Strategy 2022 Rest of Season strategy thread

[AsterixTheGaul]

So about 2/3rd of the posters want change and realise 2022 is not a year when we will make a tilt at the flag.

Only a third of the responses were supportive of our current leaders and want to back them in for the rest of 2022.

So clearly change is desired by a considerable margin. I suspect a number of people voting did so prior to the disastrous Sydney game. If they voted again, would they change and want a more extreme change?

So what does a balance of youth and senior look like?

Here are some proposed changes:
1. Hurn to hand over kick in duties to Witherden or Foley.
2. JK is not an automatic selection. Decide now how many games he will play and stop making the decision each week. What we have seen from Dixon provides us enough cover until Oscar is ready (this may be 2023 as our dumb flocks have stuffed up a yo9uong body by rucking him too early)
3. Give our emerging or developing midfielders a run of games in their rightful position.
- Naish to hold onto a wing for the foreseeable future
- XON to be given a run of 6 to 8 games as an inside midfielder
- Find a spot for Waterman to have a run at it. I personally think he needs to go as the 3rd tall defender. Play him for the next 2 months in the same role.
- Discover what sort of player Jack will be in his twilight years. Is he the deeper forward or the lead up forward?
- Play Ryan deeper in the forward line.
- Yeo to the rebounding HBF for another 6 weeks
- Shuey to the HFF along with Kelly spending more time there.
- BWilliams to be given first ruck for at least 6 weeks. If Dixon is used as a KPF, bring in Stranidca as the second ruck.
- etc
4. Simmo and coaching panel work out how we want to play in 2023 to 2025, what players are right for how we want to play and what players we need to draft for our new game style. We also tap the possible interstate WA boys and let them know it might take a couple of years to bring them home as FA's.
5. Sort out this salary cap so we are ready to pounce in 2023/24.

I could go on. The feeling is we aren't winning or going close in 2022. So SIMMO - this is not the year to try to qualify for finals as soon as we can as it isn't going to happen.

A good coach can come in and get take a list to the ultimate goal. It takes a great coach to repeat that in subsequent years

 

[Grahame]

Even when we were contending Simmo made it a point to say we had to make finals before we talk about top 4, top 2 etc. That indicates that the club thinks if they make the finals then it can be done. If that's true it's still too early to give up on that objective and it's clear we are still at least weeks away from conceding 2022.

Not the best start for a litany of reasons and yes history says it's a long way from here. But funny things happen and hell, say it did, I wouldn't want to be one of those who had advocated throwing it all away a month in.

History shows you need to be top four (outside that it's very very very rare). Last year, teams 4, 5 & 6 had 15 wins. Number four (Bris) also had the healthy percentage of 133%. Maybe this year 4th might only need 14 wins (and probably percentage). For the sake of this argument let's run with 14 wins.

So with five rounds done we now need to win at least 13 games out of 17. We still have to play Geel (x2), Bris, Melb, Rich (x2) and Foots. Then we've also got the up and coming StK, Carl and Freo. Plus can we be sure we won't lose even one to the remaining teams?

13 out of 17???

If your idea is to first get into the eight and then worry about the flag that can mean just making up the numbers year after year after year. As I said above, since WCE joined only Haw have more premierships ... while only(?) Freo and StK have none. My expectations are GFs and flags. I couldn't care less about finals unless you can make at least the PF. I don't want a strategy that sees us just making the eight only to crash out. I'm not fazed that if by finishing say 10th or 14th it means we find out which younger players are/aren't worth keeping. (Plus it gives better draft picks.)

Furthermore, the current strategy seems to be about rewarding reputation not form. I can't see how with an ageing list that is a smart move. Of course if you're only worried about the overall percentage of wins (e.g. if you are the coach or the marketing dept) maybe that's fine, but I'd argue it won't give you the best chance of getting wins when it really matters - in the latter part of the finals every few years.

The 2022 motto needs to be: One step back for two steps forward.

 

[Grahame]

So about 2/3rd of the posters want change and realise 2022 is not a year when we will make a tilt at the flag.

Only a third of the responses were supportive of our current leaders and want to back them in for the rest of 2022.

So clearly change is desired by a considerable margin. I suspect a number of people voting did so prior to the disastrous Sydney game. If they voted again, would they change and want a more extreme change?

So what does a balance of youth and senior look like?

Here are some proposed changes:
1. Hurn to hand over kick in duties to Witherden or Foley.
2. JK is not an automatic selection. Decide now how many games he will play and stop making the decision each week. What we have seen from Dixon provides us enough cover until Oscar is ready (this may be 2023 as our dumb flocks have stuffed up a yo9uong body by rucking him too early)
3. Give our emerging or developing midfielders a run of games in their rightful position.
- Naish to hold onto a wing for the foreseeable future
- XON to be given a run of 6 to 8 games as an inside midfielder
- Find a spot for Waterman to have a run at it. I personally think he needs to go as the 3rd tall defender. Play him for the next 2 months in the same role.
- Discover what sort of player Jack will be in his twilight years. Is he the deeper forward or the lead up forward?
- Play Ryan deeper in the forward line.
- Yeo to the rebounding HBF for another 6 weeks
- Shuey to the HFF along with Kelly spending more time there.
- BWilliams to be given first ruck for at least 6 weeks. If Dixon is used as a KPF, bring in Stranidca as the second ruck.
- etc
4. Simmo and coaching panel work out how we want to play in 2023 to 2025, what players are right for how we want to play and what players we need to draft for our new game style. We also tap the possible interstate WA boys and let them know it might take a couple of years to bring them home as FA's.
5. Sort out this salary cap so we are ready to pounce in 2023/24.

I could go on. The feeling is we aren't winning or going close in 2022. So SIMMO - this is not the year to try to qualify for finals as soon as we can as it isn't going to happen.

A good coach can come in and get take a list to the ultimate goal. It takes a great coach to repeat that in subsequent years

This. Exactly this (or similar).

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Bumping this for those that want to talk strategy and not just wallow in self pity.

Goal for the season has to be pumping games into the younger segment of the list, whether they’re ready to contribute or currently AFL caliber is almost immaterial. I’m not saying play JWill the rest of the way, but guys who are around our team currently need to be given a free pass and soak up game time.

Hough, Foley, SPS, Petch, Exxon, Clark, West, LEdwards, HEdwards, BWill.

Some of them aren’t good enough to impact yet, others are not even that young but we still don’t quite know what we have. This is the time for finding out.

Whatever we want from Petch, put him there and let him just go for it for a month, output aside. Is Exxon an AFL midfielder? I don’t think so, but I’d love the evidence of a season’s worth of games to be sure.

The talls speak for themselves, just soak up minutes.

Allen when he’s ready would be B22 anyway but if he can ever walk again turn it over to him.

Cripps/Hurn/Redden/Shuey/JK. Love you boys, love everything you’ve done for us, there’s some genuine “I got to watch him play” legends in that list. One in every two games from here on in I’d say. Time to turn it over and see what we have before we have to invest hard in the draft.

 

[Biggie]

Rest of season?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Looking forward to Ella Roberts linking up with Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

29

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

in the middle next season.

 

[Cuzz09]

Legitimate question

can we just dump a bunch of players and bring in randoms at mid season draft

 

[BigVic]

Going to be a long season with Freo fans up and about

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Going to be a long season with Freo fans up and about

Imagine if we have to endure the Wildcats’ finals streak ending and Freo winning the flag in the same year. Oof.

 

[The Passenger]

Legitimate question

can we just dump a bunch of players and bring in randoms at mid season draft

I think so but the mid season draft is going to be mostly spuds who couldn't get drafted previously. It's essentially not much different to the old pre-season draft, which wasn't particularly fruitful - maybe one or two good footballers each year and a handful of decent ones but the vast majority were delisted within a couple of seasons.

The national draft is where draft capital should be used.

If we need to fill a list spot sure take a player mid season but I'm not sure it's a great look for any club to be retiring club legends to grab the offcuts from the last few drafts, despite the incredibly frustrating on field performances from our senior players.

We've got about 6 to 8 retirements over the next couple of years and we'll be picking very highly, so we're going to have a lot to hit the end of season drafts.

 

[Free Agent]

Might aswell play this hypothetical since we are a absolute rabble of a club right now.

So congratulations you have just been selected as caretaker coach. What's the plan for the rest of the season and what's the plan beyond that.

Sent from my CPH2025 using Tapatalk

 

[Free Agent]

I'll go first.

We have some of the best small forwards in my opinion in the game and need to utilise that. The issue I see are we are being way to key forward focused. Darling and Kennedy are in the worst form I've ever seen. So as care taker I'm going to give Kennedy a rest. He won't play anymore away games. In fact he will most likely play only 5 games to see out the rest of the season before he retires. Will let him know thats all he is getting and thank him for his contribution.

Darling I would drop in the WAFL for the next 6-7 weeks to gain form or he won't come back at all. If he doesn't I would delist at seasons end

Now my gameplan will be around our smalls and hopefully it will stop the focus of trying to kick it to those out of touch talls we have and actually pin pass to quick fast smalls. The whole forward line will be smalls/midfielders. It will create unpredictable play and open that forward line up. Most clubs these days don't rely on talls to kick goals. Look at the Swans. They don't even need Franklin to function.

Second is the midfield which to be honest can not be fixed this season. Probally tap Reddon on the shoulder and call time likewise won't play more then 5 games for the rest of the season. Jones to come back in. We don't have the depth really to change it. Our first 2 selections in the draft is obtaining the best midfielders we can get. We need draft them as trading won't work. When you are bottom four we all know how hard it is to trade. AFL players only want to go to good teams. We must draft and draft well. We need to find the next Chris Judd 2.0. We need to develop a superstar midfield. All draft picks are kept. There will be no trading of our picks unless seeking to upgrade those picks.

Defence stays the same although Rotham wouldn't be the scape goat Simmo seems to be selecting. Rotham is quick and that's needed in the defence.
That's it for the rest of the season. Can't really do much more with the squad we have.

Come years end though.
Retired Hurn, Kennedy, Reddon Shuey
Trade Yeo, Darling for a bag of chips or possible would just delist if no one wants.
Confirmed Delisting Nelson, Cole, Langdon,

All likely delistings. All on notice and told they have the rest of the season to prove themselves. O Neil Foley Black Waterman Petrol, Witherden, Joyce Jamieson.
The rest of the squad stay on for 2023 as we develop youth.

Captain is a hard choice but would make Gov captain for next few seasons before Judd 2.0 is ready to take that mantle.

Sent from my CPH2025 using Tapatalk

 

[Godfather32]

 

[Doashuey]

I'll go first.

We have some of the best small forwards in my opinion in the game and need to utilise that. The issue I see are we are being way to key forward focused. Darling and Kennedy are in the worst form I've ever seen. So as care taker I'm going to give Kennedy a rest. He won't play anymore away games. In fact he will most likely play only 5 games to see out the rest of the season before he retires. Will let him know thats all he is getting and thank him for his contribution.

Darling I would drop in the WAFL for the next 6-7 weeks to gain form or he won't come back at all. If he doesn't I would delist at seasons end

Now my gameplan will be around our smalls and hopefully it will stop the focus of trying to kick it to those out of touch talls we have and actually pin pass to quick fast smalls. The whole forward line will be smalls/midfielders. It will create unpredictable play and open that forward line up. Most clubs these days don't rely on talls to kick goals. Look at the Swans. They don't even need Franklin to function.

Second is the midfield which to be honest can not be fixed this season. Probally tap Reddon on the shoulder and call time likewise won't play more then 5 games for the rest of the season. Jones to come back in. We don't have the depth really to change it. Our first 2 selections in the draft is obtaining the best midfielders we can get. We need draft them as trading won't work. When you are bottom four we all know how hard it is to trade. AFL players only want to go to good teams. We must draft and draft well. We need to find the next Chris Judd 2.0. We need to develop a superstar midfield. All draft picks are kept. There will be no trading of our picks unless seeking to upgrade those picks.

Defence stays the same although Rotham wouldn't be the scape goat Simmo seems to be selecting. Rotham is quick and that's needed in the defence.
That's it for the rest of the season. Can't really do much more with the squad we have.

Come years end though.
Retired Hurn, Kennedy, Reddon Shuey
Trade Yeo, Darling for a bag of chips or possible would just delist if no one wants.
Confirmed Delisting Nelson, Cole, Langdon,

All likely delistings. All on notice and told they have the rest of the season to prove themselves. O Neil Foley Black Waterman Petrol, Witherden, Joyce Jamieson.
The rest of the squad stay on for 2023 as we develop youth.

Captain is a hard choice but would make Gov captain for next few seasons before Judd 2.0 is ready to take that mantle.

Sent from my CPH2025 using Tapatalk

Loves a post loss dummy spit thread. Whats this? 3 in 3 weeks?

I dont mind a lot of what you have suggested above but it seems this is ground you have well and truely covered in other threads recently.

Also, whats your hard-on for delisting Cole? He is our only decent lockdown small/med defender and hasnt played a game due to a bad injury. He is one of our big losses this year even though he is no star. Has he been getting stuck into your wife during his rehab?

 

[Godfather32]

Loves a post loss dummy spit thread. Whats this? 3 in 3 weeks?

I dont mind a lot of what you have suggested above but it seems this is ground you have well and truely covered in other threads recently.

Also, whats your hard-on for delisting Cole? He is our only decent lockdown small/med defender and hasnt played a game due to a bad injury. He is one of our big losses this year even though he is no star. Has he been getting stuck into your wife during his rehab?

Are you blind, he's been out there on the wing just about every game this season. #28 right?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

FB: _____, T Barrass, _____
HB: B Hough, J McGovern, _____
C: _____, _____, _____
HF: W Rioli, O Allen, _____
FF: L Ryan, _____, _____

R: _____, T Kelly, _____

I: _____, _____, _____, _____


For me, the players named above are the only ones on the list without question marks next to their names for next year. That’s pretty scary and tells me we’re in for some real pain/a long rebuild.

Admittedly, some players are only excluded due to lack of exposure (Chesser), development still required (Bazzo, J Williams) or injury/age (Naitanui, Shuey), but it’s still a stark reminder of the state of our list.

I think the first step for Simpson is to pump as many games into the fringe players for the rest of the year, as to fill more of those spots going into 2023.

 

[Free Agent]

Loves a post loss dummy spit thread. Whats this? 3 in 3 weeks?

I dont mind a lot of what you have suggested above but it seems this is ground you have well and truely covered in other threads recently.

Also, whats your hard-on for delisting Cole? He is our only decent lockdown small/med defender and hasnt played a game due to a bad injury. He is one of our big losses this year even though he is no star. Has he been getting stuck into your wife during his rehab?

I don't rate him and never have. Been in the system a long time now much like Waterman's situation. This is before the injury. Just been one of those players that is pretty vanilla and hasn't really done much over the last 4 seasons. Need to move him on in the rebuild. Any player that's been around for awhile and hasn't improved or look like improving their game I don't want.

You can think this is a dummy spit but our list is going nowhere except the bottom of the ladder with this lot we have right now. Time for fresh ideas to turn this club back to where it belongs. We need a rebuild. How are you going to do it. Keep the same players and hope for some synergy.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Well if I'm caretaker with no hope of getting the gig full time, then I'm forfeiting every game for draft picks, then pulling a Woosha and getting the SAS boys down for tackling training, then pulling a Mr Burns when he turned Santa's Little Helper into a guard dog and I'll force them all to watch ultra violent movies.

Then I'll shoot whoever ensured Optus and Lathlain's surface is harder than concrete.

Finally, we'll embark on an extended preseason of repeat sprints so that fitness levels approach AFL quality.

Then I'll hand over an injury-free team of rampaging psychopaths to our next Premiership coach.

You're welcome.

 

[The wily weagle]

A basic, 5 point plan

1) stop zoning, and embrace man on man defending
2) prioritise drafting contested ball winning midfielders, for the next 3-4 seasons.
3) concentrate all energies on improving, via tactics and/or drafting, our 3 glaring weaknesses: contested ball, ground ball, and tackling
4) terminate the contracts of key people in our medical, high performance, and fitness teams and restock these areas with the best people that money can buy. And we have money, so there is really no excuse.
5) Move on Rohan O'Brien: 30 years at the helm is simply too long. We need fresh perspective

 

[The_Gambler]

A basic, 5 point plan

1) stop zoning, and embrace man on man defending
2) prioritise drafting contested ball winning midfielders, for the next 3-4 seasons.
3) concentrate all energies on improving, via tactics and/or drafting, our 3 glaring weaknesses: contested ball, ground ball, and tackling
4) terminate the contracts of key people in our medical, high performance, and fitness teams and restock these areas with the best people that money can buy. And we have money, so there is really no excuse.
5) Move on Rohan O'Brien: 30 years at the helm is simply too long. We need fresh perspective

This is exactly correct. I would add that Luke Jackson basically is a contested ball winning mid, just like NN. We got to hope he gets sick of sitting behind gawn and we can get him cheap.

The key to that post is keep things simple. Hours of lectures on “new game plans” and whatever other BS they get. Go back to basics, train toughness and move forward

 

[boondy]

Wallow near the bottom of the ladder for 5 years and do what Freo have finally done (draft decent players ) and focus on youth . Demons took 30 years , don't be that dum . Don't be a nice guy at the trade table ( be ruthless) . Agreeable people are not successful in life . Get rid of high paid players except Gov if we can don't renew his or anyone's contract for overs . Teach not to look at the scoreboard but to have measures to keep positive for the 4 quarters . Forget about runs on the board for experienced players , let them find fitness First in the WAFL . Admit we are going to rebuild .

 

[Doashuey]

I don't rate him and never have. Been in the system a long time now much like Waterman's situation. This is before the injury. Just been one of those players that is pretty vanilla and hasn't really done much over the last 4 seasons. Need to move him on in the rebuild. Any player that's been around for awhile and hasn't improved or look like improving their game I don't want.

You can think this is a dummy spit but our list is going nowhere except the bottom of the ladder with this lot we have right now. Time for fresh ideas to turn this club back to where it belongs. We need a rebuild. How are you going to do it. Keep the same players and hope for some synergy.

Disagree on Cole has improved a lot but it's all opinion.
Agree completely that a very serious rebuild is required and not just to the list. However as stated before, you seem to be putting up a new thread about the same subject matter every week. Comes across as a dummy spit to me.

 

[InTheWings]

Bring in JL as an assistant coach. He's available!

 

[Doashuey]

Aside from the list, I am now fully on board with looking for a new coach, the club needs a new direction in ethos, not just game plan. Simmo has been great for us and won a flag, got us to 2gfs but he won't change his style.
Also onboard with getting the best S+C team money can buy. I'm not sure on soft cap implications with this sort of staff but if we can spend then I would be looking to the US or UK for guys who are doing now what Aussie s+C guys will be implementing in 5 years.
List wise a few years of high draft picks will help but we need to be careful not to completely gut the list too quickly as we will still need older guys who won't be part of our next flag but will be needed to ensure we don't have an extremely young and inexperienced team getting beaten up for years. Keep the older guys who can mentor and protect our young stars coming through so we don't **** them like Carlton did to Cripps for example. Then phase them out as the young guys mature. It requires some Ballance rather than a burn it down and start from fresh approach.
Use all high end draft picks to build a core of 18-21 year Olds who will take us to the next flag in say 5or 6 years. Do not trade for immediate needs using high draft picks and do not trade for anyone over 25 years old for the next 2 years. English can GTFO.

 

[KERRPOW]

I genuinely think the majority on here have the same thoughts.

We need to fix up our medical, S+C team and recruiting team.

Our ability to manage injuries in the bud has been woeful.

Our fitness is deplorable. Seeing players with guts and love handles is shameful.

Well, recruiting...needs a big overhaul. No more ****ing skinny half back flankers with midfield potential.

On field:
Hurn and kennedy to retire mid season.

Have the tough conversation with shuey, redden and cripps at the end of the year.

See what we could get for Darling and Gaff.

the following year look to delist players who show signs of list clogging material i (landon, jones, foley, edwards x 2, petch, XON, watermelon etc etc).

looking through the squad....its ****ing dire. We're in for a good half a decade of pain at the bare minimum.

its a crying shame we only have 2018 to show for it.