Daniel Rioli

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Muddiemoose said:
It’s difficult to say all the same because it’s still very much dependent on who you have access to and actually pick in any particular draft and it still takes time

How long did we have our core playing together before we managed to have some success?

We got Jack in n 2006 and Dusty 2008 with the rest of our core group getting drafted between that period

If it’s about building around an elite core for when they are playing prime football you could argue that Bolton, Balta, Baker, Rioli, Taranto, Gibcus, Brown and Hopper are at a similar point we were in 2016 so if we make smart moves around recruiting around these players as a core we could be competitive in 2 - 3 years

While still having the benefit of some elite talent entering the club from this year and next years draft that will also develop in that time

Sounds a lot better than banking on a he draft for a core we may not even get by going all in on the draft
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To be pedantic, Dusty was 09. Vickery was 08.

But to put it in perspective for the core in 2016:
Jack 2006
Rance and Cotchin 2007
Dusty 2009

They were the top of our playing list going into 2016 but we also need to put into context around those players
Jack Riewoldt - During his career he kicked the second most goals for the league until he started to get injured. Can't remember where he finished up but he was only behind Franklin. This stat is over the time he was in the game not total career goals.
Alex Rance - Splits the debate as to the greatest ever Full back in the modern era and is compared to Scarlett. Also is a player that that is ranked in the top 5 defenders of all time
Trent Cotchin - One of the longest serving captains of the club. Brownlow medallist and a leader that completely changed his game style to find success.
Dustin Martin - Is part of the conversation as AFL GOAT. He may still have the record for Brownlow votes per game and is the only triple Norm Smith medallist in the game

These are all players who at one point in their career prior to the end of 2016 were listed as the top 10 players in the game.

In all honesty besides Tarranto, Bolton, Baker and maybe Gibcus (if he gets his body right) how many of those players you listed could be or have been seen as even top 20 players of the league.

So currently the top echelon of our list is magnitudes worse than what it was at the end of 2016. So for us to have a dramatic turnaround we need to first be able to have our best available players on the park and then have the core from our 2019 to 2021 drafts show astronomical improvements or our gameplan evolves and we get the most out of a little.
 
SplintWhisky said:
To be pedantic, Dusty was 09. Vickery was 08.

But to put it in perspective for the core in 2016:
Jack 2006
Rance and Cotchin 2007
Dusty 2009

They were the top of our playing list going into 2016 but we also need to put into context around those players
Jack Riewoldt - During his career he kicked the second most goals for the league until he started to get injured. Can't remember where he finished up but he was only behind Franklin. This stat is over the time he was in the game not total career goals.
Alex Rance - Splits the debate as to the greatest ever Full back in the modern era and is compared to Scarlett. Also is a player that that is ranked in the top 5 defenders of all time
Trent Cotchin - One of the longest serving captains of the club. Brownlow medallist and a leader that completely changed his game style to find success.
Dustin Martin - Is part of the conversation as AFL GOAT. He may still have the record for Brownlow votes per game and is the only triple Norm Smith medallist in the game

These are all players who at one point in their career prior to the end of 2016 were listed as the top 10 players in the game.

In all honesty besides Tarranto, Bolton, Baker and maybe Gibcus (if he gets his body right) how many of those players you listed could be or have been seen as even top 20 players of the league.

So currently the top echelon of our list is magnitudes worse than what it was at the end of 2016. So for us to have a dramatic turnaround we need to first be able to have our best available players on the park and then have the core from our 2019 to 2021 drafts show astronomical improvements or our gameplan evolves and we get the most out of a little.
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I think the issue is that we seem to think that they need a core of top 20 in the league players to be competitive or win finals and if that is truely the case the chances of uncovering that kind of talent in a small window is a fools errand

Instead of always looking at what we don’t have and trying to build from scratch it’s much better to always be looking at what we do have and build around that
 
Muddiemoose said:
I think the issue is that we seem to think that they need a core of top 20 in the league players to be competitive or win finals and if that is truely the case the chances of uncovering that kind of talent in a small window is a fools errand

Instead of always looking at what we don’t have and trying to build from scratch it’s much better to always be looking at what we do have and build around that
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To continue the building metaphor, what if all we do have is rotten and termite infested Timber and second hand and weathered screws, nails and other joinery?

From 2015 to 2023 only Collingwood and Western Bulldogs didnt have a brilliant core of Top 50 talent that made up their spine. 1 Core Key Forward that can average around 59 goals a season, 2 top 50 midfielders and 1 Core Defender are arguably the minimum to be a core that can be built on.

I would have completely different opinions if we had the same list as we did now but we had Nick Larkey instead of Lynch and one more dependable small forward who can play a role of pressure (MJR and Mansell can do it but they just end up in different postcodes to the footy when they are not on).

In that case we would have Larkey as the Forward, Bolton and Tarranto as the Mids and we would be looking for a key back that can just do their job.

Injuries and the hole in our list of young to mid aged experienced Key position players is where the list fails and the build falls over.
 

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“I’ve known Dan for 10 years. He lived with me for two or three, so it would be weird if I didn’t catch up with him when he was up here on holidays,” Hardwick said.

“So yeah we caught up and had a beer together, it was his birthday. He’s contracted to Richmond for life I reckon, so it was pretty innocent from our point of view.”
 
Tiger V said:
“I’ve known Dan for 10 years. He lived with me for two or three, so it would be weird if I didn’t catch up with him when he was up here on holidays,” Hardwick said.

“So yeah we caught up and had a beer together, it was his birthday. He’s contracted to Richmond for life I reckon, so it was pretty innocent from our point of view.”
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Gone.
 
Muddiemoose said:
Means nothing at the end of the day
Pies list is pretty average and they won the flag last year

Likewise for Geelongs when they won the flag and this year you could argue they don’t have a super impressive list
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Horror story lol.
 
Tigerbob said:
Can't lose Baker and Rioli.

I have been told he isn't wanting to leave Tigerland anyway and this is a reach of a story. He wants to be a one club player and loves the club.

He is dynamic and has the skill set needed for modern footy, he's an age we require to get our list back up. Taranto, Hopper and Rioli types bolster our list so we don't do a North. Take years to rise. Before our injury curse we were on track, competitive every week and blooding kids this year. Get rid of the butcher and we will be rocking next season.

Liam Baker is more going than staying at this point. Offer of 5 year deal at a staggering $4m and change, for him, can't turn it down. Unless we come to the party which might not make Salary cap sense for us.

Hearing we are doing a deep dive into the Freo list to see if any potential trades for players but we will be targeting first round pick early one and something else for Baker ( First and a future second or player). Very sad to lose him but it is what it is. All the noise is it will be Fremantle.
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That’s fine, as long as they pay us something good in return. 2024 was always going to be a fresh start, Jack and Trent gone. Martin soon as well. It’s about the future so bring on the draft.
 
He's not going anywhere. Baker is, but Dan is not. I would be surprized if Dusty goes anywhere either. He's more likely to retire.

Daniel is very important to our culture and for our indigenous players, in particular. His run and carry is vital and is the reason he is often one of the first players the opposition attempts to shut down from our team every week. Even if we wanted to trade him out, it would cause more damage to the fabric of the club than getting a pick, drafted an unproven youth and waiting another 5-10 years to get someone who is statistically likely to be a weaker player than Rioli anyway.
 

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Muddiemoose said:
Means nothing at the end of the day
Pies list is pretty average and they won the flag last year

Likewise for Geelongs when they won the flag and this year you could argue they don’t have a super impressive list
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those were rule change and umpires flag
 
Vassp said:
I'm still saying its the worst trade we could've had, Id be really pissed if we lost Rioli and Balker only to have TT and Hopper stay in the team. I would be hard-pressed to watch a game if this ended up being the case UNless we got some good high end draft pics.
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I didnt mind Taranto but it just felt over the top going for that second midfielder on a big money long term contract. Hopper was hardly a name that is bandied around when talking about the top players in competition.

You dont get anywhere by paying overs to get quality into your side
 
Tiger V said:
“I’ve known Dan for 10 years. He lived with me for two or three, so it would be weird if I didn’t catch up with him when he was up here on holidays,” Hardwick said.

“So yeah we caught up and had a beer together, it was his birthday. He’s contracted to Richmond for life I reckon, so it was pretty innocent from our point of view.”
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Comes down to if he said it with his s**t eating grin or not
 
Football Tragic said:
He's not going anywhere. Baker is, but Dan is not. I would be surprized if Dusty goes anywhere either. He's more likely to retire.

Daniel is very important to our culture and for our indigenous players, in particular. His run and carry is vital and is the reason he is often one of the first players the opposition attempts to shut down from our team every week. Even if we wanted to trade him out, it would cause more damage to the fabric of the club than getting a pick, drafted an unproven youth and waiting another 5-10 years to get someone who is statistically likely to be a weaker player than Rioli anyway.
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He may well be in leadership group next year
 
Tigerbob said:
Can't lose Baker and Rioli.

I have been told he isn't wanting to leave Tigerland anyway and this is a reach of a story. He wants to be a one club player and loves the club.

He is dynamic and has the skill set needed for modern footy, he's an age we require to get our list back up. Taranto, Hopper and Rioli types bolster our list so we don't do a North. Take years to rise. Before our injury curse we were on track, competitive every week and blooding kids this year. Get rid of the butcher and we will be rocking next season.

Liam Baker is more going than staying at this point. Offer of 5 year deal at a staggering $4m and change, for him, can't turn it down. Unless we come to the party which might not make Salary cap sense for us.

Hearing we are doing a deep dive into the Freo list to see if any potential trades for players but we will be targeting first round pick early one and something else for Baker ( First and a future second or player). Very sad to lose him but it is what it is. All the noise is it will be Fremantle.
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Damn. Baker is just so fun to watch with how hard he goes at it. Would be a real blow to lose him, even if the trade is fair. One of our leadership players that makes others stand up. And his kicking has been pretty elite this year from the eye test anyway. Only one lowering the eyes.
 
Tiger V said:
“I’ve known Dan for 10 years. He lived with me for two or three, so it would be weird if I didn’t catch up with him when he was up here on holidays,” Hardwick said.

“So yeah we caught up and had a beer together, it was his birthday. He’s contracted to Richmond for life I reckon, so it was pretty innocent from our point of view.”
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I don't believe anything dimma tell us.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You have to let go of all that anger RJK. Leaving your wife for another woman and doing things in slightly the wrong order is not a crime against humanity. It is just something to be sorted out between the protagonists. My then wife left me in 2007 for a Hotspurs supporter, who happened to be her ex-boyfriend. I contemplated certain courses of action in the moment that would have seen me assisting the police with their enquiries. But wise heads prevailed, I packed up my suitcase and saw the world and certain lonely wives who I pretended to believe when they said their husbands were terrible men who treated them badly, which is a pretty funny thing to say about your husband while you are shagging another man. It was right about then the penny dropped with me RJK, it is all a game that I had previously been taking a little bit too seriously. Much like you seem to be now. :)
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The issue with Hardwick stepping out on his wife is the fact that it was with a Richmond Staff member and after talking a massive game about Family and how we became a strong club by creating stronger familial bonds.

Why just cheating was an issue?
Simple, he essentially became a hypocrite in the eyes of the people he was in charge of. Go to any MBA course around the world and as soon as a leader is seen as a hypocrite it is all over. There is not really even a grey area in the situation that could of saved Hardwick. Really wasn't a winning move to do the one thing that instantly makes your "Family" schtick seem like BS. Dom Toretto would not approve.

Why was the fact it was a staff member an issue?
People like Wilson were saying that it was mitigated because "Hardwick is not her direct superior". Whilst this is true, a football club is a whole different organisational structure. It really could be argued that Hardwick is on the third tier of power under the Board and the President. These types of relationships without so much as a formal investigation is concerning from an organisational point. From there on it was insinuated that by people in the media (read Carro) and it has been floated by people here that Hardwick seemed to gain an ego and began to walk around like he owned the place. It seems like there was a perception that he did with the recruiting decisions we made.
 
SplintWhisky said:
The issue with Hardwick stepping out on his wife is the fact that it was with a Richmond Staff member and after talking a massive game about Family and how we became a strong club by creating stronger familial bonds.

Why just cheating was an issue?
Simple, he essentially became a hypocrite in the eyes of the people he was in charge of. Go to any MBA course around the world and as soon as a leader is seen as a hypocrite it is all over. There is not really even a grey area in the situation that could of saved Hardwick. Really wasn't a winning move to do the one thing that instantly makes your "Family" schtick seem like BS. Dom Toretto would not approve.

Why was the fact it was a staff member an issue?
People like Wilson were saying that it was mitigated because "Hardwick is not her direct superior". Whilst this is true, a football club is a whole different organisational structure. It really could be argued that Hardwick is on the third tier of power under the Board and the President. These types of relationships without so much as a formal investigation is concerning from an organisational point. From there on it was insinuated that by people in the media (read Carro) and it has been floated by people here that Hardwick seemed to gain an ego and began to walk around like he owned the place. It seems like there was a perception that he did with the recruiting decisions we made.
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What you are doing there is imputing the effect you think Hardwick's extra-marital activities had on Hardwick's credibility with the players. And then seemingly you are making a connection between that and Richmond's relative demise as a team since the 2020 Premiership.

Here it is represented in objective facts...

1. Richmond won the 2020 Premiership when it is perfectly possible players and others in the hub were aware of the "affair"

2. Richmond's w/l record under Hardwick post the hub Premiership when players were certainly aware of the "affair" was 25w-3d-27l

3. Richmond's w/l record since the scurge of the philandering coach was finally removed is 8w-11l


Can you see clear evidence in those results that Hardwick's extra-marital affair harmed the football team's performance? I can't.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
What you are doing there is imputing the effect you think Hardwick's extra-marital activities had on Hardwick's credibility with the players. And then seemingly you are making a connection between that and Richmond's relative demise as a team since the 2020 Premiership.

Here it is represented in objective facts...

1. Richmond won the 2020 Premiership when it is perfectly possible players and others in the hub were aware of the "affair"

2. Richmond's w/l record under Hardwick post the hub Premiership when players were certainly aware of the "affair" was 25w-3d-27l

3. Richmond's w/l record since the scurge of the philandering coach was finally removed is 8w-11l


Can you see clear evidence in those results that Hardwick's extra-marital affair harmed the football team's performance? I can't.
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Fwiw I think he coached terribly in ‘23 you can talk all you like about relationships but he legit had his head up his clacker. Zero foresight in terms of shaping a new side , one debutant in 10w , couldnt score . I can’t believe this year he’s debuting a new player just about every week which underlines my first point , he had his head up his clacker last year
 
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