NT Alice Springs: 2024 Curfew

[burge13]

I don’t want Aboriginals people treated any different. I want the horrendous gap in education, health, life expectancy and health literacy to close. I want the many Aboriginals in this country who are beaten and broken by a system that destroyed many of them to gain self belief and pride and to realise they are not the Sub species they have been treated like. I want Aboriginal communities to be self managing. I wsnt Aboriginal youths to be engaged and active and able ti walk in both worlds. That what I want. I won’t even broach the ‘fit in’ comment.

Education, what are the truancy rates compared to others?
Health, what amount of this boils down to rural living
Every health network has specific aboriginal health departments (with more FTE per patient than any other culture or group) in SA so it isn't like alot isn't being done to help here. Given this and many departments in the same boat, at what point are the people responsible for change themselves?

I don't believe anyone is treated as a sub species, that's an awful accusation against everyone else. Expecting some level of accountability or responsibility isn't being treated as that.

Self-managing, how is that really going to look? And how self managing, there's still society you need to be involved in to close the gaps...

I already explained the 'fit in' bit, you know full well I meant nothing by that as I explained.

 

[burge13]

I see the mayor already wants to extend the curfew and we're not talking about it being circuit breaker anymore. If he's not capable of coming up with any better solution than this perhaps he should think about handing the job over to someone with a little more imagination.

Got his play book from Dan Andrews lol

 

[Kram]

If the curfew actually helps the situation why wouldn't you want to extend it a bit. 6pm is very early though, why not make it 8 or something.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Education, what are the truancy rates compared to others?
Health, what amount of this boils down to rural living
Every health network has specific aboriginal health departments (with more FTE per patient than any other culture or group) in SA so it isn't like alot isn't being done to help here. Given this and many departments in the same boat, at what point are the people responsible for change themselves?

I don't believe anyone is treated as a sub species, that's an awful accusation against everyone else. Expecting some level of accountability or responsibility isn't being treated as that.

Self-managing, how is that really going to look? And how self managing, there's still society you need to be involved in to close the gaps...

I already explained the 'fit in' bit, you know full well I meant nothing by that as I explained.

Truancy rates - Gee I wonder why Aboriginal kids are truant from a system that does not cater for them.

Health - then it is ineffective and not working as Aboriginals do not live as long. The system is not close to working. The Health of Aboriginals in remote areas is far worse than non Aboriginals in remote areas.

Sub species- I never said everyone treats Aboriginals as a sub species, but many Aboriginal people have been treated as a sub species. Yes you don’t believe anyone treats Aboriginals as a subspecies. Easy to say when you haven’t been treated that way. It has happened and still happens all the time. Attitudes are different for Aboriginals also. Walk down the street and see a group of well dressed teenage girls getting drunk and then let’s see the difference in attitude if you see a group of Aboriginals getting drunk.

 

[Kram]

Truancy rates - Gee I wonder why Aboriginal kids are truant from a system that does not cater for them.

Whilst I strongly support the funding and creation of more indigenous focused schools with tailored curriculums, there is no reason why kids shouldn't be attending schools that cater for everybody.

 

[burge13]

Truancy rates - Gee I wonder why Aboriginal kids are truant from a system that does not cater for them.

Health - then it is ineffective and not working as Aboriginals do not live as long. The system is not close to working. The Health of Aboriginals in remote areas is far worse than non Aboriginals in remote areas.

Sub species- I never said everyone treats Aboriginals as a sub species, but many Aboriginal people have been treated as a sub species. Yes you don’t believe anyone treats Aboriginals as a subspecies. Easy to say when you haven’t been treated that way. It has happened and still happens all the time. Attitudes are different for Aboriginals also. Walk down the street and see a group of well dressed teenage girls getting drunk and then let’s see the difference in attitude if you see a group of Aboriginals getting drunk.

Dont want to be treated differently but want schools catered to them?

Why is this? Is it genetic? If not, it has to be diet/alcohol/exercise etc?

Bolded is a very fair point.

 

[Captivating]

You're not misreading this folks: He is comparing Indigenous people to the Nazi empire

Next time you think of posting early in the morning, don't.

 

[Chief]

Did you win the long jump frequently at school?

The ball is in the crim's court.

Don't offend, don't end up in jail.

Keep offending, keep ending up in jail.

Assuming of course that sooner or later a government will actually make some sentencing laws with teeth, rather than giving the judiciary the option of allowing grubs with massive rap sheets back out into the community after ludicrously short times in custody - if at all.

Every study done on sentencing, when everyday people are given the facts of a case, people more often suggest lighter sentences than the law provides for or the judge in the case gives.

Anger at sentencing is usually the result of lack of information about the law and the facts. Misleading stories hyped up up by sensationalist news shows and populist politicians.

 

[Chief]

ElectricG you don't agree that the studies exist?

 

[ElectricG]

ElectricG you don't agree that the studies exist?

I’m sure they do, but would hazard a guess that they have a focus on the outcomes for the perpetrators rather than the victims.

 

[Chief]

I’m sure they do, but would hazard a guess that they have a focus on the outcomes for the perpetrators rather than the victims.

How do you mean?

 

[ElectricG]

How do you mean?

That the studies show lighter sentences result in less reoffending.

 

[Borisdog]

Anger at sentencing also is a result of repeatedly having to “sentence” the same criminals over and over again. And having them then repeat the same crimes or worse upon release, and often while on bail.

Chief might be able to shed some light on that though. After all, Chief's all over every sentencing study ever done apparently.

As for the nasty media beating this stuff up, oh yeah it happens absolutely.

But that doesn’t mean that the violent home invasions, car thefts, car jacking, ramming businesses AND cop cars, bashing thefts of elderly people by REPEAT offenders who have already had multiple short custodial sentences are figments of the imagination of the residents and victims.

I want governments to reduce the amount of crime victims. Having a study and a couple of round table discussions with a view of reducing crime rates in 15 years does * all for the here and now issue.

 

[Chief]

Anger at sentencing also is a result of repeatedly having to “sentence” the same criminals over and over again. And having the repeat the same crimes or worse.

I don't know much about that.

In any population, people who continually repeat serious crimes will be a minority. Smaller crimes will be higher than that. Giving outsized sentences for minor crimes because of an overwhelmed legal system isn't the answer.

I listened to a report a while ago about legal representation in remote areas being a detriment to justice. This one is about Alice Springs:

Chief might be able to shed some light on that though. After all, they’re all over every sentencing study ever done apparently.

How you could have read that into what I wrote, I do not know.

 

[Borisdog]

I don't know much about that.

In any population, people who continually repeat serious crimes will be a minority. Smaller crimes will be higher than that. Giving outsized sentences for minor crimes because of an overwhelmed legal system isn't the answer.

I listened to a report a while ago about legal representation in remote areas being a detriment to justice. This one is about Alice Springs:





..........................How you could have read that into what I wrote, I do not know.

"Every study done on sentencing"................

Kinda gives the impression you know it to be fact, don't you agree?

Or - perish the thought, you were using a bit of hyperbole.

Every study done on sentencing, when everyday people are given the facts of a case, people more often suggest lighter sentences than the law provides for or the judge in the case gives.

Anger at sentencing is usually the result of lack of information about the law and the facts. Misleading stories hyped up up by sensationalist news shows and populist politicians.

 

[Chief]

Every study done on sentencing, when everyday people are given the facts of a case, people more often suggest lighter sentences than the law provides for or the judge in the case gives.

This is the type of study I was talking about.

Disingenuous to pretend I didn't say that.

Can get links.

 

[Chief]

Here is something related that might be interesting:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/769977/research-brief-understanding-of-sentencing-community-knowledge-of-sentencing-terms-and-outcomes-website-2.pdf

People often don't understand sentencing terms.

They estimate lighter sentences.


So we often think that courts are too lenient for Y crime, and give X as an appropriate sentence.

Then find out the actual sentence is X * n.

People who should know - journalists, professional opinion-givers, and law makers - often misrepresent and agitate, amplifying ignorance instead of educating and fostering understanding.

 

[Chief]

(Not gonna do a mic drop GIF.)

 

[ElectricG]

Here is something related that might be interesting:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/769977/research-brief-understanding-of-sentencing-community-knowledge-of-sentencing-terms-and-outcomes-website-2.pdf

People often don't understand sentencing terms.

They estimate lighter sentences.

View attachment 1949468
So we often think that courts are too lenient for Y crime, and give X as an appropriate sentence.

Then find out the actual sentence is X * n.

People who should know - journalists, professional opinion-givers, and law makers - often misrepresent and agitate, amplifying ignorance instead of educating and fostering understanding.

This report is just one of those YouTube street gotcha question videos but in pdf format

 

[Chief]

This report is just one of those YouTube street gotcha question videos but in pdf format

What a bizarre reaction.

 

[Borisdog]

This is the type of study I was talking about.

Disingenuous to pretend I didn't say that.

Can get links.

It's also disingenuous to pretend that you know "Every study done on sentencing, when everyday people are given the facts of a case", and to add codicils after your hyperbole is called out.

You couldn't possibly know that you do.

I, too, will refrain from the "mic drop"

I'm all for educating "fostering and understanding", as long as that happens to VICTIM's needs also.

Like, I dunno, maybe reducing the amount of repeat offenders in circulation at any given moment after they've been found guilty AGAIN.

 

[Gough]

It's also disingenuous to pretend that you know "Every study done on sentencing, when everyday people are given the facts of a case", and to add codicils after your hyperbole is called out.

You couldn't possibly know that you do.

I, too, will refrain from the "mic drop"

I'm all for educating "fostering and understanding", as long as that happens to VICTIM's needs also.

Like, I dunno, maybe reducing the amount of repeat offenders in circulation at any given moment after they've been found guilty AGAIN.

How much more money would you like to see heading to prison services nationwide then to ensure that prisoners are properly rehabilitated and critical care needs in custody can be properly met? This whole thing needs to be holistic and it feels like we're heavily policing one part of the problem while ignoring lots of others.

 

[Gough]

Indigenous deaths in custody: key recommendations still not fully implemented

Deloitte review of deaths in custody reveals that only two-thirds of landmark royal commission’s recommendations have been fully implemented

www.theguardian.com

Article is old but I doubt much has changed.

 

[ElectricG]

How much more money would you like to see heading to prison services nationwide then to ensure that prisoners are properly rehabilitated and critical care needs in custody can be properly met? This whole thing needs to be holistic and it feels like we're heavily policing one part of the problem while ignoring lots of others.

Won’t someone please think of the burglars and carjackers

 

[Chief]

It's also disingenuous to pretend that you know "Every study done on sentencing, when everyday people are given the facts of a case", and to add codicils after your hyperbole is called out.

You couldn't possibly know that you do.

I have not found one that doesn't show this. I assume they would be highlighted by the ones I've seen. So I assume none show this to be false. If you know of one, please post.