List Mgmt. 2023 GWS Giants List Management - Academy, Free Agent, Trade, Draft

[Giant Strides]

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Here's the list of GWS players who are out of contract in 2023 (I'll progressively cross them out as they re-sign):

• Lachie ASH
• Callan WARD (Free Agent)
• Brayden PREUSS
• Tom GREEN
• Finn CALLAGHAN
• Lachlan KEEFFE (Free Agent)
• Jake RICCARDI
• Harry HIMMELBERG (Free Agent)
• Cam FLEETON - delisted (25/9/23)
• Matt FLYNN (Free Agent) - signed by West Coast as an Unrestricted Free Agent
• Xavier O'HALLORAN
• Jack BUCKLEY
• Callum BROWN

Rookie lists:

• Phil DAVIS (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Jacob WEHR (Free agent)
• Dan LLOYD (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Cooper HAMILTON
• Wade DERKSEN
• Nick MADDEN (Cat B) - assumed re-signed due to 2 sources of info
• Jason GILBEE (Cat B) - delisted (25/9/23)

Current list sizes (for when we get to list/draft/trade speculation):

• main list = 36 minus 3 (Fleeton, Flynn + Kennedy delisted with a view to be re-selected in the rookie draft)
• rookie A = 6 minus 2 (Davis, Lloyd)
• rookie B = 2 minus 1 (Gilbee)
• total = 44 minus 5

This is the future pick spreadsheet that comes into play only at trade time, as future picks are used in end of season (2023) trading:


Here's the 2023 AFL Academy Squad, so these (roughly) represent the best players for next year as they stand now:

2023 NAB AFL ACADEMY​

NAME	SURNAME	STATE	STATE LEAGUE CLUB	COMMUNITY CLUB
Lachlan	Cabor	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Shellharbour
Nate	Caddy	VIC M	Northern Knights	Yarrambat
Jack	Callinan	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Clarence
Caiden	Cleary	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Sydney University
Daniel	Curtin	WA	Claremont	West Coast
Jack	Delean	SA	South Adelaide	Reynella
Zane	Duursma	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Foster
Mitchell	Edwards	WA	Peel Thunder	South Mandurah
William	Green	VIC M	Northern Knights	Northcote
Riley	Hardeman	WA	Swan Districts	Caversham
William	Lorenz	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Boroondara Hawks
Kane	McAuliffe	SA	North Adelaide	Central Augusta
Colby	McKercher	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Launceston
Ashton	Moir	SA	Glenelg	Plympton
Connor	O'Sullivan	NSW/ACT	Murray Bushrangers	Albury
William	Patton	SA	West Adelaide	Mitcham
Nathan	Philactides	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Blackburn
Ethan	Read	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Archer	Reid	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Inverloch-Kongwak
Harley	Reid	VIC C	Bendigo Pioneers	Tongala
Archie	Roberts	VIC M	Sandringham Dragons	Hampton Rovers
Jake	Rogers	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Broadbeach
Ryley	Sanders	TAS	Sandringham Dragons	North Launceston
Cooper	Simpson	VIC C	Dandenong Stingrays	Mount Martha
George	Stevens	VIC C	GWV Rebels	South Warrnambool
Koltyn	Tholstrup	WA	Subiaco	Newtown-Condingup
Orlando	Turner	NT	West Adelaide	South Alice Springs
Jed	Walter	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Nick	Watson	VIC M	Eastern Ranges	East Ringwood
Darcy	Wilson	VIC C	Murray Bushrangers	Wangaratta Rovers

Happy speculating for 2023!

EDIT: 11/12/22 - Added Free Agent status to OOC player list
EDIT: 24/2/23 - Crossed out Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo!!) & Added 2023 Coates Talent League Fixture Link
EDIT: 27/2/23 - Crossed out Finn Callaghan from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo Hoo!!!)
EDIT: 27/4/23 - Crossed out Jacob Wehr from OOC player list
EDIT: 10/5/23 - Crossed out Jack Buckley from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/7/23 - Crossed out Callum Brown from OOC player list
EDIT: 18/7/23 - Crossed out Lachie Ash from OOC player list
EDIT: 20/7/23 - Crossed out Xavier O'Halloran from OOC player list
EDIT: 3/8/23 - Crossed out Harry Himmelberg from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/8/23 - Crossed out Wade Derksen from OOC player list
EDIT: 17/8/23 - Noted Dan Lloyd retiring at end of season
EDIT: 19/8/23 - Crossed out Jake Riccardi from OOC player list
EDIT: 28/8/23 - Noted Phil Davis

1

Phil Davis

Age

33

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.7

4star

MG

55.5

1star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

55.5

1star

D

14.0

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

retiring at end of season
EDIT: 25/9/23 - Noted Cam Fleeton & Jason Gilbee delisted
EDIT: 4/10/23 - Noted Flynn, Preuss & Keeffe situations
EDIT: 9/10/23 - Updated Flynn to WCE, removed Preuss from OOC player list
EDIT: 12/10/23 - Updated Madden with 2 sources of information
EDIT: 19/10/23 - Updated Keeffe & Hamilton re-signed
EDIT: 31/10/23 - adjusted main list numbers with Adam Kennedy

40

Adam Kennedy

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

245.6

4star

D

1.0

1star

K

1.0

1star

HB

0.0

1star

M

0.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

10.0

1star

D

18.6

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.4

4star

delisting (with a view to be re-selected in rookie draft)

 

[Giant Strides]

It appears Watson could be an option. Espn rankings has him down to 9th, due to not impressing whilst playing in midfield.

Still a lot to play out, and clubs won't necessarily fall in line with those rankings. I do believe that there's a possibility - but not certainty - that Watson could fall down the list. Mainly due to clubs being wary of his size, and not wishing to gamble a really early pick (top 5 roughly). But, if Norths get #3 as FA compo for McKay, with 2 picks they might gamble - but alternatively, they have a lot of needs to fill (and small forward surely is down the list!). Someone else might trade up just to grab him etc.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Should we be reading anything into Preuss being named as an emergency instead of Flynn? The contract of both expire at the end of the year

 

[dlanod]

Should we be reading anything into Preuss being named as an emergency instead of Flynn? The contract of both expire at the end of the year

Yes - Preuss is a better player.

 

[Colonial]

Yes - Preuss is a better player.

Maybe but he hasn’t played the entire year.

 

[Battlepants]

Maybe but he hasn’t played the entire year.

True, but I think he's a more valuable emergency. If Briggs or Keeffe went down before tomorrow's game I'd rather have Preuss as a replacement than Flynn.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

CODE Sports

CODE Sports

www.codesports.com.au

No Giant exodus this year​

Greater Western Sydney is more than happy for veteran Nick Haynes

19

Nick Haynes

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

326.8

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

13.9

5star

HB

3.5

2star

M

8.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

MG

326.8

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

to play on next year, despite a back-ended salary that will hit seven figures.

Like many GWS players, Haynes shuffled around money in years of his contract with the last year of a deal expiring next year hitting up to $1.2 million.

But GWS is keen to keep Haynes, with the bigger issue whether he might look for rival opportunities given he has often been used as the sub in recent weeks.

For the first time in many years, GWS has no retention challenges, having signed up a bevy of players including Harry Himmelberg, Lachie Ash, Finn Callaghan, Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

, Xavier O’Halloran and Jake Riccardi.

Rival clubs are open to cap dump opportunities to improve their draft hand but it makes no sense for the Giants to give away a quality pick for someone to absorb Haynes’ deal given they have cap space for him.

GWS will go back to the draft with picks six and 12 (and consider using their pick 50) in one of the most settled off-seasons in recent years.

 

[fridgeman]

True, but I think he's a more valuable emergency. If Briggs or Keeffe went down before tomorrow's game I'd rather have Preuss as a replacement than Flynn.

That also needs to be factored in for the clubs that are looking to recruit him and also for Flynn himself where he sits in the ruck pecking order as he will likely be 2nd or 3rd choice where ever he ends up and is it including academy 12 or 13 years with the club that has developed him and rehabbed him from his ACL and when after all that he is ready to be a solid backup with possibility of plenty of game time if injuries strike he decides to chase the money. The other angle is that the coaches have faith in preuss and are happy to let Flynn walk if he gets a good enough contract offer and the club can be satisfied trade wise (Is he a free agent?)

 

[Giant Strides]

That also needs to be factored in for the clubs that are looking to recruit him and also for Flynn himself where he sits in the ruck pecking order as he will likely be 2nd or 3rd choice where ever he ends up and is it including academy 12 or 13 years with the club that has developed him and rehabbed him from his ACL and when after all that he is ready to be a solid backup with possibility of plenty of game time if injuries strike he decides to chase the money. The other angle is that the coaches have faith in preuss and are happy to let Flynn walk if he gets a good enough contract offer and the club can be satisfied trade wise (Is he a free agent?)

We don't really have a choice in letting him walk since he's UFA.

I agree with the rest. If he went to a club promising him the #1 ruck job, I can easily understand him jumping ship. But I don't see that to be the case, so it may come down to decisions around the difference in $$, and how comfortable he is with moving cities versus preferring to stay "local" (noting he's from country NSW, not Sydney city).

 

[sydney_gws]

We don't really have a choice in letting him walk since he's UFA.

I agree with the rest. If he went to a club promising him the #1 ruck job, I can easily understand him jumping ship. But I don't see that to be the case, so it may come down to decisions around the difference in $$, and how comfortable he is with moving cities versus preferring to stay "local" (noting he's from country NSW, not Sydney city).

I think Geelong would give him a 2 year contract, Melbourne maybe 3. Just speculating though.

 

[Giant Strides]

Re: Nick Haynes

19

Nick Haynes

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

326.8

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

13.9

5star

HB

3.5

2star

M

8.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

MG

326.8

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

article

As I have opined before, I trust that AK and the match committee will be smart and not just select Nick because of his contract or that he's a good guy (which he is!), but if selecting him - as well as Slammer, Bucks, HH & Connor - doesn't balance for the team then they shouldn't. With our TPP clearly in good order, then I'm happy to hold him in reserve (in VFL) next year - worst thing would be to let him go and then have someone like HH go down injured - given that it's only 12 months. After that, Nick will need to decide what he wants. Another extension would be at much reduced $, so he might want to look elsewhere, although I think I read him saying he'd like to be a one-club player.

If he wants to move for 2024, obviously he's in-contract, so provided the coaches are honest with him and his likely usage, that's his call to seek a move at end of this season. But there won't be any draft picks going with him to get elsewhere, it will purely be if a club wants him for the skills he brings. At most, I could see that we would pay some of his $$ - particularly if there's an amount that has been pushed back from earlier years (my memory is around the COVID TPP reduction, and I think Nick took some of that) for a normal salary at the new club - then if he's happy to smooth the remainder a little to pick up a 2 or 3 year total contract that would be his choice.

I'll be content when/if he stays to see the wailing and dummy-spitting from a few of the boards that have been adamant that GWS needs to shed him and we need to send an early draft pick with him. In particular the morons on the Hawks' board. Norths are a bit similar, although TBH I think that they might be one club that could consider him. He's still solid in his role, they've lost Logue for a year, and might lose Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

to FA, and pretty much likely to be just left with Aiden Corr as a tall defender for next year. One year to cover for Logue plus one more while they (hopefully) train up a draftee, and maybe a trigger for a third year. Only if he wants out, which would be to get a better likelihood of first grade time.

Anyway, time will tell, but that article is music to the ears.

 

[Giant Strides]

I think Geelong would give him a 2 year contract, Melbourne maybe 3. Just speculating though.

I should think that Geelong are trawling their coat at multiple second-ranked ruckmen. Yeah, I can see Melbourne as well, they'll need cover for Gawn if Grundy departs. If Sydney doesn't grab Grundy, then I could see them making a play too. If they have to cough up $$ for McKay, then a cheaper ruck than Grundy would work, and they could use him in concert with Ladhams or McLean.

 

[Giant Gutsache]

Re: Nick Haynes article

As I have opined before, I trust that AK and the match committee will be smart and not just select Nick because of his contract or that he's a good guy (which he is!), but if selecting him - as well as Slammer, Bucks, HH & Connor - doesn't balance for the team then they shouldn't. With our TPP clearly in good order, then I'm happy to hold him in reserve (in VFL) next year - worst thing would be to let him go and then have someone like HH go down injured - given that it's only 12 months. After that, Nick will need to decide what he wants. Another extension would be at much reduced $, so he might want to look elsewhere, although I think I read him saying he'd like to be a one-club player.

If he wants to move for 2024, obviously he's in-contract, so provided the coaches are honest with him and his likely usage, that's his call to seek a move at end of this season. But there won't be any draft picks going with him to get elsewhere, it will purely be if a club wants him for the skills he brings. At most, I could see that we would pay some of his $$ - particularly if there's an amount that has been pushed back from earlier years (my memory is around the COVID TPP reduction, and I think Nick took some of that) for a normal salary at the new club - then if he's happy to smooth the remainder a little to pick up a 2 or 3 year total contract that would be his choice.

I'll be content when/if he stays to see the wailing and dummy-spitting from a few of the boards that have been adamant that GWS needs to shed him and we need to send an early draft pick with him. In particular the morons on the Hawks' board. Norths are a bit similar, although TBH I think that they might be one club that could consider him. He's still solid in his role, they've lost Logue for a year, and might lose Ben McKay to FA, and pretty much likely to be just left with Aiden Corr as a tall defender for next year. One year to cover for Logue plus one more while they (hopefully) train up a draftee, and maybe a trigger for a third year. Only if he wants out, which would be to get a better likelihood of first grade time.

Anyway, time will tell, but that article is music to the ears.

Great points. Leek having been so fragile so far adds to the need to hang onto Haynes.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Great points. Leek having been so fragile so far adds to the need to hang onto Haynes.

And in addition Haynes is one of the remaining 5 original Giants. All too soon, we will lose Haynes, Ward and Kennedy as their contracts expire in 2024. I think we should show loyalty for the 12 years Haynes has been with us, and keep him if he wants to stay.

 

[Teeso]

Thoughts on adding some depth to our inside mids with Bytel who was recently delisted from the Saints. Averaging 5+ tackles per game at VFL level and might be a good bigger body support for the younger lads. Should be cheap.

Then also thoughts on potentially going after Coffield if we trade up the draft ladder and look to miss out on O'Sullivan. Not sure what his trade value to the Saints would currently be.

 

[Giant Strides]

Thoughts on adding some depth to our inside mids with Bytel who was recently delisted from the Saints. Averaging 5+ tackles per game at VFL level and might be a good bigger body support for the younger lads. Should be cheap.

Then also thoughts on potentially going after Coffield if we trade up the draft ladder and look to miss out on O'Sullivan. Not sure what his trade value to the Saints would currently be.

I am of the same view of wanting to add some depth to our inside mids. The finely-balanced equation of that for us is getting some one (1) is prepared to make the move to Sydney, & (2) is above VFL level but prepared to sit in VFL to await a chance. Given that the latter is difficult to get, the question is whether we do get someone more at VFL level as that depth.

By the last bit of that paragraph above, I mean that the first grade team is well stacked at the moment - no injuries, and including Callan Ward who won't have too many seasons left. But outside that, it's really only Rowston who's sitting on the sidelines. But two injuries, and we could be exposed.

That situation is hard to sell to get someone to move - can't really guarantee them a spot, so they'll likely move to a team where a spot can be guaranteed, or if not, they would prefer to be in their home state where sitting in VFL is less soul-crushing. I would look at guys like Deven Robertson (Lions) and Paddy Dow (Carlton) who would be great as that senior back-up, but unlikely to look at GWS for that reason (and better options of teams which would give them first grade time).

Another name I would look at might be Will Brodie (Fremantle) - who looked good in the first season after crossing from Suns, only to be pushed out by Jaeger O/Meara coming in this year. But I suspect we won't go after a guy with 3 seasons of a contract left. Other names might be Rhys Mathieson (Lions) - I think that he's not quite AFL level, but good at VFL level.

So, to me, Jack Bytel fits around that level, probably IMHO below Rhys Mathieson. He slipped in his draft year because he's essentially only got one club in his bag, and presumably he's getting moved on for the same reason. Do I think he'll do anything much for us? No, he'd purely be backup in case of injury. Is there value in that? Yes, there is. But the alternative is to take someone in the draft to develop - who might prove better than where we draft them! Guys like Lachie Neale, Luke Parker and Rory Sloane were all drafted quite low, but proved much better than that.

I was actually keen on Nick Coffield in his draft year, and although I haven't seen too much of him directly, my general sense is that he hasn't come on. At 191 cms, I just don't see a role for him at GWS. We're well set in the defensive role that he plays, and I don't think he can translate to midfield. Happy for other views on that.

So, for me, probably a no on both. If we still think we're short on midfield depth, and no-one in the ND or RD appeals, we could also add someone like Bytel during next year's PSSP.

 

[Orange crush]

I am of the same view of wanting to add some depth to our inside mids. The finely-balanced equation of that for us is getting some one (1) is prepared to make the move to Sydney, & (2) is above VFL level but prepared to sit in VFL to await a chance. Given that the latter is difficult to get, the question is whether we do get someone more at VFL level as that depth.

By the last bit of that paragraph above, I mean that the first grade team is well stacked at the moment - no injuries, and including Callan Ward who won't have too many seasons left. But outside that, it's really only Rowston who's sitting on the sidelines. But two injuries, and we could be exposed.

That situation is hard to sell to get someone to move - can't really guarantee them a spot, so they'll likely move to a team where a spot can be guaranteed, or if not, they would prefer to be in their home state where sitting in VFL is less soul-crushing. I would look at guys like Deven Robertson (Lions) and Paddy Dow (Carlton) who would be great as that senior back-up, but unlikely to look at GWS for that reason (and better options of teams which would give them first grade time).

Another name I would look at might be Will Brodie (Fremantle) - who looked good in the first season after crossing from Suns, only to be pushed out by Jaeger O/Meara coming in this year. But I suspect we won't go after a guy with 3 seasons of a contract left. Other names might be Rhys Mathieson (Lions) - I think that he's not quite AFL level, but good at VFL level.

So, to me, Jack Bytel fits around that level, probably IMHO below Rhys Mathieson. He slipped in his draft year because he's essentially only got one club in his bag, and presumably he's getting moved on for the same reason. Do I think he'll do anything much for us? No, he'd purely be backup in case of injury. Is there value in that? Yes, there is. But the alternative is to take someone in the draft to develop - who might prove better than where we draft them! Guys like Lachie Neale, Luke Parker and Rory Sloane were all drafted quite low, but proved much better than that.

I was actually keen on Nick Coffield in his draft year, and although I haven't seen too much of him directly, my general sense is that he hasn't come on. At 191 cms, I just don't see a role for him at GWS. We're well set in the defensive role that he plays, and I don't think he can translate to midfield. Happy for other views on that.

So, for me, probably a no on both. If we still think we're short on midfield depth, and no-one in the ND or RD appeals, we could also add someone like Bytel during next year's PSSP.

Yeah, there are gonna be quite a few young mid players heading to second chance saloon ... we can get one cheap, even in the PSSP as you suggest. Hunter Clark is probably gettable from the Saints as well

 

[GWS Goose]

Are we as short in the midfield as people think?
Finn is destined to be a midfielder, not a winger (we have stacks of wingers in the wings waiting for a chance), XOH and Rowsten.

Perryman was going to play some midfield this year and if get in trouble injury wise he could easily go back in there and do as good a job as Bytel (or someone similar).

Im all for drafting a quality midfielder if possible, but Im not sure we need to go get a fringe mid fielder.

 

[PaythePerryman]

I completely understand that we are well stocked for young talls but after our initial experience of McCarthy, Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Lobb I reckon you need to draft quite a few key position forward to find a combo that will actually get on the field and be successful.
Derksen is probably more unlikely than likely to make it. Gruz and Cadman I really like but if Caddy is more a 'stringer' type then maybe he is that guy who replaces a Toby rather than Watson.

I'm really not sure at the moment. Will be a fascinating draft for us ...with the list quite well balanced I think it's probably best available.

 

[Giant Strides]

Are we as short in the midfield as people think?
Finn is destined to be a midfielder, not a winger (we have stacks of wingers in the wings waiting for a chance), XOH and Rowsten.

Perryman was going to play some midfield this year and if get in trouble injury wise he could easily go back in there and do as good a job as Bytel (or someone similar).

Im all for drafting a quality midfielder if possible, but Im not sure we need to go get a fringe mid fielder.

Yes, I think we are. I've already counted Finn as an inside/outside mid, and agree that we have enough winger (only) types.

Right now our first grade mids are: Green, Coniglio, Ward, Kelly, Callaghan, XOH .... with Cumming playing on a wing too.

Outside of that we have: Angwin (wing only), Stone (wing or half-forward), Rowston (inside mid), Jason Gilbee (winger only).

The winger position in the modern game is not a role where the player just stays outside, like Tom Scully did for us in the early days - well, at least not both wingers. Yes, Cumming and Haynes, when we're played them as wingers, are pretty much that - which we can do for one of those positions. (But we're essentially playing them in that role, because they've been squeezed out of the defensive set-up.) But the other winger really needs to roll through the stoppages, which is where Kelly and Callaghan work outstandingly well as inside-outside mids. That's why I'd love to get Colby McKercher, as another balanced midfielder who can play both outside and inside roles. What better than swapping Finn & Colby between inside and wing positions all day?

At the start of the year, I would have agreed with you on Pez. But clearly, AK is playing him as the "stopping defender", allowing Ash & Whitfield as the counter-attacking defenders, which has squeezed Cumming out to a wing. Pulling Pez from that role then hurts our defensive plan - so we'd be better just having someone else as inside mid coverage.

We've also got a couple of players who, to me at least, are really only outside players and can only play wing - Angwin and Gilbee, adding to Cumming being squeezed out of defence to that role.

Cal Ward might only have one year left, and he's been at his best when played as a pure inside mid, after AK tried to turn him into a forward early in the season. (And we have better forward options - Greene, Bedford, Daniels, Jones, Brown providing pace & pressure.) The good thing is that some of those forwards - Greene, Daniels & Bedford - are good at stoppages, including rolling through some centre bounces, so they alleviate our shortage of pure mids.

We are well stocked for small/medium defenders: Whitfield, Ash, Cumming, add Pez, Wehr, Fahey, Kennedy, Hamilton.

For mids, if you look at our VFL team line-ups each week, it's essentially only Rowston who can play inside mid; otherwise Peatling gets thrown in there, and Stone too (neither of whom will be inside or inside/outside mids at AFL level) plus our VFL selections.

So, I'm firmly of the view that we need to add to our midfield stocks. Players who can do the inside/outside role are preferred: McKercher, Cooper Simpson, Charlie Edwards, Harry DeMattia, Billy Wilson are some of those spread throughout this year's draft. Less preferred are pure inside mids, except I'd potentially take one to prepare for Cal Ward retiring. Which is where the discussion around Bytel, Mathieson etc springs from. It's not a case of being too fixed on who/what we want, but looking around at the totality of the situation.

 

[Giant Strides]

Cal Twomey's latest draft rankings: Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' September ranking

 

[GWS Goose]

Yes, I think we are. I've already counted Finn as an inside/outside mid, and agree that we have enough winger (only) types.

Right now our first grade mids are: Green, Coniglio, Ward, Kelly, Callaghan, XOH .... with Cumming playing on a wing too.

Outside of that we have: Angwin (wing only), Stone (wing or half-forward), Rowston (inside mid), Jason Gilbee (winger only).

The winger position in the modern game is not a role where the player just stays outside, like Tom Scully did for us in the early days - well, at least not both wingers. Yes, Cumming and Haynes, when we're played them as wingers, are pretty much that - which we can do for one of those positions. (But we're essentially playing them in that role, because they've been squeezed out of the defensive set-up.) But the other winger really needs to roll through the stoppages, which is where Kelly and Callaghan work outstandingly well as inside-outside mids. That's why I'd love to get Colby McKercher, as another balanced midfielder who can play both outside and inside roles. What better than swapping Finn & Colby between inside and wing positions all day?

At the start of the year, I would have agreed with you on Pez. But clearly, AK is playing him as the "stopping defender", allowing Ash & Whitfield as the counter-attacking defenders, which has squeezed Cumming out to a wing. Pulling Pez from that role then hurts our defensive plan - so we'd be better just having someone else as inside mid coverage.

We've also got a couple of players who, to me at least, are really only outside players and can only play wing - Angwin and Gilbee, adding to Cumming being squeezed out of defence to that role.

Cal Ward might only have one year left, and he's been at his best when played as a pure inside mid, after AK tried to turn him into a forward early in the season. (And we have better forward options - Greene, Bedford, Daniels, Jones, Brown providing pace & pressure.) The good thing is that some of those forwards - Greene, Daniels & Bedford - are good at stoppages, including rolling through some centre bounces, so they alleviate our shortage of pure mids.

We are well stocked for small/medium defenders: Whitfield, Ash, Cumming, add Pez, Wehr, Fahey, Kennedy, Hamilton.

For mids, if you look at our VFL team line-ups each week, it's essentially only Rowston who can play inside mid; otherwise Peatling gets thrown in there, and Stone too (neither of whom will be inside or inside/outside mids at AFL level) plus our VFL selections.

So, I'm firmly of the view that we need to add to our midfield stocks. Players who can do the inside/outside role are preferred: McKercher, Cooper Simpson, Charlie Edwards, Harry DeMattia, Billy Wilson are some of those spread throughout this year's draft. Less preferred are pure inside mids, except I'd potentially take one to prepare for Cal Ward retiring. Which is where the discussion around Bytel, Mathieson etc springs from. It's not a case of being too fixed on who/what we want, but looking around at the totality of the situation.

I agree with drafting an inside/outside mid (please, please, please McKercher) or even 2 of that type. Darcy Wilson is another I like, that is definitley the type Id draft.

Im not very keen on going out and getting a second tier mid as back up and i cant see a Deven Robertson or alike coming here to run around outside the top side.

 

[Giant Pete]

I think we are a decent chance of grabbing McKercher with a number of teams needing talls.

 

[GWS Goose]

I think we are a decent chance of grabbing McKercher with a number of teams needing talls.

You've got me excited.

 

[Giant Strides]

I'm not very keen on going out and getting a second tier mid as back up and I can't see a Deven Robertson or alike coming here to run around outside the top side.

So that's the finely-balanced list problem we have.

Try to get too-good a player, and they cost too much, aren't prepared to sit in VFL developing, or clog up the first grade team.

Aim for a lesser player who's just happy to stay on a list, and we're potentially undermining ourselves.

Although the salary cap is an issue too - we do need those cheaper "journeymen" players to offset the cost of our star players.

 

[Hendo_21]

Seems like Elijah Hollands is pretty gettable at the moment, would be pushing very hard for him, think he's got loads of talent and could definitely be a mid/fwd type player even played as a winger and looked promising there.