Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[Purple Jesus]

A neutral observer come in peace.

I fell out of love with AFL and Swans due to Paul Roos ball. The game was infected with possession, tempo and chip to a nearby player. After the GF win, I could not emotionally stomach the intense, defensive and boring as far.k style anymore. Returned to NRL which is another story.

Freo reminds me of the Swans and Roosball minus potent forward line, Bazza, Nick Davis, etc. Longmure does not appear to make adjustment, it's like playing a Football manager, you click to start match then just watch it unfold.

The modern football is immensely watchable, at least for me. It rewards chaos and risk taking. You don't want to keep Longmure beyond this season regardless if he can turn it around - his style isn't conducive to the modern game. Just like possession football, unfortunately, became the norm, Freo is in danger of falling behind the modern ethos.

In other news, water gets things wet.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I am really surprised JL didn't direct the midfield to get after Reid. Maybe even have Young go to him?

I thought JL had a poor tactical night against the Eagles.

 

[Madas]

I’d say that if there was ever a team to go fast against it was west Coast.

You cannot let Fatty and Barrass have time to set up and dictate play.

They need uncertainty, so Fat guts has to play on a man, not sag off and take marks.

Yeh seriously
Put it at their feet and it’s a whole different ball game
Poor coaching and dumb football all round

 

[Righteo]

Dont forget we also average 12 pts in the six first quarters played this year. Jlo has no idea how to change this

The concern is that this was supposedly a key focus over the preseason and yet somehow we're actually getting worse at them. I have begun to think that the only reason we got so close to being 5-0 was simply sheer talent and superior fitness, rather than cohesive tactics or leadership.

 

[Jezzitizle]

I was pretty angry watching the game.

But before I join the lynch mob, let’s see the response this week and the following weeks.

I thought the players phoned it in, thought they could cruise and get the win.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

A neutral observer come in peace.

I fell out of love with AFL and Swans due to Paul Roos ball. The game was infected with possession, tempo and chip to a nearby player. After the GF win, I could not emotionally stomach the intense, defensive and boring as far.k style anymore. Returned to NRL which is another story.

Freo reminds me of the Swans and Roosball minus potent forward line, Bazza, Nick Davis, etc. Longmure does not appear to make adjustment, it's like playing a Football manager, you click to start match then just watch it unfold.

The modern football is immensely watchable, at least for me. It rewards chaos and risk taking. You don't want to keep Longmure beyond this season regardless if he can turn it around - his style isn't conducive to the modern game. Just like possession football, unfortunately, became the norm, Freo is in danger of falling behind the modern ethos.

Can't disagree tbh. And honestly, after watching 12 years of ultra-defensively branded football, I'm just exhausted by it. I watch football to be entertained. The fact that entertaining football is also conducive to winning football in the modern game just puts me at a loss with JL.

 

[rubydoomsday]

I was pretty angry watching the game.

But before I join the lynch mob, let’s see the response this week and the following weeks.

I thought the players phoned it in, thought they could cruise and get the win.

This. They went in with an incredibly bad, unprofessional outlook, it feels like. have to burst out vs Dogs.

But I was also puzzled by 1) starting Darcy on the bench (arrogant) and 2) giving no direct attention to Reid, even once it was clear he was having an impact.

even though a bunch of ours had a bad day at the office, it all started with some genuinely baffling tactical choices, imo.

and there is simply no excuse for 3 behinds form 16 I50s. this/our first quarters has to be addressed.

dominating clearances (all J Lo seems to talk about) is literally worthless if you can't enter the F50 in a way that isn't completely obvious/predictable to the opposition, and put at least some of it on the scoreboard.

 

[blue shark]

Can't disagree tbh. And honestly, after watching 12 years of ultra-defensively branded football, I'm just exhausted by it. I watch football to be entertained. The fact that entertaining football is also conducive to winning football in the modern game just puts me at a loss with JL.

What’s worse is when you see Port kick 6 goals in the first quarter against the Pies.
Did the Pies go back into their shells?
Try to just limit the damage to the scoreboard. No they go on the offensive.
They take them on from half back with run and carry, they know they can lose
a quarter but have the belief to run over teams in the end.
They started this in 2022, and when we play this year will the result be any
different?

 

[taurus]

Interesting Taurus. I'm not sure I agree, as he was getting them to play an attacking brand at times in the first couple of weeks.
They can do it, did it against West Coast late in the game when they threw caution to the wind. Up the guts. We have some good users, but maybe the week in Adelaide was too much. Who wants to do a week in Radelaide? Three nights is plenty.
If he keeps going like this, and members drop off, his card will be stamped regardless

Youse did play more attacking play but it was against lesser teams. Two close losses did deflate the team but last week was inexcusable.

Responding to another poster, gee, you are frosty! It like 'Shoot the guy who is carrying a white flag!'

 

[Dockeroo]

I thought the players phoned it in, thought they could cruise and get the win.

Fascinates me anyone associated with Fremantle of all teams could think like this.
We have NEVER earned the right to have this attitude in the AFL, not in 29 years of competing.

 

[malpaso]

I’d say that if there was ever a team to go fast against it was west Coast.

You cannot let Fatty and Barrass have time to set up and dictate play.

They need uncertainty, so Fat guts has to play on a man, not sag off and take marks.

Thing is Freo know this and haven't done it in the last 3 seasons but under pressure (which the Eagles did bring) our players reverted to bail out kicks and brain fades.

 

[dockshark]

It's very simple. We have a game plan based on the need for pack marking in our attacking 50 against 4-5 other opposition players, or when the ball hits the ground, locking the ball in and scoring goals from holding the ball decisions/pressure acts.

This is because the forward line is so congested due to the horrendously slow ball movement up field.

The ball movement is so slow because we are scared to run off our opponents and take the game on from our defensive half, as we are trying to limit being scored off from turnovers, so we move the ball slowly and don't commit too many men forward of the ball. We only do that when there is no safe incremental kick available, at which point we organise a slow moving pack target near the boundary line for a kick down the line, in order to initiate another stoppage, and, again (yawn) better field position.

We don't back the pace, skills and decision making at speed of our defenders and midfielders. Instead we rely on slowly making field position, then using sheer pressure and graft to move the ball into offensive parts of the ground. That's why we've always loved drafting hard working tackle machines with limited skills like Schultz and Emmett, guys who can lock the ball in and score a few goals through blue collar gruntwork once we have the ball upfield in a packed and congested forward 50.

Our game plan is based on a lack of belief in our players. That lack of belief seeps into everything we do. It breeds uncertainty. It can keep you in games. But it's not attractive to watch, it's not fun to play, and it falls down against teams that have good defensive interceptors and then attack at speed.

It's a game plan based on trying not to lose, and trying not to be scored against when we make errors. It's not a game plan based on trying to win. On taking the game on. On being prepared to fail. It will be the end of JL. It's so clear to everyone, but, it seems, himself.

Excellent post. This describes the way we played against Port Adelaide perfectly.

 

[malpaso]

I was pretty angry watching the game.

But before I join the lynch mob, let’s see the response this week and the following weeks.

I thought the players phoned it in, thought they could cruise and get the win.

Yeah I agree, very few players were actually willing to compete in this game.

 

[mattis117]

I am really surprised JL didn't direct the midfield to get after Reid. Maybe even have Young go to him?

I thought JL had a poor tactical night against the Eagles.

That's a lot easier said than done when you're the away derby team...

 

[mattis117]

This. They went in with an incredibly bad, unprofessional outlook, it feels like. have to burst out vs Dogs.

But I was also puzzled by 1) starting Darcy on the bench (arrogant) and 2) giving no direct attention to Reid, even once it was clear he was having an impact.

even though a bunch of ours had a bad day at the office, it all started with some genuinely baffling tactical choices, imo.

and there is simply no excuse for 3 behinds form 16 I50s. this/our first quarters has to be addressed.

dominating clearances (all J Lo seems to talk about) is literally worthless if you can't enter the F50 in a way that isn't completely obvious/predictable to the opposition, and put at least some of it on the scoreboard.

Have to agree, Darcy starting on the bench was just straight up bizarre. Made no sense whatsoever.

 

[dockshark]

That's a lot easier said than done when you're the away derby team...

What does being the away derby team have to do with manning up on a player having a significant influence on the game?

 

[freo1]

I was pretty angry watching the game.

But before I join the lynch mob, let’s see the response this week and the following weeks.

I thought the players phoned it in, thought they could cruise and get the win.

I agree, but how many chances do we give someone? "lets see the response this week" is a phrase we've uttered too many times.

I would hope that following the weekend's performance, the club is absolutely doing their due diligence as we speak on a new coach.

The club has spruiked hard that we're in finals and premiership mode - they're not my words, they're the CEO's. Clubs of that calibre, with the perceived talent we have dont allow "abominations", let alone losses like that to a rebuilding club who has been nothing short of an embarrassment in recent times.

We're not consistent, we're not making the most of our talent. I have no idea of who the next coach should be or who's available, but JL has had his time. We need to be very careful - this type of poor season will have our Vic kids being courted and tempted by clubs back home.

 

[MadMac]

We’ll see on Thursday. Selection will tell us a great deal of where we’re headed.

 

[Jezzitizle]

I agree, but how many chances do we give someone? "lets see the response this week" is a phrase we've uttered too many times.

I would hope that following the weekend's performance, the club is absolutely doing their due diligence as we speak on a new coach.

The club has spruiked hard that we're in finals and premiership mode - they're not my words, they're the CEO's. Clubs of that calibre, with the perceived talent we have dont allow "abominations", let alone losses like that to a rebuilding club who has been nothing short of an embarrassment in recent times.

We're not consistent, we're not making the most of our talent. I have no idea of who the next coach should be or who's available, but JL has had his time. We need to be very careful - this type of poor season will have our Vic kids being courted and tempted by clubs back home.

It’s a tough question, how much latitude do you give a coach during a rebuild?

Last year we were, what second youngest?

Would you evaluate him against the same criteria as when Scott walked into the Cats? I’m not sure.

 

[freo1]

It’s a tough question, how much latitude do you give a coach during a rebuild?

Last year we were, what second youngest?

Would you evaluate him against the same criteria as when Scott walked into the Cats? I’m not sure.

Very good point - which i dont know the answer to, so i'm purely evaluating him against what the CEO says. He has said we should be challenging at the pointy end, and quite simply the top teams dont perform like we did on the weekend and dont show fundamental flaws like we do. Our forward connection is disastrous, and I honestly dont think it's due to a lack of talent.

 

[dockshark]

It’s a tough question, how much latitude do you give a coach during a rebuild?

Last year we were, what second youngest?

Would you evaluate him against the same criteria as when Scott walked into the Cats? I’m not sure.

Very good point - which i dont know the answer to, so i'm purely evaluating him against what the CEO says. He has said we should be challenging at the pointy end, and quite simply the top teams dont perform like we did on the weekend and dont show fundamental flaws like we do. Our forward connection is disastrous, and I honestly dont think it's due to a lack of talent.

I tend to think that the issues are more complex and nuanced than just the head coaching role. You would want to be confident that you have appropriate support structures, organisational authority, and leadership culture in place before bringing another coach into the organisation.

The tension between Bell and Longmuir bolied over at the end of the season and the club responded by moving Bell outside of the footy department and replacing him with Brierty. It's difficult to get a handle from the outside how much autonomy the coach actually has vs how much influence the EGM of Footy has over key aspects including structure, strategy, selection, gameplan.

I'm not saying we don't need a new coach mind you, quite possibly we do. I just wonder if there are more leadership and structural changes required to ensure that a new coach is coming into an environment in which they can succeed.

 

[Madas]

Very good point - which i dont know the answer to, so i'm purely evaluating him against what the CEO says. He has said we should be challenging at the pointy end, and quite simply the top teams dont perform like we did on the weekend and dont show fundamental flaws like we do. Our forward connection is disastrous, and I honestly dont think it's due to a lack of talent.

I would confidently say that give this team an experienced KPF and good goal kicking small forward and it’s a whole different ball game

A simple exercise to prove the point
Best forward lines in the comp

Hawkins, Cameron , Stengle
Curnow , McKay , Cottrell
Greene , Hogan , Ricciardi
Daniher , Hipwood, Cameron
Mihocek, Elliot , Hoskin ( amongst others )
Lynch , Riewoldt ( last year ) , Rioli


I won’t go on but this is who you want to be kicking it to

Not

Amiss , Treacy , Walters

( Yet )

 

[Freomaniac]

Strangely enough, the most talented coach that we could poach is Ross Lyon.
But in all honesty - how would someone like Brad Scott fit in?
Sounds crazy but would you look at someone like Choco Williams? Or would you put a good contract underneath Josh Carr?

I wouldnt mind Ken Hinkley if Hecould motivate us to a few 5th to 8th placed finishes in a row.

I wouldnt mind Brad Scott. I didnt mind what he did at North from 2010-19.

If Brad Scott can produce similar results at freo like he did at North from 2010-2019, I am in.

4 finals wins in 10 seasons wont be bad if that means finals in 5 or 6 out of the next 10 years.

 

[Freomaniac]

The style that Longmuir is aiming for is almost guaranteed to not win a flag. You almost certainly need a top 5 forward line. In the entire time we have been in the competition, there have been 29 premierships won, and only 4 have come from sides that didn't have a top 5 forward line. Sydney in 2005. Dogs fluke in 2016 when the umpires cheated. And Richmond in 2017 and 2019, who still played a weirdly attacking type of football with their surge mentality, and kicked 16.12 and 17.12 on GF day. They had the #2 attack in 2018 and #5 in 2020.

There is zero evidence to suggest Longmuir is aiming to truly achieve a good attacking side. I don't think we should realistically expect a top 5 forward line now. No way. But I want to see a gameplan which is leading to this in a few years time. Instead JL seems intent on trying to recreate the Sydney success of 2005, a once in 30 years type of event. It's not a great strategy and is almost certain to fail.

We shouldn't be trying to strangle 70-60 wins against good sides. There's been enough defence drilled into this side. Keep the defensive mindset in the background, but release the shackles when we have the ball. We should be trying to go head to head with Port and Carlton, and if that means losing 120-80, then so be it.

Interesting observations.

The last AFL team to win a flag averaging 100 points in attack in the regualr season is hawks of 2013-5. Funny thing is, Every single premiership side after the hawks 2015 premiership side, Since 2016 when the dogs won, ever premiership side since 2016 didnt haverage 100 points in attack.

Hell the 2 grand final sides in 2018 was west coast (91 points in attack and concede 73 a game) and Collingwood (93 points in attack , concede 75 points a game), netheir side averaged 100 points in attack.

Hell fremantles 2013 AFL grand final side averaged 93 points in attack and concede 68 a game in the regular season.

Also I have no Issues on freo being a medium scoring side or Kick 11-15 goals on a good day. I see this years dockers side kick on average 12 goals a game.

But here is the thing... look at every grand final since 2000. How many of those grand finals have had the winner still won the grand final but still didnt score 100 points? I will name the years.... 2002, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2020 and 2023.

9 times since 2000.

 

[freo1]

I would confidently say that give this team an experienced KPF and good goal kicking small forward and it’s a whole different ball game

A simple exercise to prove the point
Best forward lines in the comp

Hawkins, Cameron , Stengle
Curnow , McKay , Cottrell
Greene , Hogan , Ricciardi
Daniher , Hipwood, Cameron
Mihocek, Elliot , Hoskin ( amongst others )
Lynch , Riewoldt ( last year ) , Rioli


I won’t go on but this is who you want to be kicking it to

Not

Amiss , Treacy , Walters

( Yet )

That's all well and good - you may be right, you may be wrong. With the cattle we currently have though, the CEO has stated we should be competing at the top end and challenging for the flag. That seems a long way off right now.