VFL New League Idea

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

At the moment many people like me are fed up with the VFL. The crowds are low to matches and their are many uncompetitive clubs in the league making it worse. I have come up with an idea for a new structure of the VFL.

-All current Victorian AFL clubs now have a reserve team called by their name and are not associated with anyone.
-A structure simular to English football will include 2 divisions for the first year. DIV 1 (the AFL teams reserves) and DIV 2 (old VFA teams). The bottom 2 sides in DIV 1 will be relegated to DIV 2. The premiers and runners up in DIV 2 will be promoted to DIV 1.
-DIV 1 will field 10 teams with the finals top 5. DIV 2 will field 12 teams with the finals top 6.

DIVISION 1 Teams and home grounds: 20 Rounds (Home and Away)
Carlton Football Club (Princes Park)
Collingwood Football Club (Victoria Park)
Essendon Football Club (Windy Hill)
Footscray Bulldogs (Whitten Oval)
Geelong Cats (Simmons Stadium)
Hawthorn Football Club (Waverly Park)
Melbourne Football Club (Olympic Park)
North Melbourne (Arden Street)
Richmond (Punt Road Oval)
St Kilda (Moorabbin Oval)

DIV 1 Finals Structure:
WK 1: Qualifying Final: 2 V 3, Elimination Final: 4 V 5
WK 2: Semi Final 1: 1 V QF Winner, Semi Final 2: QF Loser V EF Winner
WK 3: Preliminary Final: SF1 Loser V SF 2 Winner
WK 4: Grand Final: SF1 Winner V PF Winner @ MCG

DIVISION 2 Teams and home grounds: 22 Rounds (Home and Away)
Bendigo Gold (Queen Elizabeth Oval)
Box Hill Bears (Box Hill City Oval)
Casey Scorpions (Casey Fields)
Coburg Panthers (Piranha Park)
Fitzroy Lions (Junction Oval)
Frankston Dolphins (Frankston Oval)
North Ballarat Roosters (Eureka Oval)
Port Melbourne Borough (North Port Oval)
Preston Bullants (Preston City Oval)
Sandringham Zebras (Trevor Barker Beach Oval)
Werribee Tigers (Chirnside Park)
Williamstown Seagulls (Burbank Oval)

DIV 2 Finals Structure:
WK 1: Qualifying Final: 3 V 4, Elimination Final: 5 V 6
WK 2: Semi Final 1: 1 V 2, Semi Final 2: QF Winner V EF Winner
WK 3: Preliminary Final: SF 1 Loser V SF 2 Winner
WK 4: Grand Final: SF 1 Winner V PF Winner North Port Oval

 

[dmak]

I don't see any benefit coming from your ideal.
Your idea would relegate the DIV 2 clubs to third tier status.
Thereby reducing their chance to attract quality players ,sponsors and crowds.
In the end they would be less likely to survive.

Why would the Box Hil Team be the Bears not the Mustangs as they were previously?
Why would Coburg become the panthers? They only became the Tigers because of their Richmond alignment.
There is great pride around the club that they are now Lions again.

 

[eth-dog]

Would kill the VFL. The best way is to make a genuine AFL reserves comp.

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

Fi

I don't see any benefit coming from your ideal.
Your idea would relegate the DIV 2 clubs to third tier status.
Thereby reducing their chance to attract quality players ,sponsors and crowds.
In the end they would be less likely to survive.

Why would the Box Hil Team be the Bears not the Mustangs as they were previously?
Why would Coburg become the panthers? They only became the Tigers because of their Richmond alignment.
There is great pride around the club that they are now Lions again.

Firstly I never said any of the DIV 2 teams get relegated. Only the bottom 2 DIV 1 teams. This way there will be always be competivness from both leagues.

Box Hill called the bears because I wanted to cancel the association with Hawthorn. I think in the 21st century they wouldn't want to be named after an American horse.

Coburg are proud of their Lions culture, I get that, but there is another Lions team in Fizroy who are more proud. They deresponse be given that honor. In response to ETH dog, Fizroy could act as Brisbane's reserves, perhaps even one or 2 games up at the GABBA.

In the end, if DIV 1 could be made really powerful in the first year by the AFL based clubs, then the old VFA clubs coming in would benefit by getting more money and sponsors. Imagine if FOX or 7 signed to show all DIV 1 matches as most teams would be AFL aligned.

 

[eth-dog]

Fi

Firstly I never said any of the DIV 2 teams get relegated. Only the bottom 2 DIV 1 teams. This way there will be always be competivness from both leagues.

Box Hill called the bears because I wanted to cancel the association with Hawthorn. I think in the 21st century they wouldn't want to be named after an American horse.

Coburg are proud of their Lions culture, I get that, but there is another Lions team in Fizroy who are more proud. They deresponse be given that honor. In response to ETH dog, Fizroy could act as Brisbane's reserves, perhaps even one or 2 games up at the GABBA.

In the end, if DIV 1 could be made really powerful in the first year by the AFL based clubs, then the old VFA clubs coming in would benefit by getting more money and sponsors. Imagine if FOX or 7 signed to show all DIV 1 matches as most teams would be AFL aligned.

Why would it matter? You have the Werribee and Richmond sides in the VFL as "The Tigers" currently and nobody gives a shit

 

[HedgeFund]

Where do Bendigo (who collapsed in 2014 with no community support and don't exist) and Fitzroy (who operate as a purely amateur club with, understandably, no financial support from a cash strapped Brisbane) get the money and numbers to enter a semi professional state league?

Have you thought that one through?

 

[eth-dog]

Where do Bendigo (who collapsed in 2014 with no community support and don't exist) and Fitzroy (who operate as a purely amateur club with, understandably, no financial support from a cash strapped Brisbane) get the money and numbers to enter a semi professional state league?

Have you thought that one through?

Bendigo, if they come back, would be purely an expansion of the Pioneers.

 

[footyfan1978]

At the moment many people like me are fed up with the VFL. The crowds are low to matches and their are many uncompetitive clubs in the league making it worse. I have come up with an idea for a new structure of the VFL.

Not really a new idea. Just slight variation of what myself and others have brought up in discussion in last two years. Main thing was to have division one try to be run parallel with draw of the AFL Vic based clubs so there also be opportunity for some curtain raisers to AFL games for two Vic based clubs.

Also the relegation/promotion was more about only 2 VFA clubs possibly going up and down if they fail to get above bottom two in VFL division. The idea being VFA clubs keep their heritage and names of their clubs as much as possible but gives the best run clubs a chance to showcase their better developing players in with playing against AFL clubs reserves to at least give a few VFA players a second chance of being noticed and drafted in AFL soon after.


As can be shown below starting with my post from exactly two years ago the ideas you think are new are not particularly new. I'm sure other people also put up similar ideas even before me if I looked further. However I hope the AFL Victoria run with one of our versions in not too distant future. I hate the mess it has been in for over two decades.

Having read through all the above my thoughts are as follows:

So it looks like Bendigo are gone from state league level forever and Sandringham going it alone.

This idea of bringing back VFA of late 70's or early 80's is gone. Seriously, most of the VFA clubs as we know it are gone, even if they still exist as a club in some sense in some other league. The power of VFA when they were clubs with some fan base was when VFA footy had the domain of Sunday footy to itself. That went long ago when AFL footy branched out from just being all Saturday games in Melbourne.
To be realistic only Port Melbourne as a stand alone club are clearly strong enough to live on by themselves in a league only one step down from AFL level. Coburg sound like they only exist in name only now and Preston and Carlton alliance, well as a Carlton fan it does nothing for me. I would have a stronger feeling for them if they were either Preston of old or Carlton true reserves side but I don't have same feeling when I see them in red and if I was a long time Preston fan I cannot imagine feeling as passionate when seeing in blue. It sounds like Preston are essentially gone as an own entity club. As someone else said it only seems like Box Hill Hawks works and that is because Box Hill itself was never a VFA power club, so there was not a long standing VFA fan base to start with. Nothing like Port or Sandy. Box Hill had similar colours to Hawks and geographical it works too.

So what do we do ? There really is only Port Melbourne, Williamstown, North Ballarat and maybe Sandringham from VFA that could probably survive in a long term state league but there is not enough old VFA 80's vintage clubs to have a proper VFA as old Sunday domain.
We are better off trying to get something closer to old VFL reserves with curtain raisers to AFL games as the longer term aim. I think 16 clubs is too many and if you include those 4 older VFA clubs as stand alone clubs you could probably create a decent 14 team league. I think it is about the best we can hope for.

Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Sandringham
North Ballarat
Box Hill Hawks
Essendon
Footscray
Carlton
St.Kilda
Collingwood
North Melbourne
Geelong
Richmond
Melbourne

I think we have to give up the Casey Scorpions/Springvale/Melbourne thing and also except Coburg and Frankston days are numbered at this level. 16 clubs just has the standard too low.

The league has been a dogs breakfast for a good decade and a half. It needs sorting out for long term.
At AFL level the lack of pre-game entertainment is embarrassing. Surely curtain raisers would make the comp more relevant to more football fans in general?
There have been way to many byes for a number of seasons. As a Carlton fan trying to follow what is happening with our players not in AFL side it is a joke to find byes at times that just mess with the whole flow of season. So frustrating. It is a joke to have 3 or 4 byes during home and away and season not aligned as close to AFL fixturing as possible. 14 teams with 22 rounds and a final 8 would be better way to go. Surely?
Align the fixtures more attuned to AFL match ups. If Footscray are playing St.Kilda at Etithad Stadium have their VFL teams play before hand. Is it really that hard to organize ?

If an AFL Victorian based club is playing interstate, try to have them drawn to play an old VFA club that round. If North are playing Eagles in Perth have their VFL team be playing Sandringham, North Ballarat, Port Melbourne or Willy.

On Grand Final day in AFL have the VFL grand final the curtain raiser and if a stand alone club makes it into grand final there is a sensible allocation of tickets for their supporters to be there.

AFL fans should be able to see at least half their games in season have a curtain raiser with their VFL team playing. It just makes more sense. The VFA of Sunday football domain went with late 1980's. We cannot bring that back but least try to bring back something footy fans loved that has been lost in last 20 years., which was curtain raisers to their AFL club. It would be something.

Historically Williamstown and Port Melbourne were the longer lasting VFA clubs that had links all the way back to early days of VFA around the time VFL clubs broke away. It would be nice link to have a part of both leagues we lost in last 20 years (VFA and AFL reserves) have an element of each come together for the long term future. Port Melbourne, Willy and the 10 Vic based AFL reserves sides in a competition makes more sense that the dogs breakfast with no vision we had the last 20 years.
As Sam Kekovich himself would say. You know it makes sense.

Are Frankston going to be in VFL next year ?
43.66% on ladder and get beaten by other poor sides regularly by over 100 points.

Certainly 15 teams is too much.
The sooner we remove the bye the better for everyone.

CURRENT LADDER
POS TEAM P W L D B FOR AGST % PTS
1 Box Hill Hawks 17 14 3 0 0 1729 1102 156.90 56
2 Williamstown 17 12 5 0 0 1682 1215 138.44 48
3 Sandringham 16 12 4 0 0 1488 1246 119.42 48
4 Footscray Bulldogs 17 11 6 0 0 1643 1221 134.56 44
5 Essendon 17 11 6 0 0 1600 1292 123.84 44
6 Werribee Tigers 17 11 6 0 0 1494 1280 116.72 44
7 Collingwood 17 11 6 0 0 1561 1427 109.39 44
8 Casey Scorpions 17 9 8 0 0 1344 1263 106.41 36
9 Port Melbourne 17 7 10 0 0 1562 1525 102.43 28
10 North Ballarat 17 7 10 0 0 1295 1447 89.50 28
11 Coburg 17 7 10 0 0 1247 1471 84.77 28
12 Geelong Cats 16 6 10 0 0 1205 1421 84.80 24
13 Richmond Tigers 17 5 12 0 0 1273 1525 83.48 20
14 Northern Blues 17 4 13 0 0 1273 1660 76.69 16
15 Frankston 18 0 18 0 0 1008 2309 43.66 0

They've been hopeless this year, but usually they at least manage a few wins (6 last year I think?). Frankston is also an old club with a long VFA/VFL history, and their new social club building has just been completed. All in all it would be very disappointing to see them go.

The St Kilda reserves team is due in 2017.

That is interesting about the social club building.
I did not think they were one of the long lasting original VFA clubs.
I'm sure they were playing in 1970's and maybe a decade or two before but were they there around 1900 ?
I think we need to keep the originals such as Willy and Port Melbourne for sure but not sure the length of history for Frankston so much.
If their club just played in a lower level league maybe it would be better. Not sure of the following for them locally for short to longer. Be interested to hear from people in that area that take an interest.

St.Kilda in VFL is good to hear. Just not sure about the number of teams being 15 or 16.
14 I think is most to keep standard reasonable.
12 would be ideal but the cost to a few clubs maybe going elsewhere is the issue.

Maybe they need to separate into AFL Reserves (called the VFL) and the VFA again, with say 10 teams:

Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Coburg
Sandringham
Casey/Springvale
Box Hill
Werribee
North Ballarat
Frankston (you would think that they should be more competitive once AFL alignments are removed)
Preston

Obviously though we all know what happened to the VFA, and chances are, that without the AFL reserves teams the interest in the competition, interest would be lost.

Personally I still enjoy the VFL with the number of teams it has at the moment, but yes, Frankston is becoming a real issue. I would think if things don't turn around next season their position will be seriously considered.

Like the idea, but not the teams. There's so many teams from Melbourne in the AFL for the VFL to succeed in that format they need to spread the teams around. Get interest from cities with not as much AFL exposure. I'd have 11 teams

Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Coburg
Sandringham
Box Hill
Werribee
North Ballarat
Frankston
Goulburn Valley
Bendigo
Geelong

I was more just going off the traditional VFA clubs.

I'm pretty sure in the early 2000s there was a team from Gippsland as well as the Murray Kangaroos, but neither of those teams worked out. Bendigo also had its go but unfortunately the Gold just simply couldn't compete. Maybe though with not having to compete against AFL players they would be viable.

Bendigo Gold was essentially a franchise, the VFA screwed it horribly. They didn't ask one of the existing big clubs from Bendigo into the league, they took QE Oval and made their own. It was destined to fail.

Not a bad idea actually.
I remember the old VFL had two divisions. I certainly remember sides like Brunswick, Caulfield, Dandenong and Geelong West used to exist in VFA and there was a relegation system.

Maybe your idea could be adapted to something of that form
I think if we treated the AFL 10 Victorian clubs as having genuine reserves teams as the essence of a division one and some of the old traditional VFA clubs as division two with the the premiership stand alone club promoted to division one it could work in an odd way for long term.
So you might have 12 teams in VFL (division one) and 8 teams in VFA (division two) it could fit where we are at in where state league level should be.

Certainly the sooner, Carlton, St.Kilda, Melbourne and North Melbourne get their own reserves team in true name we could have the 10 reserves team and two best stand alone VFA clubs in division one and it removes byes and fixture the VFL in a way where when the 10 AFL Vic clubs play each other in AFL that their reserves teams play the same week as much as possible and have more curtain raisers where possible. Certainly as a Carlton supporter I know we had 3 curtain raisers during year but only the one v Collingwood at MCG was against the same club we played in AFL. I think we need more of that.

So it might start with the following set up
VFL
Box Hill Hawks
Footscray
St.Kilda
Geelong
Essendon
Geelong
Carlton
Collingwood
Richmond
North Melbourne
Williamstown
Port Melbourne

VFA
Casey Scorpions
Sandringham
Werribee
Coburg
Preston
North Ballarat
Frankston
Dandenong

The VFA could start as 8 team league and play each other 3 times for 21 home and away rounds and have a old top four finals series.
Premiership team promoted to VFL the following season and lowest stand alone club of the two in VFL is relegated to make place for the VFA premiers the following year.

If in time the VFA grew to 10 teams and allowed another form of a Bendigo club to get involved that should remain open as possibility and also a Gippsland Valley team or some other old VFA club like Prahran or even some form of a Fitzroy club brought into existence. Not sure but I believe something of this nature could work if given a decent chance of a decade to find a footing in Victoria.

Would be interesting alternative idea to current mix of the way state league level footy in run here.
I'd love to see things like my own Carlton reserves team and Preston Bullants exist as individual teams.
Maybe Hawthorn and Box Hill creating Box Hill Hawks has been a genuine win-win for both entities that could remain as it is.

 

[footyfan1978]

Still in essence think this is what they should be doing.

So it might start with the following set up
VFL
Box Hill Hawks
Footscray
St.Kilda
Geelong
Essendon
Geelong
Carlton
Collingwood
Richmond
North Melbourne
Williamstown
Port Melbourne

VFA
Casey Scorpions
Sandringham
Werribee
Coburg
Preston
North Ballarat
Frankston
Dandenong

The VFA could start as 8 team league and play each other 3 times for 21 home and away rounds and have a old top four finals series.
Premiership team promoted to VFL the following season and lowest stand alone club of the two in VFL is relegated to make place for the VFA premiers the following year.

If in time the VFA grew to 10 teams and allowed another form of a Bendigo club to get involved that should remain open as possibility and also a Gippsland Valley team or some other old VFA club like Prahran or even some form of a Fitzroy club brought into existence. Not sure but I believe something of this nature could work if given a decent chance of a decade to find a footing in Victoria.

Would be interesting alternative idea to current mix of the way state league level footy in run here.
I'd love to see things like my own Carlton reserves team and Preston Bullants exist as individual teams.
Maybe Hawthorn and Box Hill creating Box Hill Hawks has been a genuine win-win for both entities that could remain as it is.

 

[eth-dog]

Overall, my opinion is that we should scrap AFL involvement with the state leagues and bring back a reserves Comp (as I already said). What we should also do is scrap the TAC Cup, and either merge or expand those teams.

Coburg Lions (merged with Calder)
Preston Bullants (w/ Northern)
Box Hill Mustangs (w/ Eastern)
Port Melbourne Borough
Williamstown Seagulls
Werribee Tigers (w/ Western)
North Ballarat Roosters (w/ NBR)
Sandringham Zebras (w/ Sandy)
Dandenong Scorpions (Dandy/Casey)
Bendigo Pioneers (expanded)
Oakleigh Chargers (expanded)
Shepparton Bushrangers (expanded)
Geelong Falcons (expanded)
Gippsland Power (expanded)

A 14 team state league comp. There's a good mix between Northern Suburbs (Preston, Coburg), Western (Werribee, Williamstown), inner city (Port Melbourne, Oakleigh), Eastern Suburbs (Box Hill), South Eastern (Dandenong, Sandringham) and country (Bendigo, North Ballarat, Shepparton, Geelong, Gippsland) so the talent will be fairly evenly spread.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

Some well thought ideas, whether or not people actually agree with it all.

My biggest query is around what is best for the VFL vs best for the AFL.

Up north Brisbane, GWS, Sydney and Gold Coast players can't get decent competition at the next level.

In W.A and S.A, competitions at the same level as the VFL are horribly compromised as only two teams in each of those competitions have AFL alignments. I'm West Australian and have to admit S.A have handled it better than W.A did, but it still severely impacts the week to week and overall 'fairness' of those competitions.

I must confess for the reasons above, I'm a proponent of a national AFL reserves competition. Not to be played as curtain raisers as some have suggested, so the ability is there for people who follow an AFL club but can't afford AFL tickets to go and watch their next tier players.

I know in Victoria this leaves Williamstown, Port Melbourne etc as arguably the third tier or football, but ditto for clubs the likes of East Fremantle, West Perth, Subiaco, Norwood, Glenelg etc who have plenty of history and proud heritage from the pre AFL days in their respective states.

 

[eth-dog]

It doesn't necessarily have to be curtain raisers. For example, I would love to see Essendon vs Carlton at Windy Hill and I'm sure Saints fans would love to see St. Kilda vs Sydney at Moorabin. It could be a throwback to suburban football.

The reserves GF could be played as a curtain raiser to the real one. You keep the VFL comp fairly similar to the SANFL and WAFL too.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

It doesn't necessarily have to be curtain raisers. For example, I would love to see Essendon vs Carlton at Windy Hill and I'm sure Saints fans would love to see St. Kilda vs Sydney at Moorabin. It could be a throwback to suburban football.

The reserves GF could be played as a curtain raiser to the real one. You keep the VFL comp fairly similar to the SANFL and WAFL too.

Spot on. Have seen others elsewhere suggest to play as curtain raisers. Personally I'm with you on this. I enjoyed watching Footscray v Richmond this year at Footscray, watching the next level. Also went to Richmond v Casey at Punt Rd and as a 40 something footy fan it didn't 'feel the same' even though it was essentially Melbourne reserves (who were a good side to boot).

Reserves GF as curtain raiser makes some sense, though it does directly contradict some of the logic for not holding the regular season as curtain raisers. We've just locked out the same fans we've been trying to attract all year. When the whining starts about home ground advantage for the GF and 'it's a national competition' I may not log in for a while.....

 

[HedgeFund]

Overall, my opinion is that we should scrap AFL involvement with the state leagues and bring back a reserves Comp (as I already said). What we should also do is scrap the TAC Cup, and either merge or expand those teams.

Coburg Lions (merged with Calder)
Preston Bullants (w/ Northern)
Box Hill Mustangs (w/ Eastern)
Port Melbourne Borough
Williamstown Seagulls
Werribee Tigers (w/ Western)
North Ballarat Roosters (w/ NBR)
Sandringham Zebras (w/ Sandy)
Dandenong Scorpions (Dandy/Casey)
Bendigo Pioneers (expanded)
Oakleigh Chargers (expanded)
Shepparton Bushrangers (expanded)
Geelong Falcons (expanded)
Gippsland Power (expanded)

A 14 team state league comp. There's a good mix between Northern Suburbs (Preston, Coburg), Western (Werribee, Williamstown), inner city (Port Melbourne, Oakleigh), Eastern Suburbs (Box Hill), South Eastern (Dandenong, Sandringham) and country (Bendigo, North Ballarat, Shepparton, Geelong, Gippsland) so the talent will be fairly evenly spread.

So what you're suggesting is that all Victorian u18s who get drafted into the AFL system would come through.......what?

How do these players who make up 50-65% of draftees each year get in front of recruiters? By playing state league football against 25 year olds when they're 17?

Wow.

 

[footyfan1978]

It doesn't necessarily have to be curtain raisers. For example, I would love to see Essendon vs Carlton at Windy Hill

Think there would need to be a balance. I think half the game curtain raisers and half away from AFL grounds would be a decent balance.
I approach this with both the hat of AFL attending supporter missing curtain raisers and the other hat of wanting that element of suburban VFA feel to come back also.
The problem we have now is it serves neither aspect. AFL games in Victoria have no curtain raisers which is serious downer for the match day experience and the fixture is so stupid you can have your VFL team having a bye at silly times that does not help the cause of players on fringe trying to get in AFL team. Plus with VFL teams playing on different days so often it just makes it hard for our AFL clubs to manage emergencies more for that weekend and the following week if 6 day breaks need to be considered. If your VFL side is playing on Sunday and AFL team the next Friday night. Guess what ? , you need to either pull out players from VFL side on Sunday or play some and know the rules them out of playing the next Friday night because the players association requires that 6 day break be complied with.

That is why I strongly want to see the VFL teams mirror AFL teams draw and also that ideally gives times for curtain raisers to AFL games. Not every round but at least every couple of weeks I feel is needed.
More Carlton and Essendon fans would benefit from sometimes seeing their VFL sides play each other before the main game as a curtain raiser than we are going to by seeing Carlton and Essendon play each other at Windy Hill, Tullamarine, Preston or Princes Park.
But noted MCC need to look after their surface so a curtain raiser for every AFL game needs balanced out to maybe one each weekend over whatever games are at MCG. I think the day games having curtain raiser before them makes the most sense. If there is a night game on, the reserves play at the suburban grounds earlier in day. Thereby you get a mix of curtain raisers to experience and suburban oval games.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

So what you're suggesting is that all Victorian u18s who get drafted into the AFL system would come through.......what?

How do these players who make up 50-65% of draftees each year get in front of recruiters? By playing state league football against 25 year olds when they're 17?

Wow.

I'm guessing / assuming he means those clubs would have a league and underage side so it would essentially replicate the WAFL and SANFL structures as a pathway to being drafted.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

Think there would need to be a balance. I think half the game curtain raisers and half away from AFL grounds would be a decent balance.
I approach this with both the hat of AFL attending supporter missing curtain raisers and the other hat of wanting that element of suburban VFA feel to come back also.
The problem we have now is it serves neither aspect. AFL games in Victoria have no curtain raisers which is serious downer for the match day experience and the fixture is so stupid you can have your VFA team having a bye at silly times that does not help the cause of players on fringe trying to get in AFL team. Plus with VFa teams playing om different days so often it just makes it hard to AFL clubs to manage emergencies more for that weekend and the following week if 6 day breaks need to be considered. If your VFL side is playing on Sunday and AFL team the next Friday night. Guess what, you need to either pull out players from VFA side on Sunday or play some and know the rules them out of playing the next Friday night because the players association requires that 6 day break be complied with.

That is why I strongly want to see the VFA teams mirror AFL teams draw and also that ideally gives times for curtain raisers to AFL games. Not every round but at least every couple of weeks I feel is needed.
More Carlton and Essendon fans would benefit from sometimes seeing their VFA sides play each other before the main game as a curtain raiser than we are going to by seeing Carlton and Essendon play each other at Windy Hill, Tullamarine, Preston or Princes Park.
But noted MCC need to look after their surface so a curtain raiser for every AFL game needs balanced out to maybe one each weekend over whatever games are at MCG. I think the day games having curtain raiser before them makes the most sense. If there is a night game on, the reserves play at the suburban grounds earlier in day. Thereby you get a mix of curtain raisers to experience and suburban oval games.

Interesting balance isn't it. Try and draw fans to the AFL reserves who might not otherwise attend the AFL games for whatever reason and if the games are on the same day you then lose the hardcore fans who would like to watch both, but if it's on a different day you create player break type issues. As you suggest, perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the middle to try and appeal to both.

Was actually really surprised when I went to Footscray v Richmond VFL this year how many people jumped on the train when it finished, heading for Western Bulldogs game at Etihad that night.

 

[eth-dog]

So what you're suggesting is that all Victorian u18s who get drafted into the AFL system would come through.......what?

How do these players who make up 50-65% of draftees each year get in front of recruiters? By playing state league football against 25 year olds when they're 17?

Wow.

Same as the WAFL/SANFL structure.

Think there would need to be a balance. I think half the game curtain raisers and half away from AFL grounds would be a decent balance.
I approach this with both the hat of AFL attending supporter missing curtain raisers and the other hat of wanting that element of suburban VFA feel to come back also.
The problem we have now is it serves neither aspect. AFL games in Victoria have no curtain raisers which is serious downer for the match day experience and the fixture is so stupid you can have your VFA team having a bye at silly times that does not help the cause of players on fringe trying to get in AFL team. Plus with VFa teams playing om different days so often it just makes it hard to AFL clubs to manage emergencies more for that weekend and the following week if 6 day breaks need to be considered. If your VFL side is playing on Sunday and AFL team the next Friday night. Guess what, you need to either pull out players from VFA side on Sunday or play some and know the rules them out of playing the next Friday night because the players association requires that 6 day break be complied with.

That is why I strongly want to see the VFA teams mirror AFL teams draw and also that ideally gives times for curtain raisers to AFL games. Not every round but at least every couple of weeks I feel is needed.
More Carlton and Essendon fans would benefit from sometimes seeing their VFA sides play each other before the main game as a curtain raiser than we are going to by seeing Carlton and Essendon play each other at Windy Hill, Tullamarine, Preston or Princes Park.
But noted MCC need to look after their surface so a curtain raiser for every AFL game needs balanced out to maybe one each weekend over whatever games are at MCG. I think the day games having curtain raiser before them makes the most sense. If there is a night game on, the reserves play at the suburban grounds earlier in day. Thereby you get a mix of curtain raisers to experience and suburban oval games.

Nail. Head. Hit.

 

[HedgeFund]

Same as the WAFL/SANFL structure.

Except in WAFL and SANFL the AFL clubs run their reserves teams in those competitions basically against the "stand alones".

I can't see the existing VFL clubs who perform strongly (Port and Willy) copping this junior TAC Cup merger idea and also getting relegated to what becomes clearly the third tier competition in Victoria (after AFL and AFL reserves).

All players who want to get drafted but missed out would want to be supplementary listed players with AFL reserve teams rather than get lumped into the 14 club "revamped" VFL. If they don't get a game where do they play? Local?

By aligning the current TAC Cup sides with old VFA teams as you've suggested that will link the elite juniors to a third rate senior league.

Playing senior VFL won't seem very attractive unless you're 24 years old and know you will never make the grade. Sponsors would rather get onboard the AFL reserve competition as well.

I can't see it working out in practical terms, but impressed that you've had a crack.

 

[terrybull]

I like the idea, although it won't probably never happen. There was a major flaw in your week 1 division 2 finals though. Both games are Elimination Finals and finishing third is worse than finishing fourth. I would have both Divisions have a final five system.
Another change I'd make is that the Runners-up in Div2 must beat the second last played team for a div1 spot.
Also I put Port Melbourne and Willamstown in Division 1. Sydney Swans to sponsor South Melbourne Bloods as Brisbane would do Fitzroy in your idea. Bring in Tasmania and old Univerity. For those that liked the old VFL and VFA this be a wet dream I reckon...


DIVISION 1 Teams and home grounds:
Carlton Blues (Princes Park)
Collingwood Magpies (Victoria Park)
Essendon Bombers (Windy Hill)
Footscray Bulldogs (Whitten Oval)
Geelong Cats (Simmons Stadium)
Hawthorn Hawks (Waverly Park)
Melbourne Demons (Olympic Park)
North Melbourne Shinboners (Arden Street)
Port Melbourne Boroughs (North Port Oval)
Richmond Tigers (Punt Road Oval)
St Kilda Saints (Moorabbin Oval)
Williamstowm Seagulls (Burbank Oval)

DIV 1 Finals Structure:
WK 1: Qualifying Final: 2 V 3, Elimination Final: 4 V 5
WK 2: Semi Final 1: 1 V QF Winner, Semi Final 2: QF Loser V EF Winner
WK 3: Preliminary Final: SF1 Loser V SF 2 Winner
WK 4: Grand Final: SF1 Winner V PF Winner @ MCG

DIVISION 2 Teams and home grounds:
Box Hill Mustangs(Box Hill City Oval)
Casey Scorpions (Casey Fields)
Coburg Lions (Piranha Park)
Fitzroy Maroons (Brunswick Oval)
Frankston Dolphins (Frankston Oval)
North Ballarat Roosters (Eureka Oval)
Preston Bullants (Preston City Oval)
Sandringham Zebras (Trevor Barker Beach Oval)
South Melbourne Bloods (Junction Oval)
Tasmania Devils
Werribee Wasps (Chirnside Park)
University Students (Junction Oval)

DIV 2 Finals Structure:
Same as Div 1

 

[HedgeFund]

You do realise Junction Oval has been gazetted as the permanent full time home of Cricket Victoria (never to have any sport other than cricket played there).

Also what's the commercial incentive for Brisbane or Sydney to sponsor South Melbourne (currently in D3, or F grade Ammos) or Fitzroy the necessary $1 million per year to get up to scratch to compete against the likes of Box Hill, Sandringham or Casey? Let alone exhuming the corpses that are the Frankston FC and the Tasmania Devils.

The most realistic revival you seek is University as it's a massive club with strong revenue streams. I'd still put their chances of participating in a league outside the VAFA as about 1000000/1.

So there is a chance.

 

[eth-dog]

Also; why would Werribee no longer be the Tigers?

 

[lion around]

You do realise Junction Oval has been gazetted as the permanent full time home of Cricket Victoria (never to have any sport other than cricket played there).

Also what's the commercial incentive for Brisbane or Sydney to sponsor South Melbourne (currently in D3, or F grade Ammos) or Fitzroy the necessary $1 million per year to get up to scratch to compete against the likes of Box Hill, Sandringham or Casey? Let alone exhuming the corpses that are the Frankston FC and the Tasmania Devils.

The most realistic revival you seek is University as it's a massive club with strong revenue streams. I'd still put their chances of participating in a league outside the VAFA as about 1000000/1.

So there is a chance.

Don't think i will get to see Fitzroy back in VFL I'm afraid to say. Having said that I do enjoy the local VAFA more than any other league the last few years. And I've been a member of Port Melbourne.

 

[footyfan1978]

You do realise Junction Oval has been gazetted as the permanent full time home of Cricket Victoria (never to have any sport other than cricket played there).

Yep, 10 clubs in the VFA division sounds the ideal go.
Remove the 2 in that idea for Junction Oval and have it.

 

[terrybull]

You do realise Junction Oval has been gazetted as the permanent full time home of Cricket Victoria (never to have any sport other than cricket played there).

Also what's the commercial incentive for Brisbane or Sydney to sponsor South Melbourne (currently in D3, or F grade Ammos) or Fitzroy the necessary $1 million per year to get up to scratch to compete against the likes of Box Hill, Sandringham or Casey? Let alone exhuming the corpses that are the Frankston FC and the Tasmania Devils.

The most realistic revival you seek is University as it's a massive club with strong revenue streams. I'd still put their chances of participating in a league outside the VAFA as about 1000000/1.

So there is a chance.

Ah but one can still dream.

Think the biggest problem is the public are not interested whatever is done. Seemed more people attended other than VFL/AFL games up to the late 80's.
Now with AFL games on Thursday to Monday's and all available online 24/7 means people get their footy fix and don't feel motivated to attend amateur or semi amateur Leagues anymore...