News Billy Frampton signs with Collingwood

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McRae: Get up off the ground. You might have lost but you're not losers

Hinkley: geez finals are scary and footy ain't that important, sonny boy.

This has everything to do with why Frampton has a premiership medal and Robbie Gray does not. Frampton didn't play well but he knew his role and did his job.
 
Launchpad McQuack said:
McRae: Get up off the ground. You might have lost but you're not losers

Hinkley: geez finals are scary and footy ain't that important, sonny boy.

This has everything to do with why Frampton has a premiership medal and Robbie Gray does not. Frampton didn't play well but he knew his role and did his job.
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No, Frampton sucked and failed at his role, probably the worst performance on Grand Final day for 20 years, but the rest of the team was so good that it didn't matter. Which is why blaming the fact that we had Lycett and McKenzie's corpses playing for us in our finals is no excuse. Good teams can overcome poor performances from one or two depth players.
 
Schulzenfest said:
No, Frampton sucked and failed at his role, probably the worst performance on Grand Final day for 20 years, but the rest of the team was so good that it didn't matter. Which is why blaming the fact that we had Lycett and McKenzie's corpses playing for us in our finals is no excuse. Good teams can overcome poor performances from one or two depth players.
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I said he didn't play well. Him being on the field limited Andrews's impact in the first three quarters. Andrews obviously finally figured out he didn't need to be accountable for Frampton in the final quarter. It was enough, in the end.
 

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Portology said:
Winner of the Cam Mooney award for the least important contribution to a flag on Grand Final day, well done Billy!
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I thought Alistair Lynch would have been a better comparison, especially since it was against Port in 04 and Lynch played the worst GF ever with his only contribution being a free against him to Port.
 
Janus said:
Here’s a question for you and the 17 other people who liked your post:

If you replaced Moore, Murphy, Howe, Quaynor, Maynard and Markov with Aliir, McKenzie, Jones, Houston, Burton and Williams…and McKenzie gets subbed off in the first quarter…do you think Collingwood wins that game against Brisbane?

If your answer is anything but “* no, our defence sucked this year” then you’re not being honest.

Now reverse that - if Collingwood had a forward line of Dixon, Marshall, Finlayson, Rioli, Powell-Pepper and Byrne-Jones, do you think they’d struggle to produce the 5 goals that the Collingwood forward line put together?

If your answer is anything but “I doubt it if De Goey, Pendlebury, Daicos and Sidebottom are feeding them the ball”, then again, you’re not being honest.

I think our midfield will get there with time. I think our defence needs a lot of work, hence the pursuit of Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher. If it costs a first round pick, it costs a first round pick, because it’s a problem that needs to be addressed regardless of who the coach is.

I don’t think we have spuds on our list. But we don’t have many role players who can consistently do a job either. And that makes it ******* hard for a young midfield to do more work than necessary.
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Consistency is about culture and coaching. With McRae as our coach, I think we win the flag.

If Port and Collingwood swapped lists, do you think we win the flag this season? Do you think Hinkley is extracting consistent solid performances from the 15th-30th best players on Collingwood's list?

Is Hinkley getting the midfield to show up in big finals? He didn't this year despite having a star studded midfield full of All Australians, a Brownlow medallist and the most promising teenager in the game. They got rolled twice. That's not talent. It's not even experience. It's just a completely botched mental.preparation.
 
A forward line of Billy Frampton, Bobby Hill, Jamie Elliott, Mason Cox, Brody Mihocek, Beau McCreery and Jack Ginnivan just kicked a winning score on Grand Final day.

And we’re still debating the ratio of Ken Hinkley’s coaching acumen against talent at his disposal.

lol.
 
Janus said:
Here’s a question for you and the 17 other people who liked your post:

If you replaced Moore, Murphy, Howe, Quaynor, Maynard and Markov with Aliir, McKenzie, Jones, Houston, Burton and Williams…and McKenzie gets subbed off in the first quarter…do you think Collingwood wins that game against Brisbane?

If your answer is anything but “* no, our defence sucked this year” then you’re not being honest.

Now reverse that - if Collingwood had a forward line of Dixon, Marshall, Finlayson, Rioli, Powell-Pepper and Byrne-Jones, do you think they’d struggle to produce the 5 goals that the Collingwood forward line put together?

If your answer is anything but “I doubt it if De Goey, Pendlebury, Daicos and Sidebottom are feeding them the ball”, then again, you’re not being honest.

I think our midfield will get there with time. I think our defence needs a lot of work, hence the pursuit of Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher. If it costs a first round pick, it costs a first round pick, because it’s a problem that needs to be addressed regardless of who the coach is.

I don’t think we have spuds on our list. But we don’t have many role players who can consistently do a job either. And that makes it ******* hard for a young midfield to do more work than necessary.
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You know what gets role players consistently doing a job.

Good coaching.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Schulzenfest said:
No, Frampton sucked and failed at his role, probably the worst performance on Grand Final day for 20 years, but the rest of the team was so good that it didn't matter. Which is why blaming the fact that we had Lycett and McKenzie's corpses playing for us in our finals is no excuse. Well well coached teams can overcome poor performances from one or two depth players.
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FTFY 😀
 
GoldbergsGold said:
I thought Alistair Lynch would have been a better comparison, especially since it was against Port in 04 and Lynch played the worst GF ever with his only contribution being a free against him to Port.
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Lynch’s true “input” that glorious day in 2004 day is hidden behind traditional stats - at 47% game time someone still had to follow him around or at least be aware of his positioning.

Cam Mooney didn’t even get on the ground in 1999, hence the naming of this trophy in his honour ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
EskimoPAFC said:
With McRae as coach? Definitely.
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You’re giving a definitive answer to a hypothetical question?

The last time McRae coached a team that was missing Moore against Brisbane, they lost by 24 points. That is a fact, not a hypothetical. He will struggle with key players missing just like we do.
EskimoPAFC said:
With Hinkley as coach? Definitely not, with or without McKenzie.
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I think it will be different with Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher. The difference between Collingwood’s key defenders and ours is apart from Aliir, theirs are more mobile and can cover more ground.

In fact, I think the main reason why the club got rid of Bassett is because they need a change of philosophy in who supports who. Bassett believes that the midfield should fold back and support the defenders. When Hinkley first got here, he had the philosophy of the defence pushing up the ground to assist the midfield.

You can do that if you've got 2-3 intercept key defenders + a mobile ruck sitting back for the dump kick as your half backs and mids combine with the forwards to compress the ground. You can't do it if you've got 1.5 intercept defenders and a hobbled ruck that can't get back and defend.
 
Janus said:
The difference between Collingwood’s key defenders and ours is apart from Aliir, theirs are more mobile and can cover more ground.

In fact, I think the main reason why the club got rid of Bassett is because they need a change of philosophy in who supports who. Bassett believes that the midfield should fold back and support the defenders. When Hinkley first got here, he had the philosophy of the defence pushing up the ground to assist the midfield.
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Sidebottom, Pendles, Crisp and the Daicos brothers fold back as midfielders so often now to help their defence, then provide run and overlap to initiate run from the backlines.

Imagine us doing that!!!!!

Phoooaaarrr.
 
Janus said:
I don’t think we have spuds on our list. But we don’t have many role players who can consistently do a job either. And that makes it ******* hard for a young midfield to do more work than necessary.
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We don't have many role players because we don't have a reproducible system other than bomb it in the forward line and hold it there. The only useful role in a Hinkley team is being a naturally gifted mercurial player. In his 'lack' of system any player without the natural talent of Wingard, Gray, Rozee, Butters etc. is destined to plateau and look like a good honest trier at best.
We also repeatedly pick undersized midfielders and play them as small forwards so the guys with the most potential to be role players we do have are played out of position.
good systems make average players look good. Not the other way around.
You repeatedly argue things after the fact as though they were obvious all along. The only thing you seem to be sure about looking forward is that Hinkley is a decent coach but you've been kicking that can for at least 6 years too long
 
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Janus said:
You’re giving a definitive answer to a hypothetical question?

The last time McRae coached a team that was missing Moore against Brisbane, they lost by 24 points. That is a fact, not a hypothetical. He will struggle with key players missing just like we do.
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There is a massive difference between a H&A game and a final.
Janus said:
I think it will be different with Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher. The difference between Collingwood’s key defenders and ours is apart from Aliir, theirs are more mobile and can cover more ground.

In fact, I think the main reason why the club got rid of Bassett is because they need a change of philosophy in who supports who. Bassett believes that the midfield should fold back and support the defenders. When Hinkley first got here, he had the philosophy of the defence pushing up the ground to assist the midfield.

You can do that if you've got 2-3 intercept key defenders + a mobile ruck sitting back for the dump kick as your half backs and mids combine with the forwards to compress the ground. You can't do it if you've got 1.5 intercept defenders and a hobbled ruck that can't get back and defend.
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I think Rat and BZT are excellent pickups.

Also agree on Bassett, we do need a change.

What I'm saying is that we keep tinkering around the edges when its clear the biggest part of our list that needs an upgrade is our head coach. We will underperform in every final and big game, just like we have since 2015, as long as he remains in that role.
 
Imagine genuinely believing that Zerk-Thatcher is going to be an upgrade on McKenzie.
 
Janus said:
You’re giving a definitive answer to a hypothetical question?

The last time McRae coached a team that was missing Moore against Brisbane, they lost by 24 points. That is a fact, not a hypothetical. He will struggle with key players missing just like we do.
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Were we forced to play anyone this year as bad as Frampton's performance in the GF?

Teakle was as bad IMO but we weren't forced to play him, we chose to.

I think it will be different with Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher. The difference between Collingwood’s key defenders and ours is apart from Aliir, theirs are more mobile and can cover more ground.
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Ratugolea and Zerk-Thatcher are prime examples of the kinds of players you'd use as an excuse for more failure.

A 3rd and 4th round pick. One who couldn't hold down a spot in a side that didn't make the 8, the other won the reverse Coleman.

In fact, I think the main reason why the club got rid of Bassett is because they need a change of philosophy in who supports who. Bassett believes that the midfield should fold back and support the defenders. When Hinkley first got here, he had the philosophy of the defence pushing up the ground to assist the midfield.
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The defenders didn't push high up the ground in 2013-15, the entire team sat deep in an almost flood and left space for the slingshot to break into. We changed it after 2015 because teams sat loose players in defence to cut off the slingshot and ground us out and we lost a stack of games. Still didn't decide to have a functional forward setup though.

Bassett and Hinkley have worked together for 8 years. The idea that they have a significant clash in football philosophy is silly.

You can do that if you've got 2-3 intercept key defenders + a mobile ruck sitting back for the dump kick as your half backs and mids combine with the forwards to compress the ground. You can't do it if you've got 1.5 intercept defenders and a hobbled ruck that can't get back and defend.
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The hobbled ruck didn't have to play. One of the all time horrendous selection decisions to bring him back in late in the season, both at the stoppages and around the ground. Lycett has never been a good dump kick ruckman.

We made a specific decision to play a smaller, more mobile defence when we began to leave Jonas out. We sacrificed intercept marking for ball movement. Every team has to make these calls. Collingwood made the call to play a poor KPF in the GF because structurally the physical presence was more important than skill. Is a sore McKenzie worse than Frampton?

Regardless, it didn't matter. We lost both finals in the midfield, where we had our best players available, and we lost because of the same fear that sees us play like s**t in big games year in year out.
 
PAFC66 said:
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Ken truly has a knack for saying some of the most arrogant s**t for someone who's achieved literally * all. This one and what he said about GWS and how we thumped them in the H&A season have both backfired perfectly in his face because we got thumped by GWS the second time around and Collingwood got to be ranked #1 in September. Any time he makes a confident and arrogant comment you can just be sure the opposite of what he's implying will happen. On the same token he seemed confident that our result would be worse with non-injured players playing so you just know the opposite is true and we might have actually won.
 
At the end of the day, once you're in the AFL the only thing you play for is a premiership.

I'd rather have the career of Billy Frampton than one of Tom Jonas or DBJ.
 
Imagine how much that photo would sting Travis Boak Or Robbie Gray.

* this club.
 
PAFC66 said:
Imagine how much that photo would sting Travis Boak Or Robbie Gray.

* this club.
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I'm honestly not even sure it would.

The cult of Port is so far gone they might just think "Yeah but did he make his community proud", or "He had the advantage of playing for a big club rather than the little team from Alberton"
 
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