the excpetional circumstances the club is in with regards to HMRC. 41 clubs have gone thru admin with a CVA, but by getting rid of the CVA, effectively snuffed out any chance the HMRC had of winning the battle. A battle they really were only trying to fight to stick it up the FL. this is where the shit hit the fan with the FL, they need to show that they would not let there rules be broken, scrapping the CVA was a KPMG decision, yet they seem to have escaped all scrutiny. Sanctioning leeds in all honesty was fair, but 15 points is very ****ing extreme, considering the crap west ham have gotten away with. A much much tougher penalty for leeds to obtain the share, would of been to pay all football debts immediatley (something they could do, but inturn would mean theyd have little money for team investment), or at worst a 5 point penalty, with 10 points suspended for any further misconduct.
That **** mahwinney was quite smug, and i hope he rots in hell also
This will make the rise up the FL so much sweeter whenever it happens in 3? possibly even 10 years time.
The real test will be, future punishment for similar misconduct, lets see how smug that **** mahwinney is then...
rant over..i feel sick:(
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

Catman said:
Probably true. Still doesn't explain where they get the -15pts from though. We've been made a scapegoat because of who we are.
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You've been made a scapegoat for what you've done, not who you are. Make an agreement to repay your debts (as the league rules say you must), and the 15 points penalty wouldn't have happened.
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

drewie_rama said:
This whole issue is to do with the change of laws in administration where football debts MUST be paid in full, thus there always being less money for the tax man. The HMRC decided purely out of spite they would challenge this ( i say spite as they have accepted far worse percentages for similar amounts of money in the past, what else could it be?)
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I would suggest that HMRC would have a belief that Leeds were more than capable of paying more than they offered.

Next, KPMG decided to scrap the CVA, in the hope the FL would recognise the excpetional circumstances the club is in with regards to HMRC. 41 clubs have gone thru admin with a CVA, but by getting rid of the CVA, effectively snuffed out any chance the HMRC had of winning the battle. A battle they really were only trying to fight to stick it up the FL. this is where the shit hit the fan with the FL, they need to show that they would not let there rules be broken, scrapping the CVA was a KPMG decision, yet they seem to have escaped all scrutiny.
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The role of KPMG has been questionable through the whole affair. I'm not sure that the league could take any action against them, but I think their reputation has suffered through their involvement with Bates. I know I certainly think much less of them as a company as a result of it.

Sanctioning leeds in all honesty was fair, but 15 points is very ****ing extreme, considering the crap west ham have gotten away with. A much much tougher penalty for leeds to obtain the share, would of been to pay all football debts immediatley (something they could do, but inturn would mean theyd have little money for team investment), or at worst a 5 point penalty, with 10 points suspended for any further misconduct.
That **** mahwinney was quite smug, and i hope he rots in hell also
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I don't think you can use West Ham as a comparison. Their penalty was decided by an entirely different body, and is generally accepted as a flawed one. They got away with it, you weren't so lucky. I doubt the league could order the club to repay football debts, although if could I think it would have been a good penalty. 5 points wouldnt have been enough of a penalty for a deliberate breach of the rules that the club by all accounts has no intention of redressing.

This will make the rise up the FL so much sweeter whenever it happens in 3? possibly even 10 years time.
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I agree.

The real test will be, future punishment for similar misconduct, lets see how smug that **** mahwinney is then...
rant over..i feel sick:(
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I think the league (as opposed to the premier league) has been pretty consistent with their rulings, and I'm sure that if another club does the same the penalty will be the same. A precedent has now been set.
 

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Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

moomba said:
I think the league (as opposed to the premier league) has been pretty consistent with their rulings, and I'm sure that if another club does the same the penalty will be the same. A precedent has now been set.
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Very true... the only other alternative would be to relegate Leeds two divisions plus the other relegation to the Blue Square Premier like Boston United who've ended up in Blue Square North
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

I read in the Yorkshire evening post that the vote was 64-6 against Leeds. Leeds was one of those six teams. Out of the 71 clubs eligable to vote, Bury was the only club that didn't. From reading various papers about other chairmans reactions to the penalty we can definatly say that Swindon Town, Gilligham,Crystal Palace and Rotherham voted against Leeds and Leicester City were in support of Leeds. The Swindon chairman also said that the penalty wasn't severe enough. It also looks like Leeds will sign Tomasz Radzinski on a free transfer.
 
Re: Leeds United Thread 07/08

drewie_rama said:
how is it a second offence? we got a penalty for our original offence, we got deducted 10 points last season and finished on 36 points
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Again, I was just speculating. The attitude of the other clubs may have been, "Well, you didn't get yourselfs sorted out financially last season, and you haven't gotten yourselves sorted out in time for the start of this season....so here's another penalty for you".

From one football fan to another, I've got a lot of sympathy for you. No football fan should see their team go through the crap that you've seen with Leeds. And personally, I put the blame on Bates and his ego.

Bates can walk away and not lose too much out of it. But you guys lose a football club, and I think that would be a tragedy.
 
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