Crowds, what's needed to get them back to the VFL(VFA)

[STANG-A]

Let's hope that whoever replaces Ken Gannon understands this. It'll be a make or break decision, got to get the right person! Frank Lowie? (spelling?)

 

[Copernicus]

They just need to promote the comp more. Does the AFL have a hand in that or is the VFL completely independent? I'm not sure how close of a relationship they have to each other. The VFL may not have the funds but obviously the AFL does - but if the VFL is seen as a competitor rather than a partner then I guess the AFL wont be sparing any money to them.

 

[Roylion]

Fitzroy back in the VFA/VFL?

THE Fitzroy Football Club still exists.

www.fitzroyfc.com.au

Fitzroy had over 1,000 members in 2006, including shareholder members and ordinary members. Supporters of course number many more (e.g the Brisbane Lions have over 5,000 Victorian members - the vast majority of whom are Fitzroy supporters) and there are many of those who would watch VFL matches if a bona-fide Fitzroy team (complete with the Fitzroy guernsey, Lion emblem and so on) were to compete.

Fitzroy's existing VFA (VFL record) stands at:

- 13 seasons
- 247 games (including 18 games each against existing clubs Williamstown and Port Melbourne)
- 137 wins, 82 losses, 28 draws
- Premierships: 1 (1895)
- Runners-Up: 1 (1892)

 

[STANG-A]

Have always thought that this would be a fantastic thing!

The Fitzroy supporters really got behind the Coburg-Fitzroy team in 2000, often 3,000-3,500 there, the biggest crowds out there for years. A home ground would be the only thing . . . don't think Fitzroy residents are keen on Brunswick St. being fenced off again . . . Unley Oval has temporary fencing put up for matches . . . could be an option. Victoria Park is going to be re-developed, could be an option with a lower capacity . . . it's just one of those things that to me seems to make so much sense . . . but you kind of just know deep down that it won't.

Pro's
-Fitzroy F.C could compete at the highest level possible
-Increased interest in the VFA/L competition
-Increased crowds at away matches
-Fitzroy does have a historical link with the competion
-Be bloody good to see!!!
I'm sure there's more

Con's
-Home ground!
-Cash . . .getting the concept off the ground
-Players, building a competitive team, especially against alignments

If the VFL is serious about looking at diverse ways to increase crowds, sponsorship, coverage and just general interest, they'd have to at least look at this idea!!!

 

[KingRich]

This may have already been said but isn't the basic reason why crowds have left because the AFL alignments have taken a lot of the clubs identity away? Too many players cant get a game anymore and have to make way for AFL players etc. Who wants to watch THEIR team play with only half of their players running around with some ring ins?? Yes its interesting to go along and watch the AFL players but there is no passion there! IMO that is the fundamental problem.

Yes as a Hawthorn supporter I am more likely to perhaps see a Box Hill game than I was before but I'll hardly plan to go and if I do go I wont be really cheering, I'll just be keeping an eye on the listed players. Personally I was a fan of the old VFA and the old AFL reserves system. This current system seems very disjointed and the only thing it has done is help AFL clubs cut costs.

 

[Ron Hitler Barassi]

This may have already been said but isn't the basic reason why crowds have left because the AFL alignments have taken a lot of the clubs identity away? Too many players cant get a game anymore and have to make way for AFL players etc. Who wants to watch THEIR team play with only half of their players running around with some ring ins?? Yes its interesting to go along and watch the AFL players but there is no passion there! IMO that is the fundamental problem.

Yes as a Hawthorn supporter I am more likely to perhaps see a Box Hill game than I was before but I'll hardly plan to go and if I do go I wont be really cheering, I'll just be keeping an eye on the listed players. Personally I was a fan of the old VFA and the old AFL reserves system. This current system seems very disjointed and the only thing it has done is help AFL clubs cut costs.

Rumour has it that the VFL as we currently know it is in real trouble. AFL is seriously considering bringing back the reserves competition and cutting all affiliations with the VFL.

With the good young players wanting to play AFL reserves and older players being lured to the country / suburbs with obscene money, one would have to wonder (and worry) where this would leave the VFL competition.

 

[KingRich]

Rumour has it that the VFL as we currently know it is in real trouble. AFL is seriously considering bringing back the reserves competition and cutting all affiliations with the VFL.

With the good young players wanting to play AFL reserves and older players being lured to the country / suburbs with obscene money, one would have to wonder (and worry) where this would leave the VFL competition.

As someone who loves the AFL reserves i think this would be brilliant. Would this be such a bad thing for the VFL if this happened though? I mean the first year or 2 may be tough while clubs stabilise and build up their player base again but after that I think it would bring the fans back!

Any source on this rumour Barras??? Or is it just rumour???

 

[Copernicus]

Rumour has it that the VFL as we currently know it is in real trouble. AFL is seriously considering bringing back the reserves competition and cutting all affiliations with the VFL.

With the good young players wanting to play AFL reserves and older players being lured to the country / suburbs with obscene money, one would have to wonder (and worry) where this would leave the VFL competition.

I almost wonder if this would be preferable. At least that way they will be separate competitions, and this may make people identify with the local VFL teams more. I guess it remains to be seen what impact such a move might have when they implement it, but I think it would be more of a positive step than a negative one.

 

[onslaught]

We need more standalone clubs in the VFL to bring back crowds... I'm sure most Williamstown supporters would feel a lot more passionate about the club if it was independent once again. You would probably get more Collingwood supporters going if the Pies fielded their own side in the VFL as well.

There has been a review of football including Victoria that I think is due to be released in 2007. It was looking at some of the options of re-introducing a an AFL reserves comp, and expanded VFL, and even an eastern 'conference' type setup. I'll try and find the article on that.

 

[STANG-A]

Having the AFL ressies back with the separate VFL/A again would be great in many ways, but i feel clubs such as Coburg, Preston, and possibly even Box Hill couldn't stand up. From what i've heard, Coburg looks fairly grim, possibly a year to year propostition.

Williamstown MUST go stand-alone! They are one club who can afford to, but if they keep losing players because they can't get a go, then why are they in the comp? Being one of the proudest and oldest clubs from the VFA, the Seagulls should take a leaf from Port Melbournes book, take a risk, and go stand alone! With Frankston, Port Melbourne and Williamstown going it alone, this would really balance the comp well.

Sandy and Melbourne have a good relationship, as do Box Hill/Hawthorn and Werribee/Footscray, but Willy and Collingwood just don't seem that way, doesn't seem to have that cohesian. Nothing links the clubs, the suburbs are chalk and cheese, whereas some of the other alignments make a bit more geographical sense!

 

[bakerman]

I think Tassie will be up there this year with Cresswell coaching and a few boys coming back. I have heard that Armstrong was not very well liked by the playing group. Ben Beams has stood down as captian and wants to concentrate on his footy which is a good sign.
I don't think the will win it be they will be around about the top 4.

 

[fishmonger]

Have always thought that this would be a fantastic thing!

The Fitzroy supporters really got behind the Coburg-Fitzroy team in 2000, often 3,000-3,500 there, the biggest crowds out there for years. A home ground would be the only thing . . . don't think Fitzroy residents are keen on Brunswick St. being fenced off again . . . Unley Oval has temporary fencing put up for matches . . . could be an option. Victoria Park is going to be re-developed, could be an option with a lower capacity . . . it's just one of those things that to me seems to make so much sense . . . but you kind of just know deep down that it won't.

Pro's
-Fitzroy F.C could compete at the highest level possible
-Increased interest in the VFA/L competition
-Increased crowds at away matches
-Fitzroy does have a historical link with the competion
-Be bloody good to see!!!
I'm sure there's more

Con's
-Home ground!
-Cash . . .getting the concept off the ground
-Players, building a competitive team, especially against alignments

If the VFL is serious about looking at diverse ways to increase crowds, sponsorship, coverage and just general interest, they'd have to at least look at this idea!!!

would be a fairytale, but unlikely to happen. I have not even heard rumours of it.

 

[fishmonger]

Rumour has it that the VFL as we currently know it is in real trouble. AFL is seriously considering bringing back the reserves competition and cutting all affiliations with the VFL.

With the good young players wanting to play AFL reserves and older players being lured to the country / suburbs with obscene money, one would have to wonder (and worry) where this would leave the VFL competition.

I would definately believe this.
The AFL should cut affiliations. It is not bringing any supporters to the VFL, in the long term, it will do the reverse. I have become more interested in Port since they cut ties with the AFL.

I wouldn't worry about the AFL reserves becoming a threat as far as spectators go, however. If standalone sides like Geelong were introduced to the VFL and the salary cap increased for VFL clubs (not standalone AFL clubs), it would bring a whole new element to the comp, giving VFL players the ability to compete against AFL level players on a regular basis. And increasing the AFL rookie age would give more opportunities to successfully bridge between the two competitions.

 

[Roylion]

I have also always felt that the old Fitzroy would fit the current VFL hand-in-glove. Write a letter to the paper. Call SEN. Drum up support. Seriously.

I agree. Fitzroy would be perfect as the 14th VFL club.

Advantages for the VFL.
- Comes complete with history and tradition in both the VFL-AFL and the VFA-VFL.
- Has own training ground - Brunswick St. Oval
- Has just under 1,200 existing members (even without a team). Imagine if it had a team of its very own playing in the old colours and guernsey. Crowds of 4,000 + would be very possible
- Is completely independent of the Brisbane Lions, with its' own independent board (still chaired by Dyson Hore-Lacy), own members and own revenue streams, including an operating merchandise shop and $25 memberships. Would need to provide extra revenue streams though.

Con's
-Home ground!

Victoria Park or Fitzroy's old home ground at the Junction Oval (which I believe is now used as a training venue for Melbourne) might be a good home ground.

-Cash . . .getting the concept off the ground

Probably close to a million dollars would be needed. A couple of rich benefactors would be nice and the balance of required funds raised from Fitzroy supporters.

-Players, building a competitive team, especially against alignments

Could be a problem. However the first two cons listed above would be needed to be dealt with first. Alignments with an AFL club could come later.

 

[fishmonger]

Probably close to a million dollars would be needed. A couple of rich benefactors would be nice and the balance of required funds raised from Fitzroy supporters.

Bert Newton was a big Fitzroy fan who staunchly refused to join the Brisbane Lions bandwagon.
He would have a few million and would have the abililty to generate enormous publicity for the club. Anytime he got his face on TV he could plug it.

Hypothetically, if the Lions did return as a playing club via the VFL, what would happen to the Brisbane Lions ? Would they revert to the Brisbane Bears ?

 

[Roylion]

Hypothetically, if the Lions did return as a playing club via the VFL, what would happen to the Brisbane Lions ? Would they revert to the Brisbane Bears ?

No. Fitzroy Football Club playing in the VFL would have no bearing on the merger agreement which allows Brisbane to use Fitzroy's intellectual property (including identity and tradition) in the AFL. The VFL and AFL are two seperate competitions.

Fitzroy in the VFL and Brisbane Lions in the AFL developing close links could have a number of benefits for both clubs in terms of membership and brand exposure. For example why couldn't a Victorian membership of the Brisbane Lions also double as a VFL membership for the Fitzroy Lions or vice versa? A portion of the membership fee could go to both clubs.

 

[fishmonger]

For example why couldn't a Victorian membership of the Brisbane Lions also double as a VFL membership for the Fitzroy Lions or vice versa? A portion of the membership fee could go to both clubs.

You'd get a lot of people buying Fitzroy VFL memberships to get cheap tickets to Lions games at the Gabba. I know what you are saying though.

But doesn't the AFL own the Lions brand now ? Subject to its intellectual property clauses and its licence ? Doesn't it say something about not being able to use the name or jumper in any other competition to provent say the Port Power from playing in another league as the Port Power ? And how does this work with Geelong FC and Sydney Swans fielding reserves sides in other comps.

 

[Roylion]

You'd get a lot of people buying Fitzroy VFL memberships to get cheap tickets to Lions games at the Gabba. I know what you are saying though.

I'd say that a Victorian membership of the Brisbane Lions doubling as a VFL membership for the Fitzroy Lions would be more likely.

But doesn't the AFL own the Lions brand now ?

Yes, the AFL own the Lion brand, but they don't own the FFC logo or the FFC jumper/guernsey. As the club no longer holds an AFL licence, Fitzroy Football Club is able to sell both independently of the AFL as you can see from the merchandise link at www.fitzroyfc.com.au

None of the merchandise has the 'Fitzroy Lion' emblem on it, as this is owned by the AFL and is currently used by the Brisbane Lions. Should Fitzroy want to use the Lion in any other competition, they would need permission from the AFL and the Brisbane Lions. To wear the Fitzroy jumper in an AFL match, the Brisbane Lions need to have the permission of the Fitzroy Football Club, which is very happily given.

Subject to its intellectual property clauses and its licence ? Doesn't it say something about not being able to use the name or jumper in any other competition to provent say the Port Power from playing in another league as the Port Power ?

The Fitzroy Reds play in the last Fitzroy jumper play in the VAFA. That they use the Fitzroy jumper is with the permission of the Fitzroy Football Club, not the AFL.

And how does this work with Geelong FC and Sydney Swans fielding reserves sides in other comps.

They would need AFL permission. Both currnetly have a licence to play in the AFL and therefore their jumpers, logos etc. are the intellectual proprty of the AFL.

 

[Ron Hitler Barassi]

Rumour has it that the VFL as we currently know it is in real trouble. AFL is seriously considering bringing back the reserves competition and cutting all affiliations with the VFL.

With the good young players wanting to play AFL reserves and older players being lured to the country / suburbs with obscene money, one would have to wonder (and worry) where this would leave the VFL competition.

Anyone see the article in the Age this morning? You heard it here on Big Footy first.

 

[onslaught]

Anyone see the article in the Age this morning? You heard it here on Big Footy first.

Actually a Tasmanian newspaper The Examiner had an article on this mid-way through last year with regards to this topic, and the study undertaken on the AFL and State-level football. It outlined all of the options listed in The Age today.

 

[krisholio14]

any chance of getting south melbourne back while were at it?

 

[Motty]

Sounds like people have forgotten the Coburg-Fitzroy Lions FC fiasco in the mid 1990s ... that nearly brought down Coburg as well.

The VFA/L's terminal decline started when the AFL hijacked the VFA (which, by admission was in disarray in 1995 when it got "taken over") and twelve years on we are close to a similar situation for the old VFA clubs.

The AFL-based clubs are looking at the bottom line more than the worth factor and as a result, the traditionals like Port, Sandy and Willy could end up back on thin ice ... and it's not a long stretch to say that if the AFL goes ahead with "their own VFL" or an Eastern Seaboard FL, the names of Sandringham and Williamstown, etc. would vanish and the stand-alone sides might end up in suburban and country leagues, such as the MPNFL (Frankston), the EFL, the DVFL or the WRFL. No need to worry about the VFA name - in all honesty it went in the mid 90s and this incarnation is realistically a 2nd 18 competition.

Having witnessed the VFA/L for the past 28 years and having moved to Perth, the WAFL structure and professionalism exceeds the VFL and their input and communication with AFL clubs has ensured that the clubs are not under constant pressure to survive.

 

[krisholio14]

Sounds like people have forgotten the Coburg-Fitzroy Lions FC fiasco in the mid 1990s ... that nearly brought down Coburg as well.

The VFA/L's terminal decline started when the AFL hijacked the VFA (which, by admission was in disarray in 1995 when it got "taken over") and twelve years on we are close to a similar situation for the old VFA clubs.

The AFL-based clubs are looking at the bottom line more than the worth factor and as a result, the traditionals like Port, Sandy and Willy could end up back on thin ice ... and it's not a long stretch to say that if the AFL goes ahead with "their own VFL" or an Eastern Seaboard FL, the names of Sandringham and Williamstown, etc. would vanish and the stand-alone sides might end up in suburban and country leagues, such as the MPNFL (Frankston), the EFL, the DVFL or the WRFL. No need to worry about the VFA name - in all honesty it went in the mid 90s and this incarnation is realistically a 2nd 18 competition.

Having witnessed the VFA/L for the past 28 years and having moved to Perth, the WAFL structure and professionalism exceeds the VFL and their input and communication with AFL clubs has ensured that the clubs are not under constant pressure to survive.

my ideal scenario would be for that breakaway melbourne suburban league to eventuate. the one a few local clubs were talking about last year. then the remaining former VFA clubs could get a look in there.

my VFA side, the mighty Oaks, bit the dust, along with teams like prahran, northcote and camberwell (former bastions of the VFA). it would be nice to see the remaining half dozen find a way to survive.

 

[MegaA]

As Bobby Borough said, just comes down to better marketing, nothing wrong with the product nobody hears or knows about it. You can have the worlds best product but if it isnt marketed properly people wont know about it.

Perhaps one alteration is needed, get rid of that 6 players under 22 rule, a rule that compromises the standard of the competition and also hurts the stand alone clubs chances and perhaps allow stand alone clubs to have 2 marquee players each. Other than that nothing wrong with the competition, good football at a affordable price with full strength beer and the ability to walk onto the ground and listen to the coaches which gives it a great inclusive feel betweeb fan and club.

 

[HedgeFund]

As Bobby Borough said, just comes down to better marketing, nothing wrong with the product nobody hears or knows about it. You can have the worlds best product but if it isnt marketed properly people wont know about it.

Perhaps one alteration is needed, get rid of that 6 players under 22 rule, a rule that compromises the standard of the competition and also hurts the stand alone clubs chances and perhaps allow stand alone clubs to have 2 marquee players each. Other than that nothing wrong with the competition, good football at a affordable price with full strength beer and the ability to walk onto the ground and listen to the coaches which gives it a great inclusive feel betweeb fan and club.

Can I just say that for you to post this to reply to a thread after it’s been dormant for nearly 15 years is absolutely magnificent.