Player Watch #34: Jack Graham - Part 2

[_RT_]

You're right RT he is a role player.
Role players only exceed when they have a subsection of star players around them.
Considering we don't have that, his true ability shines through and is subsequently exposed. He is currently playing in a position that is literally robbing minutes from the likes of McAuliffe etc who are going to be the future of this club.
I don't think anyone can tell me with a straight face that Jack Graham has a future at this club beyond 2025. If it was me, he'd be gone at years end.

Right now Graham is being asked to be a number 1 or 2 midfielder in a side that is fielding a large number of unproven midfielders and that's not his game. Grahams strengths are his tank and his defensive game, as that was what he built his early career on when we were flying, he is also reasonable with his ball use when he does get it. So in a midfield group that is built around Taranto Hopper Ross Dow Sonsie & McAuliffe I could see him being that defensive midfielder who provides coverage while the others focus on winning the footy. So I can see a role and a future for him but I wouldn't be overpaying to keep him at the club, in a similar way to how we let Brandon walk when he wanted more than we were willing to pay.

 

[_RT_]

Jack Graham is not a good enough inside mid to carry a position in there in our current team. As a high half forward as part of a class midfield structure that will take care of the dirty work to let the Butters Rozees Horne-Francis's etc do their thing, Jack Graham is your man.

Before Willem Drew was Ports midfield grunt, Jack Graham was ours, we should try and get him back into that role again.

 

[bluehouse]

Would be a good get for Tassie, plying his trade on rain-affected ground like a 48-rater stayer running over 2800m at Warrnambool in July.

I’ve said many times I’ve seen faster steeplechasers


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[TigerImposter]

Wow you’re really out of touch with this one.

He’s always out of touch and he even backed our medicos in on the Judson Clarke utensil up. Just tows the company line spinning propaganda hoping it will all change. As we all witnessed after 2016 improvements will not happen unless you become ruthless and oust all mediocrity that breeds like a toxic bacteria inside the place.

 

[sante]

His start to his career put expectations on him through the roof. He was never going to be a star.

 

[_RT_]

His start to his career put expectations on him through the roof. He was never going to be a star.

Graham has always been a role player. Unfortunately there are some that continue to ignore the fact that there are role players, you're either a star or a list clogger, there is no in-between.

 

[TigerImposter]

Graham has always been a role player. Unfortunately there are some that continue to ignore the fact that there are role players, you're either a star or a list clogger, there is no in-between.

Well if he’s a role player then
1. What is his role?
2. Is he performing his role?

Last year during the finals series you posted a thesis on why we were not performing and it was bc we were so slow was your conclusion. You worded it though by saying teams were faster than us. I cracked a joke replying to your post saying something like , “ Good to see you finally worked it out”
Yet you’re contradicting yourself by saying Spud Graham is a role player, but all his games have been with the glaring obvious of what you told us. That we are slow and to most fans they can see he’s the major liability?? So how is he performing this mysterious role you’re proposing??His opponents don’t even treat him with any respect bc they can put 5m on him before he legs start to move. Coaches are exploiting Kmac and JGTI every week bc they are so easy to break down. HRS showed what speed does with some positive intent bc not only could he defend contests, he could get involved in attacking thrusts.
You are back into the 2016 era where plodders, battlers and list cloggers were Dimma’s heroes.
The only inexperienced kids we have are Campbell and KMac2 that are worthy of a game. All the rest that are in contention have 4-5 seasons behind them and are ready physically for the big time. If you had noticed they’re actually better skilled and faster than the players you’re in every thread trying to justify their existence on a football field.

 

[sante]

Well if he’s a role player then
1. What is his role?
2. Is he performing his role?

Last year during the finals series you posted a thesis on why we were not performing and it was bc we were so slow was your conclusion. You worded it though by saying teams were faster than us. I cracked a joke in that post saying something like , “ Good to see you finally worked it out”
Yet you’re contradicting yourself by saying Spud Graham is a role player, but all his games have been with the glaring obvious of what you told us. That we are slow and he’s the major liability?? So how is he performing this mysterious role you’re proposing??His opponents don’t even treat him with any respect bc they can put 5m on him before he legs start to move. Coaches are exploiting Kmac and JGTI every week bc they are so easy to break down. HRS showed what speed does with some positive intent bc not only could he defend contests, he could get involved in attacking thrusts.
You are back into the 2016 era where plodders, battlers and list cloggers were Dimma’s heroes.
The only inexperienced kids we have are Campbell and KMac2 that are worthy of a game. All the rest that are in contention have 4-5 seasons behind them and are ready physically for the big time. If you had noticed they’re actually better skilled and faster than the players you’re in every thread trying to justify their existence on a football field.

He must be playing his role, why else does he get picked? I don’t know what the role is but there must be a reason we gets picked weekly

 

[TigerImposter]

He must be playing his role, why else does he get picked? I don’t know what the role is but there must be a reason we gets picked weekly

Can you explain to me what role he’s playing and how he’s performing it? He’s getting picked bc we have two sacked coaches as assistants who are so far behind the times they’ve reverted to the 2016 era bc they’re too scared to drop their mates and take risks on performing kids. They are actually setting us back bc they have no knowledge of the modern game and what basic traits a modern Footballer should have.

 

[sante]

Can you explain to me what role he’s playing and how he’s performing it? He’s getting picked bc we have two sacked coaches as assistants who are so far behind the times they’ve reverted to the 2016 bc they’re too scared to drop their mates and take risks on performing kids. They are actually setting us back bc they have no knowledge of the modern game and what basic traits a modern Footballer should have.

I have no idea what his role is or why he’s picked but the coaches do. I think Yze is giving majority of players a decent chance to show him what they have. Next year onwards will give us a better idea of what Yze sees moving forward imo.

 

[TigerImposter]

I have no idea what his role is or why he’s picked but the coaches do. I think Yze is giving majority of players a decent chance to show him what they have. Next year onwards will give us a better idea of what Yze sees moving forward imo.

The coaches are picking him on history and not the ability to play a role as he can’t actually perform any role unless it is slippery and wet as the pack comes back to him. His opponents are constantly towelling him up every week with his sidekick Kmac and it’s taken Yze six games to start to squeeze one out. The reality is JGTI is so underwhelming that he’d struggle in The East Gippsland Football League and I’m serious. I’m happy to drive him up to Adelaide for one of your teams to utilise him.

 

[Hoos]

Is this bloke supposed to be in his prime?

Ummm...yeah.

 

[Hoos]

When he gets it he is still probably one of the best we have of naturally knowing what to do with it next.

Unfortunately he can only kick it about 30 metres and he has to be metres in the clear because he takes way to long to steady and put the ball on his boot.

The best he can do is dish it off immediately to someone running past.

 

[Hoos]

"How many men died that Ceasar might be great?"

It seems Jack Graham made us great and is now dead to our supporters.

Not me.

He made us great? By himself?

What colour is the sky in your world?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

He made us great? By himself?

What colour is the sky in your world?

You need to apply the opening quote. Jack Graham is one of the sacrificial players who took Richmond from good/competitive to great. And I mean the opposition barely had an answer to us for a 4 year period.

 

[Hoos]

You need to apply the opening quote. Jack Graham is one of the sacrificial players who took Richmond from good/competitive to great. And I mean the opposition barely had an answer to us for a 4 year period.

Yes, but now the guns have mostly disappeared, his lack of pace and average skills are exposed.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yes, but now the guns have mostly disappeared, his lack of pace and average skills are exposed.

It doesn't much matter if you are not contending. Perfect player, gets his job done to get you over the line for flags, then gets you good draft picks when you are not in contention.

 

[Hoos]

Perfect player, gets his job done to get you over the line for flags, then gets you good draft picks when you are not in contention.

By getting us good draft picks, do you mean he's helping to make us worse in order to get those good picks?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

By getting us good draft picks, do you mean he's helping to make us worse in order to get those good picks?

Well if the one player makes a good team better and a bad team worse, isn't that ideal?

 

[Hoos]

Well if the one player makes a good team better and a bad team worse, isn't that ideal?

Wouldn't you rather have a young player getting more experience at the highest level? If it was this season we'd probably still end up with the same draft picks but the young kid (Sonsie or McAuliffe for example) will be better for the experience.

 

[Grrr]

When he gets it he is still probably one of the best we have of naturally knowing what to do with it next. Which at the moment isn’t the difference between much because we are so far off the pointy things it doesn’t matter.

Maybe Port or Adelaide are keen for this type of player. Port you’d reckon only for a back up but maybe Adelaide need some brains about the place.

I'll give you that, he uses the ball well enough, not exactly creative, but he keeps the ball moving. Problem is he doesn't get it enough.

 

[Grrr]

Wouldn't you rather have a young player getting more experience at the highest level? If it was this season we'd probably still end up with the same draft picks but the young kid (Sonsie or McAuliffe for example) will be better for the experience.

We need to get a few games into them now while we have all the injuries, because they will get squeezed out of best 22. The next 2-4 weeks a lot of players will be coming back.

 

[TigerImposter]

I'll give you that, he uses the ball well enough, not exactly creative, but he keeps the ball moving. Problem is he doesn't get it enough.

NO! THE PROBLEM IS HIS OPPONENT GETS IT TOO OFTEN.

 

[_RT_]

Yes, but now the guns have mostly disappeared, his lack of pace and average skills are exposed.

Therein lies the problem. I mentioned last night that Graham is a role player, who supports the stars by allowing them to be more influential offensively while he does a lot of the grunt work defensively. The problem at the moment is that our star midfielders are injured, so they're asking Graham to fill the void and be an attacking weapon, when that is not a strength and when he doesn't perform in that role the fans get frustrated and sink the boots in.

If he remains with us in 2025 and beyond, then I would like to see us play him as a defensive midfielder who can run with an opponent around the ground and can be the defensive sweeper at stoppages, that then allows the likes of Taranto Hopper Ross Dow and co to worry about winning the footy and getting it going our way. That is how he made his name early on and they've tried to make him a different type of player over the last few seasons and become more attacking and it doesn't suit his strengths.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Wouldn't you rather have a young player getting more experience at the highest level? If it was this season we'd probably still end up with the same draft picks but the young kid (Sonsie or McAuliffe for example) will be better for the experience.

I guess there are different forms of "experience," each with different values in relation to forming a winning team in the future.

- experience at the level, just getting used to being tackled harder, the game and ball moving faster and so on

- experience in the team, getting used to how your team-mates operate and how the team as a wholes functions

- experience of crowds/venues and being exposed to such a high level of scrutiny

- experience in a specific role you are likely capable of performing in a successful team

- the deflating experience of playing in a key role against some of the best players in the game in their prime and getting absolutely destroyed, potentially both physically and psychologically


If we now go back and look at some of our better players of the last 15 years, and think of the many and varied ways they gained "experience."

If you think back to Riewoldt, Edwards, Cotchin, Rance, Martin, Astbury, Grimes, Houli, Vlaustuin, Short, Rioli, Bolton, Graham, Baker, Balta.....

So many different ways these guys gained their experience. Some thrown into major roles in weak teams, some missed selection in stronger teams early until they developed confidence at the level, some were persevered with for years while seemingly not being good enough, some played plenty of VFL, and some of those are some of the very best - Bolton, Rance for eg. Some with stronger frames who played against less challenging opponents like Graham and Vlastuin were pretty much slotted straight in as soon as they were fit and firing. It is funny Graham and Bolton were drafted together, and the one who played a lot more AFL early is now not in the same league as the one who played a lot less AFL early.

Part of it always needs to be what the team needs to achieve what it is trying to achieve.

It is never straightforward.