COVID-19 / Coronavirus

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TheFourPillars said:
Interestingly Pfizer once again in the list of most ethical companies

worldsmostethicalcompanies.com

2022 World's Most Ethical Companies List

Ethisphere® Institute 2022 World’s Most Ethical Companies® Honoree List
worldsmostethicalcompanies.com worldsmostethicalcompanies.com

It is a list of 136 honorees from 22 countries and 45 different industries
Click to expand...
In 2009, Pfizer was fined $2.3 billion for being found guilty of fraud.
This was the largest health care settlement in history.

www.justice.gov

Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History

American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together “Pfizer”) have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from...
www.justice.gov www.justice.gov

Do you believe the practices that led them to be fined this extraordinary sum were ethical and could not have occured before or since?


Have you investigated Ethisphere?
I wonder if there are any conflicts of interest within their organisation which could influence their awards?

I notice that recognition is by application.
Do you think there is no scenario where recognition could be bought.

I find it extremely hard to believe that Pfizer has gone from one of the least ethical companies in 2009 to one of the most today, all while recording increasing profits.
 

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Gralin said:
Read what I wrote not what you think I wrote.

By your logic here they'd not have been making vaccines, just pills to treat symptoms
Click to expand...
You are right. Vaccines are distinct from other drugs in that they are marketed as a preventative measure.

However, I am questioning the necessity of this measure as it has never been proven by the scientific method that virus is the cause of disease.

I would again challenge anyone to find a study which proves it does.
For an apparent, obvious and irrefutable fact, this should be extremely easy.


I will share with you a study that failed to prove that a virus is contagious and the cause of disease.

A study called "Experiments to Determine Mode of Spread of Influenza" published in the Journal of the American Medical Association was conducted during the Spanish Flu pandemic, which was of course regarded as the worst in history.

jamanetwork.com

EXPERIMENTS TO DETERMINE MODE OF SPREAD OF INFLUENZA

The experiments here described were performed on an island in Boston Harbor, on volunteers obtained from the Navy. The work was conducted by a group of officers detailed for that purpose, from the U. S. Navy and the U. S. Public Health Service, consisting of Dr. G. W. McCoy, director of the...
jamanetwork.com jamanetwork.com

Doctors took mucous secretions from sick patients and administered it directly into 100 healthy subjects.
They then took blood from sick patients and injected it into the blood of the healthy subjects.
No one became ill as a result of this.

Not one.

A quote from the study's author:

“We entered the outbreak with a notion that we knew the cause of the disease, and were quite sure we knew how it was transmitted from person to person. Perhaps, if we have learned anything, it is that we are not quite sure what we know about the disease."


Viruses cause disease?

Does anyone here have any evidence, not hearsay, opinion or news articles, that they do?
 
mount eerie said:
You are right. Vaccines are distinct from other drugs in that they are marketed as a preventative measure.

However, I am questioning the necessity of this measure as it has never been proven by the scientific method that virus is the cause of disease.

I would again challenge anyone to find a study which proves it does.
For an apparent, obvious and irrefutable fact, this should be extremely easy.


I will share with you a study that failed to prove that a virus is contagious and the cause of disease.

A study called "Experiments to Determine Mode of Spread of Influenza" published in the Journal of the American Medical Association was conducted during the Spanish Flu pandemic, which was of course regarded as the worst in history.

jamanetwork.com

EXPERIMENTS TO DETERMINE MODE OF SPREAD OF INFLUENZA

The experiments here described were performed on an island in Boston Harbor, on volunteers obtained from the Navy. The work was conducted by a group of officers detailed for that purpose, from the U. S. Navy and the U. S. Public Health Service, consisting of Dr. G. W. McCoy, director of the...
jamanetwork.com jamanetwork.com

Doctors took mucous secretions from sick patients and administered it directly into 100 healthy subjects.
They then took blood from sick patients and injected it into the blood of the healthy subjects.
No one became ill as a result of this.

Not one.

A quote from the study's author:

“We entered the outbreak with a notion that we knew the cause of the disease, and were quite sure we knew how it was transmitted from person to person. Perhaps, if we have learned anything, it is that we are not quite sure what we know about the disease."


Viruses cause disease?

Does anyone here have any evidence, not hearsay, opinion or news articles, that they do?
Click to expand...
So you're issue is that what, covid isn't transmissible because 100 years ago medical science couldn't prove something to your satisfaction?
 
mount eerie said:
In 2009, Pfizer was fined $2.3 billion for being found guilty of fraud.
This was the largest health care settlement in history.

www.justice.gov

Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History

American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together “Pfizer”) have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from...
www.justice.gov www.justice.gov

Do you believe the practices that led them to be fined this extraordinary sum were ethical and could not have occured before or since?


Have you investigated Ethisphere?
I wonder if there are any conflicts of interest within their organisation which could influence their awards?

I notice that recognition is by application.
Do you think there is no scenario where recognition could be bought.

I find it extremely hard to believe that Pfizer has gone from one of the least ethical companies in 2009 to one of the most today, all while recording increasing profits.
Click to expand...
Have u read into at all. What has happened in this past is irrelevant now. Companies evolve and improve their processes. They also improve as an organisation. I'm sure there were consequences for the issue u brought up. How many of the top level execs have remained at pfizer since then has there been a change of leadership. Pfizer is still about making money no company in the world isnt unless they are a charity.

Yes ppl do dodgy things all the time and its not confined to the pharmaceutical industry i mean look at Boeing. They have damaged their reputation recently but what they did in the past is still great and maybe they may gain the respect back from deeds in the future. One mistake or several can be overcome in the future ppl and companies move on and learn if they want to continue to do business
 
Gralin said:
So you're issue is that what, covid isn't transmissible because 100 years ago medical science couldn't prove something to your satisfaction?
Click to expand...
It's not that it couldn't prove something to my satisfaction, it couldn't prove what it set out to at all.

Do you have any evidence that viruses cause disease.
Science has proved it, right?
 
mount eerie said:
It's not that it couldn't prove something to my satisfaction, it couldn't prove what it set out to at all.

Do you have any evidence that viruses cause disease.
Science has proved it, right?
Click to expand...
So your checkmate is a 1918 study that proved in 1918 they didn't understand influenza because they were looking for bacterial microbes

You think this somehow proves viruses can't cause disease?
 
I do find this more illuminating on what was going on back then
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The State of Science, Microbiology, and Vaccines Circa 1918

The influenza pandemic of 1918–1919 dramatically altered biomedical knowledge of the disease. At its onset, the foundation of scientific knowledge was information collected during the previous major pandemic of 1889–1890. The work of Otto ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


It took the invention of the electron microscope for them to work out what caused influenza, 1931 it was created
 
Gralin said:
So your checkmate is a 1918 study that proved in 1918 they didn't understand influenza because they were looking for bacterial microbes

You think this somehow proves viruses can't cause disease?
Click to expand...
You believe that germs are contagious and cause disease.
This study failed to prove that, and convincingly so.

Do you take issue with the method used?
How would you improve upon it?
Has there been a similar study since with contrary results?
 
Gralin said:
I do find this more illuminating on what was going on back then
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The State of Science, Microbiology, and Vaccines Circa 1918

The influenza pandemic of 1918–1919 dramatically altered biomedical knowledge of the disease. At its onset, the foundation of scientific knowledge was information collected during the previous major pandemic of 1889–1890. The work of Otto ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


It took the invention of the electron microscope for them to work out what caused influenza, 1931 it was created
Click to expand...
It took the invention of the electron microscope for them to identify a virus particle visually.

A virus particle is present a diseased tissue sample, so it must be the cause of that disease?
Since when does correlation equal causation?

Where is the single study since 1931 which has drawn a sample of diseased tissue containing a virus particle, isolated it in accordance with Koch's postulates or the more refined River's postulates, administered it to a healthy subject, and observed an identical replication of symptoms?
 
Yeah we're done with that discussion mount eerie

Covid is a virus, viruses can cause diseases and other health issues, in 1918 they thought influenza was bacterial


We also saw in just the last 3 years medicine get a better understanding of how airborne transmission occurs when physicists got involved because covid wasn't behaving the way doctors thought it would

Science doesn't always get it right clearly but you're running with one 104 year old study as proof that this is all a big lie
 

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mount snrub said:
Wow, this guy is saying some pretty radical, controversial and challenging stuff.

Is he even qualified to present these arguments?

Maybe he should let ACTUAL medical doctors weigh in on this?!?

Click to expand...

mount snrub said:
Does anyone else here like the way Snrub thinks?
Click to expand...
This isolation misinformation has already been debunked online. The virus has been isolated in creating the vaccine
 
mount eerie said:
You believe that germs are contagious and cause disease.
This study failed to prove that, and convincingly so.

Do you take issue with the method used?
How would you improve upon it?
Has there been a similar study since with contrary results?
Click to expand...
Failing to prove something is true does not mean you have proved that something is not true.

What are you trying to say?
 
mount eerie said:
I am finding a pattern on this forum which stems from the top moderators down, at that is resorting to name calling and ridicule when they are confronted by the content of a post.

Is that the standard you are striving for as leaders of a community?

Wouldn't the term moderator mean you should be moderate in response to opinions which may differ to yours?
Click to expand...
Interesting comments thanks

PS: Now the family is all vaxed we are all going to Bali in May. It’s going to be

1647468227535.gif

Any travel plans for you ? No?

1647468314350.gif
 
Sixpence said:
As far as alt accounts go, this one was pretty funny!


We're going in May too! Late May.
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It’s great to be vaccinated hey? You don’t die and you can do heaps of s**t that you couldn’t do otherwise. My family are happy to sheeple it up

Diddums to dickheads who think a cabal of liberal pedophiles and Jews magically co-opted the entire scientific community to make up climate change and a pandemic and only Trump/Putin/Clive Palmer/Gary Ablett can save us. Enjoy your non holidays and suck s**t I say.
 
TheFourPillars said:
This isolation misinformation has already been debunked online. The virus has been isolated in creating the vaccine
Click to expand...
btw Bumpswithagrin don't just read facebook refer to these articles

www.cdc.gov

Labs

COVID-19 resources and guidelines for labs and laboratory workers.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
www.reuters.com

Fact check: The virus that causes COVID-19 has been isolated, and is the basis for the vaccines currently in development

Social media posts have suggested that the contents of the vaccines for COVID-19 are not known, because the virus that causes the disease has not been isolated. This is not true.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

and

First isolation of SARS-CoV-2 outside China wins national research prize

First isolation of SARS-CoV-2 outside China wins national research prize
www.mja.com.au www.mja.com.au
 
Last edited:
BurnaHawks said:
In 2009 US Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History Pfizer Paid $2.3 Billion including a $1.3 billion criminal fine. Very Ethical
Click to expand...
Lol u guys get the same information word for word. I have already replied to this from someone else in this thread. This sort of behaviour is not exclusive to pharmaceuticals. Boeing and VW come to mind straight away. What matters is what is current day 2022 many years on
 
The only thing I will say on Pfizer is that being greedy capitalist pigs that price gouge doesn't mean their product doesn't work, it just means they are greedy capitalist pigs, like pretty much every large for profit out there
 
Gralin said:
The only thing I will say on Pfizer is that being greedy capitalist pigs that price gouge doesn't mean their product doesn't work, it just means they are greedy capitalist pigs, like pretty much every large for profit out there
Click to expand...
Every large corporation is in it to make money. You take that for granted
 
TheFourPillars said:
Every large corporation is in it to make money. You take that for granted
Click to expand...
there's making money and then there is making money

I'm glad we've got the vaccine and there are smart people with good intentions working at Pfizer but I've worked for more than one pharma and more than one large US owned corporation and I know how they role with ethics

my current employer is also on that list of most ethical companies, I've worked for more than one company on that list and I've worked with several others, I also see companies on that list that have terrible records with how they treat their own staff

I'm sure they all have lots of good people working for them and compared to a lot of other businesses out there they may be better, but that doesn't mean I'd trust any of them to do the right thing for altruistic reasons, for profit sure but there is nothing ethical about that
 
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