Was he mentally struggling prior to the 2017 season as well?
Because he now looks like that player again.
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Opinion Did Taranto and Hopper make a mistake leaving the Giants for Richmond?
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Was he mentally struggling prior to the 2017 season as well?
Because he now looks like that player again.
- Apr 27, 2014
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yep, exactly the situation we faced end-2009, we managed to moneyball our way to a dynasty despite the GCS GWS concessions back then, a miracle in itself, but would be a double miracle to do it again with the Tassy concessions.
that's the way the cookie crumbles I guess.
Taranto and Hopper can find a lot of satisfaction in helping bring up the next generation.
Well one of them will at least.
Hopper will constantly be on the sidelines throughout the remaining years of his contract.
- Apr 27, 2014
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yes, so sad, as he was very influential early doors last night
you never know which way it's going to go, Josh Caddy was similarly a bit fragile when we got him from the Cats, but he helped kick off a dynasty for us!
- Oct 16, 2016
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Richmond are facing a Hawthorn/North Melbourne style rebuild. It'd be advantageous having experienced mids in the side but for Taranto and Hopper themselves, dark times ahead!
You mean Martin the struggling third B & F player in 2011 and 2013, second B&F 2013 and '15, B&F 2016.
All Australian 2016. AA nominee 2014, 2015.
No struggling since his serious kidney injury and his fathers death, and now 33 years old and we are struggling.
- Jun 19, 2006
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They're much more competitive currently even with the injury issues. If they can hold their culture together it won't be that bad. But yes the young talent looks incredibly thin so it'll take a while before they're competitive again. And that makes keeping the culture intact a huge challenge (see Hawthorn who haven't had the problems of North or West Coast but are having significant issues now the rebuild is dragging on).
- Aug 12, 2017
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Replace Kelly with Treloar in that list and you are spot on!
lol so we are bringing up 3rd place poling are we?
As I said, Martin was a very good player but hardly the player he was when he had a stellar cast of teammates around him.
Just imagine what the guy would be if he had to do it alone at a struggling club like Gold Coast back in the day
Not that thin. Dow, Hugo RS, Rioli Jnr were all in our best 6 or 8 last night. Young also very good. Brown has talent, 5 games into his career. Best kick already in the side. Reserves 4th even with all our injuries. Played only 6 and 7 AFL players the last three weeks or so. Sonsie best on by a long way yesterday, Smith not far behind. MacAuliffe carry over for AFL, 18 years old. It's not that thin, just starting to get regular games and are being backed in by the coach.
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- May 23, 2016
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If they wanted to win a premiership, yes.
In your second year of football as an 19-20 year old, yup.lol so we are bringing up 3rd place poling are we?
As I said, Martin was a very good player but hardly the player he was when he had a stellar cast of teammates around him.
Just imagine what the guy would be if he had to do it alone at a struggling club like Gold Coast back in the day
We were pretty average until 2017, amongst the stellar were a lot of average player, or young players. Martin has turned out the best of them.
He is not GAJ if that is what you want me to say, although he is as good a big game player as him.
You mean those four seasons prior to 2017 when he polled a total of 75 Brownlow votes, polling in 37 games?
Troll.
2016-2020 he was elite. Good player otherwise, but the lack of complete dominance when you have no defensive side to your game as an attacking mid/forward flanker does have to be taken into account.
I dare say the only players with a better Brownlow record across 2013-2016 (i.e pre-2017 as the troll stated) would be Fyfe and Dangerfield. You're welcome to search for any others, of which I'd guess there might be two or three more. It was also a period where he was in the AA squad for the final three seasons (14,15,16) and made the AA team in the 2016 season.
I think that makes him more than a "good" player in that time. He would have walked into any team.
Django
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- Jun 11, 2020
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Those clubs rebuilds are through their own choices, and bad ones at that. I'd like to be hopeful that we can do something more akin to Sydney in 2019-2020. They finished in the bottom 4 both seasons, and got themselves up again. Oddly Melbourne finished second last in 2019, but that was an anomaly or abbreviation, though it did get them a few handy players who helped contribute to their 2021 flag.
Sure Richmond might not get that lucky, but I see no reason to believe it is as bad as some see it. And if we are gonna be out of the 8, I'm glad we are at least competing in games while we get games into younger players. We're not getting the points, but that is kinda advantageous to our predicament anyway it will improve our draft hand.
Dusty's almost always done well in the Brownlow, even before he broke out. I put a lot more credence in the coaches votes for players personally.
2016 is where Martin spiked, up to 90 votes from the previous 4 year average of 43 coaches votes per year (2012-2015). Then a spectacular run (if you include finals) of 122, 77, 90 and 70 votes - with the last one in a smaller season. Back to 30 votes per season since then and yes, injuries and mental health etc have played a part.
So I stand by my 2016-2020 statement. Condensing it to 2017-2020 is wrong.
Kobe Gryant
In memoriam of 'The Cliff™' Est: 2011-TBC
The difference is those Sydney sides already had Heeney, Mills, Rowbottom, Papley, Hayward, Florent, Blakey, & McCartin as promising youth, to go with the veterans who still had years ahead of them in Parker, Rampe, & Franklin.
They also picked up both Warner & McDonald in back-to-back drafts, to go with Gulden & Campbell as academy talents.
Melbourne had Viney, Oliver, & Brayshaw as budding stars, to go with an uber-talented Petracca yet to hit his prime. As well as Max Gawn, Steven May, & Jake Lever reaching the peak of their powers.
The examples you've listed are those of clubs underperforming for their talent level, or waiting on brilliant young players to mature enough to reach their potential.
The difference with Richmond is nobody is really surprised that they've ended up here, unlike your examples.
It's a list with a lot of old players, a lack of young talent, and some very good players in the inbetween years (Rioli, Bolton, Taranto)
Do Richmond have anybody on their list like a Heeney, Gulden, Warner, Petracca, Oliver, or May? Particularly on the younger side?
Maybe Gibcus might reach that level one day, but the poor kid can't stay healthy. Campbell has promise as a young player, as does Browne...but they're just that, promising.
The Richmond list right now is far closer to Hawthorn circa '17-20 than it is your examples IMO.
The butcher left and allowed GWS to have decent foot skills
Fine, you are assessing a different period to what the troll suggested, which if you'd like to check was "prior to 2017", and to what I was responding.
I don't know where to find historical coaches votes. If you could direct me that would be appreciated.
Well I corrected his post and added where I saw Martin's elite peak was. People forget about 2016, either because Richmond had a poor year or he was more of a classic midfielder rather than attacking mid/forward flanker piling on goals. But his consistency was much greater than before or after the 2016-2020 period and that is better reflected in the dual coach 1-5 voting system than umpires giving 1-3. B&F results, well there were so many poor-mediocre Richmond teams outside of that period. Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Deledio and Rance and then things fell away.
Choose your year and then click on a player to look at their career, as long as their career lasted until 2012 (e.g you wouldn't be able to find Ben Cousins).
SSSSSS
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Tom Mitchell + Jaeger mk2.
Except they paid more and probably received less.
Except they paid more and probably received less.
Would Richmond consider doing a "Bowes deal" to get Hopper's contract off their books?
e.g. Trade Baker for massive unders on the condition a club takes Hopper and his full contract? Or trade Hopper and a first-rounder to a club that's struggling to even meet minimum cap?
e.g. Trade Baker for massive unders on the condition a club takes Hopper and his full contract? Or trade Hopper and a first-rounder to a club that's struggling to even meet minimum cap?
You are obviously trolling, but Hopper has played well in the games he has played this season, although a bit ragged with his disposal after 6 weeks on the sidelines injured v Melbourne, he was the leading possession getter on the ground when he left the field injured and the Demons mids only got on top after Hopper went off the ground.
Richmond desperately need Hopper to be fit and playing, there is no way they would want to trade him.
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