Strategy 2022 Rest of Season strategy thread

Injuries, COVID, NicNat - reset or battle out the rest of 2022

  • 1. Keep playing our best 22 and carry on regardless, back in the champions with credits in bank

    Votes: 16 32.7%

  • 2. Accept finals out for 2022 so balance youth with experience

    Votes: 24 49.0%

  • 3. Treat it as a 12 month pre-season and learn about our list

    Votes: 9 18.4%
  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .

Remove this Banner Ad

Would like others' and in particular Dylan82's opinion on this
Have we noticed a distinct shift in game style over the past game or two? Team defence strategy of some sort?
More willingness to use the corridor, riskier kicks etc?

We need to adopt the right game style for winning games at Optus first and foremost.
At the moment it is almost like we can't defend the ground properly.

If we were seeing a definite change in style, and progress in some KPI's / metrics, then the pain would almost be bearable.
 
There's definitely been a change, but we lack the footskills to hit up targets, regularly kicking over our player's heads and being destroyed on the turnover (as the ball is now in the corridor) or we lack the composure/vision to make the right decisions, and pass the ball accurately to someone under extreme pressure, who get tackled, and we get destroyed on the turnover.

Unsure if the latter is composure/vision or a lack of workrate to present better options. Probably a bit of both but there were plenty of occasions where a free player was ignored that you can't see on TV.
 
Clear as day to see that we are nowhere near fit enough. The boys are cooked out there.

Probably the reason why the skills have gone in the bin.

I think the full extent of what we have gone through won't be told until season end.

But expect it to be compelling viewing when it all comes out !!!
 

Log in to remove this ad.

wraglesweb said:
Clear as day to see that we are nowhere near fit enough. The boys are cooked out there.

Probably the reason why the skills have gone in the bin.

I think the full extent of what we have gone through won't be told until season end.

But expect it to be compelling viewing when it all comes out !!!
Click to expand...
I hope it comes out. In 2013 the team started playing like this in the back end of the season and it was never explained. They just swept it under the carpet when woosha left. Kerr was forced to retire pretty suddenly which was never addressed either (though he started having legal trouble the next year which was probably the reason).
 
Wet Toast Rule said:
Would like others' and in particular Dylan82's opinion on this
Have we noticed a distinct shift in game style over the past game or two? Team defence strategy of some sort?
More willingness to use the corridor, riskier kicks etc?

We need to adopt the right game style for winning games at Optus first and foremost.
At the moment it is almost like we can't defend the ground properly.

If we were seeing a definite change in style, and progress in some KPI's / metrics, then the pain would almost be bearable.
Click to expand...
Yes - I have seen some changes but it’s like asking if you like a new brand of toilet paper the week you have a dose of diarrhoea.
 
Free Agent said:
I'll go first.

We have some of the best small forwards in my opinion in the game and need to utilise that. The issue I see are we are being way to key forward focused. Darling and Kennedy are in the worst form I've ever seen. So as care taker I'm going to give Kennedy a rest. He won't play anymore away games. In fact he will most likely play only 5 games to see out the rest of the season before he retires. Will let him know thats all he is getting and thank him for his contribution.

Darling I would drop in the WAFL for the next 6-7 weeks to gain form or he won't come back at all. If he doesn't I would delist at seasons end

Now my gameplan will be around our smalls and hopefully it will stop the focus of trying to kick it to those out of touch talls we have and actually pin pass to quick fast smalls. The whole forward line will be smalls/midfielders. It will create unpredictable play and open that forward line up. Most clubs these days don't rely on talls to kick goals. Look at the Swans. They don't even need Franklin to function.

Second is the midfield which to be honest can not be fixed this season. Probally tap Reddon on the shoulder and call time likewise won't play more then 5 games for the rest of the season. Jones to come back in. We don't have the depth really to change it. Our first 2 selections in the draft is obtaining the best midfielders we can get. We need draft them as trading won't work. When you are bottom four we all know how hard it is to trade. AFL players only want to go to good teams. We must draft and draft well. We need to find the next Chris Judd 2.0. We need to develop a superstar midfield. All draft picks are kept. There will be no trading of our picks unless seeking to upgrade those picks.

Defence stays the same although Rotham wouldn't be the scape goat Simmo seems to be selecting. Rotham is quick and that's needed in the defence.
That's it for the rest of the season. Can't really do much more with the squad we have.

Come years end though.
Retired Hurn, Kennedy, Reddon Shuey
Trade Yeo, Darling for a bag of chips or possible would just delist if no one wants.
Confirmed Delisting Nelson, Cole, Langdon,

All likely delistings. All on notice and told they have the rest of the season to prove themselves. O Neil Foley Black Waterman Petrol, Witherden, Joyce Jamieson.
The rest of the squad stay on for 2023 as we develop youth.

Captain is a hard choice but would make Gov captain for next few seasons before Judd 2.0 is ready to take that mantle.

Sent from my CPH2025 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hang on… you want to cull Tom Cole ( ok but probably not a good option) but keep Josh bloody Rotham?? He of the cant hit a target 10 metres in front of him, the backwards kick that still bounces in-front oh who it goes to, the bloke who is never within 10 metres of his opponent ( nelson normally is between 5-10) is to slow for smalls and not tall enuf for bigs???
That bloke???
Cole at least can lockdown on a small forward
Rotham is a headless chook.
 
Cuzz09 said:
Of our 13 lowest EVER scores 3 of them have been in the last 12 months.

If we can at least try and get some attack happening thatd be great
Click to expand...
Remember our attack and ball movement in 2015 was so sexual.........

Now we just flood the back half and waddle up the field when we get the ball 🤦‍♂️
 
KERRPOW said:
its a crying shame we only have 2018 to show for it.
Click to expand...
Nah, winning a flag is ******* tough. Very very few win multiple.

Plenty of better eras (Collingwood 2010, us 2006, port 2004, bombers 2000) walked away with the same number of flags and can think of at least one (Geelong 89-95) that finished up with none.

Very few eras should be pencilled in for multiple flags. Ours wasn't one of them - as brilliant as that would have been. I'd have pencilled the Cousins era in for a second or the Matera/Jako era in for a third before a second in the Hurn era.

Probably more disappointing is not giving it a genuine tilt in the two follow up years. We should have at least got to a preliminary final and had a proper crack. Would definitely agree it was a let down not getting that far in the aftermath.

Back to the OP and the main things I wanna see:

  • more youngsters in the midfield (granted options aren't plentiful here)
  • obviously last year for jk and hurny but need to have a tough retirement conversation on at least one, if not two, of shuey, redden and NicNat. Legends of our club and it'll suck to see them go but the rebuild has to start.
  • we've seen us play slightly more attacking footy this year with some attacking corridor kicks. That pendelum needs to keep swinging. Still not seeing enough.
  • we haven't seen an improvement in our tackling. This has to change. Footy is about pressure now.
  • the focus in the off season has to be fitness, both cardio and physical. We need to run harder and we need to keep our players on the park.
  • don't make daft trades. We're going to have five picks in the top 25 over the next two years including two top 5's, potentially both of those being top 3. At least 3 midfielders in those five picks, and at least one (if not both) of those top pick 5 picks should be genuine full time midfielders.

The above are all metrics that can be hit. They aren't asking for the club to pull a miracle out of their ass.

Hit all the above and we can be back pushing for glory in about five years. I just think back to 2000/01 and our list was in just bad shape as now, maybe even worse. Those old enough won't forget trading in journeymen like Collica, Merenda, Taylor, Sierakowski and Prior. No club would ever do that now. Things were looking pretty dire around 2009/10 as well, although not as bad I will say. So chins up - in footy things are rarely as good as they seem or as bad as they seem.
 
Last edited:
Totally agree. Flags are never a guarantee.

Essendon 1999-2001 were close to the best I've seen. Just a scary tough attacking skilful side... 1 flag in the end.

If Melbourne dont win another flag in the next 2-3 years their fans will be furious... despite 57 years of s**t

I agree it sucks we faded out in the following years.. I love making Prelims it should be our minimum target every year... I always think anything other than a Prelim appearance is a let down.

anyway... a lot of water to go under the bridge til our next Prelim.

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
2019 was a weird season.
In turns out it was probably our last chance with Yeo & Shuey still fit and at their best, but apart from finishing outside of the top 4, our biggest problem was struggling to achieve 4 quarter performances which had an effect on our ladder position.
Even if Willie hadn't been suspended before the final, that particular issue was still a massive stumbling block.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Been mentioned somewhere on our board, the idea of bringing in Neesham as a mentor. I like the idea. I am old enough to remember his coaching, which was way ahead of his time, and is exactly how teams play now. To get ahead of the curve ball, you have to get innovative. He could help bed down the new playing methodology. Got to do something different, and it may bear fruit.
 
Last edited:
The Passenger said:
Nah, winning a flag is ******* tough. Very very few win multiple.

Plenty of better eras (Collingwood 2010, us 2006, port 2004, bombers 2000) walked away with the same number of flags and can think of at least one (Geelong 89-95) that finished up with none.

Very few eras should be pencilled in for multiple flags. Ours wasn't one of them - as brilliant as that would have been. I'd have pencilled the Cousins era in for a second or the Matera/Jako era in for a third before a second in the Hurn era.

Probably more disappointing is not giving it a genuine tilt in the two follow up years. We should have at least got to a preliminary final and had a proper crack. Would definitely agree it was a let down not getting that far in the aftermath.

Back to the OP and the main things I wanna see:

  • more youngsters in the midfield (granted options aren't plentiful here)
  • obviously last year for jk and hurny but need to have a tough retirement conversation on at least one, if not two, of shuey, redden and NicNat. Legends of our club and it'll suck to see them go but the rebuild has to start.
  • we've seen us play slightly more attacking footy this year with some attacking corridor kicks. That pendelum needs to keep swinging. Still not seeing enough.
  • we haven't seen an improvement in our tackling. This has to change. Footy is about pressure now.
  • the focus in the off season has to be fitness, both cardio and physical. We need to run harder and we need to keep our players on the park.
  • don't make daft trades. We're going to have five picks in the top 25 over the next two years including two top 5's, potentially both of those being top 3. At least 3 midfielders in those five picks, and at least one (if not both) of those top pick 5 picks should be genuine full time midfielders.

The above are all metrics that can be hit. They aren't asking for the club to pull a miracle out of their ass.

Hit all the above and we can be back pushing for glory in about five years. I just think back to 2000/01 and our list was in just bad shape as now, maybe even worse. Those old enough won't forget trading in journeymen like Collica, Merenda, Taylor, Sierakowski and Prior. No club would ever do that now. Things were looking pretty dire around 2009/10 as well, although not as bad I will say. So chins up - in footy things are rarely as good as they seem or as bad as they seem.
Click to expand...
First part I totally agree. Add Saints (2009-2011), Giants (2016-2019), Adelaide (2005-2007) to the list of amazing teams/talented squads that never cracked a flag.

In regards to your last point: at least the 2000-01 had Cousins, Gardiner, Cox, Kerr, Braun, Embley already on our list and coming through and we had the generous priority pick loophole to exploit.
In 2010 we had NN, Lecca, JK, Shuey, Schofield, McKenzie, Hurn coming through.

Looking at our list now, only Oscar is looking as AA quality (excluding 2021 draftees) and the journeymen of Colic, Merenda (seriously good player IMO), Siera, etc are already traded in... by being on our list already.
 
You can have a great team, but there are still no prizes for 2nd or 3rd best. 2011 Hawthorn won 18 games we won 17. Neither team finished top 2 or made the GF. Geelong had an off day in 2008, no 3 peat. Richmond had an off night in the 2018 prelim, no 3 peat.

Sydney 05/06, WC 05/06, St Kilda 09/10 could all be 2 time or no time premiers. Even Hawthorn who won 3 in a row made 4 consecutive prelims 2011-14 that were decided by under a goal (3-1 W-L). Such small margins in footy.

I remember when we stank in 2001. We had Cousins who was already a star and Kerr as a first year player who looked like a future star. Gardiner also had plenty of exposed form. But no one was excited about Glass, Embley, Cox, Fletcher, Hunter etc. Glass was a first round pick but no one was saying he looked like a future 4 time AA key defender. We got Judd after we finished bottom 4 and got pick 3 and were lucky that he was a generational player and ready to go from day one. In the early Worsfold years we still had Matera, Jakovich, McIntosh etc. to help the young players out so while we probably won't win a flag with McGovern, Darling etc. they can still have a big role to play.

I'm certainly not that excited about Williams, Foley, O'Neill etc. but there's so little exposed form to go on.
 
juddy_Like said:
In regards to your last point: at least the 2000-01 had Cousins, Gardiner, Cox, Kerr, Braun, Embley already on our list and coming through and we had the generous priority pick loophole to exploit.
Click to expand...
It's a fair point and whilst there is a definite talent vacuum at the young end of our list, people weren't thinking much of many of our youngsters through the Judge era. Cousins was obviously highly rated and Kerr was good from early on. Gardy was rated but ultimately didn't play much of a role in our GFs.

There's no doubt we have to nail the next few drafts. You're rarely going to nail every pick but from those five top 25 picks we will have in 22 and 23 we have to hit big with at least three (200+ games, AA Squad level) of those.

We've done that before with Glass - MacDougall - Kerr - Judd - Sampi and then NicNat - Shuey - Swift - Shep - Weedon - Stevens - Gaff - Darling.

That's the standard we have to set over the next few off seasons.
 
We also need to become active in trade week. We only got Daniel Kerr because we traded Fraser Gehrig who was only 24 (no don't trade Allen).

We should be looking at Logan McDonald, Denver Grainger-Barras, Luke Jackson, Mitch Georgiades, Chad Warner, Brandon Starcevich, Sam Taylor, hell get into Aaron Naughton's ear. Those are just players drafted out of the WAFL. Redden, Vardy, Witherden had no connection to WA.

Wasn't that long ago that we were re-signing McGovern, Gaff, Darling to stave off interest from other clubs who had cap space. From 2023/24 onward we'll have cap space and good draft picks. We need to grow some stones and start throwing our weight around. Maybe we'll get none of those guys above but the more other clubs pay the less flexibility they have. The AFL is a closed system.
 
I think we need to stem the manner of the losses in order to learn anything about any of our players. What can we learn about our young backs when the ball is coming in there 60 plus times in a game, often at pace and straight through the corridor and with no pressure on the kicker? What can we learn about our forward when the ball goes in there 25 times a game and it is going in a slow predictable manner?
 
I mean in the late Judge early Woosha era Cox was a rookie ruckman that couldn't run a lap of Subiaco Oval. Kerr was an undersized mid with not much of a tank. Embley was an inconsistent hothead who was trade bait when he wasn't getting assault charges. Darren Glass was the least effective fullback in the clubs history. Adam Hunter was not even on the radar aside from kicking the odd great goal at Princes Park.

Two of our biggest star prospects were Andrew McDougall and Ashley Sampi. Our spearheads were a 29 year old debutant Troy Wilson and an outgoing Scott Cummings. Mark Merenda was our most exciting new trade when they managed to find enough sticky tape to get him out there.

My point is that people see talent on the list from back then but it's only in hindsight that a lot of these players became greats. The worm can turn quickly. But it needs vision, resources and a bit of luck.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Even our A graders look like WAFL players out there, imagine trying to project forward with any certainty on the guys playing bit roles?
 
Quinz said:
I mean in the late Judge early Woosha era Cox was a rookie ruckman that couldn't run a lap of Subiaco Oval. Kerr was an undersized mid with not much of a tank. Embley was an inconsistent hothead who was trade bait when he wasn't getting assault charges. Darren Glass was the least effective fullback in the clubs history. Adam Hunter was not even on the radar aside from kicking the odd great goal at Princes Park.

Two of our biggest star prospects were Andrew McDougall and Ashley Sampi. Our spearheads were a 29 year old debutant Troy Wilson and an outgoing Scott Cummings. Mark Merenda was our most exciting new trade when they managed to find enough sticky tape to get him out there.

My point is that people see talent on the list from back then but it's only in hindsight that a lot of these players became greats. The worm can turn quickly. But it needs vision, resources and a bit of luck.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Even our A graders look like WAFL players out there, imagine trying to project forward with any certainty on the guys playing bit roles?
Click to expand...
good point about the rising tide lifting all boats.
 
I know it's a cliche, but I reckon the cue goes back in the rack and the match committee needs to focus on youth.

No, I don't think young kids should be played at all cost... you still need to protect them from getting injured. But if it's a choice between pumping some games into an unproven kid, versus a veteran that is very long odds to be playing next year, you'd have to focus on the younger player.

eg, Luke Shuey has been a champion for the club, but he turns 32 next month and his body seems pretty shot. Could he play next year? Possibly. Definitely not in the midfield though. Simpson seems desperate to get Shuey, Yeo and Kelly together in the midfield but it just doesn't seem worth while. So maybe they build up their "synergy" and then what?

There's probably half a dozen decisions like this one to make. Josh Kennedy, Shannon Hurn, Jack Redden... even Naitanui. Are these guys going to be at the club next year? If so, what role are they going to be playing?

Coaches are always reluctant to make these sorts of decisions. So I don't think we'll see anything dramatic this week... but I'd expect (and hope) that there is a serious reset during the bye.
 
Wet Toast Rule said:
Are you suggesting Wragles that its to do with Covid etc?

If so i would expect a few other teams to go through something similar along the way but we havent seen it...
Click to expand...

Didn't Simpson quote something along the lines of 23 players having gone "through COVID protocols"? Obviously, not all of them actually had COVID... but I'm guessing a pretty significant percentage of the 23 actually got sick.

On top of that, there's been a pretty bad run of injuries -- Cole, Cripps, NN, Yeo, Allen, etc.

I think there's been a concordance of events -- the impact of COVID was delayed in WA because of the border closures, so other clubs, particularly Victorian-based ones, have probably already been through this, PLUS bad luck with injuries.

Maybe Freo have just been lucky, and maybe their run will come later... or maybe WCE players have been more complacent. I think it is worth further investigation within the club. Similar to general injuries -- has it just been bad luck? Or something wrong with S&C?

Either way, it's impossible to deny the impact... being 6 matches into the season and we've already played 3/4 of the squad AND required top-up players from the WAFL. It's unprecedented in the modern game, with the possible exception of Essendon during the drug saga.
 
juddy_Like said:
First part I totally agree. Add Saints (2009-2011), Giants (2016-2019), Adelaide (2005-2007) to the list of amazing teams/talented squads that never cracked a flag.

In regards to your last point: at least the 2000-01 had Cousins, Gardiner, Cox, Kerr, Braun, Embley already on our list and coming through and we had the generous priority pick loophole to exploit.
In 2010 we had NN, Lecca, JK, Shuey, Schofield, McKenzie, Hurn coming through.

Looking at our list now, only Oscar is looking as AA quality (excluding 2021 draftees) and the journeymen of Colic, Merenda (seriously good player IMO), Siera, etc are already traded in... by being on our list already.
Click to expand...

Project 5 years from now and TK is 32 (turning 33)
Sheed 32
Rioli/Barass 31
Ryan/Duggan/Clark/Cole 30
SPS/Rotham 29
Waterman/Witherden/JJ/Naish/Dixon/Allen/Petch 28

West, Foley, Williams x 2, Bazzo, Chesser, Edwards x2, Xon, Winder, CJ all younger than that in 5 years (i.e. only just hitting their peak).

Some/many of these will be off the list, but plenty of guys have time to capture or recapture their best form. A year is a long time in footy, 5 years is an eternity. We need more than just Allen projecting as elite from the 23yo and under (current age) I agree - but there is plenty of potential there. Obviously we need to nail the next 2 drafts, but not take our eye of what we have and where we can improve those players. All of the above (assuming we want to keep them and they want to stay) can be a part of the next tilt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GoEaglesGoSGIO
Position changes to try for the rest of the year
Replies
13
Views
667
WCErevival
WCErevival
Bender_
Opinion Season on the line this week against Port
Replies
10
Views
549
bzparkes
bzparkes
mattyc75
Review Season 2022
2 3
Replies
71
Views
2K
Carbine Chaos
Carbine Chaos
BeornJ
2024 WCE Squad (Updated through the off-season)
2 3
Replies
57
Views
5K
ioppolo
ioppolo
Keys
  • Locked
List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition
754 755 756 757 758
Replies
19K
Views
856K
Jumpoff Joey
Jumpoff Joey
E
2023 Season Review
Replies
13
Views
1K
Cuzz09
Cuzz09
Keys
  • Locked
Game Day Draft day 2022 - Its Here!! Live Chat Thread
57 58 59 60 61
Replies
2K
Views
49K
Get_The_Gaff
Get_The_Gaff
Back
Top