List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 3

[TigerTime88]

Caddy is off to North or wants to get to North. Knows he isn’t a wingman.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Caddy is off to North or wants to get to North. Knows he isn’t a wingman.

He is only 28 if he waits another 3 years he would get a midfield role at Geelong

 

[fargothegreat]

Caddy is off to North or wants to get to North. Knows he isn’t a wingman.

Let him go imo. Too slow for our game style.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Well, we could of. It just would have meant salary dumping Caddy & K-Mac - maybe trading CCj for that first rounder GWS offered us etc - or maybe even just having a harsh conversation with Houli and not re-signing him for 1 more year where ultimately it was clearly 1 year too many.

Effectively due to our large amount of rookies, we could have moved on a few of our role players, upgraded a few of our rookies onto relatively modest senior contracts & continued to hold the trade hand we have gone into this season to re-stock on top end new talent. Our list has a noticeable hole in it around that 20-24 range, at least in the top end.

When opportunity knocks & you can obtain one of the best young talents in the league for a 2nd rounder due to another clubs mis-management, you be bold & make sh*t happen. We could do with 22 year old with his talents in our ranks right now, especially with our lack of quality draft picks due to our success. I think this season is the proof that the club needed to freshen up the list a bit more over the past 2 years than they did. Its an easy trap to fall in when you are being successful, but its a trap none the less.

What size contract would Caddy be on do you reckon?

That might have been the case when we were negotiating Cotchins, Dusty, Jack, Edwards, Presita, Lamberts, Lynches last contracts after 2017 - but ultimately all of these guys are locked in & on the other side of the hill when it comes to their next contract. From here on in, their position of power is gone

Outside of Bolton, who else do we have on our list that would command a top end contract now? Maybe Balta? Baker, Short, Broad, Soldo, Pickett, Aarts, RCD, Rioli, KL-Mac Castagna, Graham, even Toby .... I really cant see any situation moving forward where we find outselves in a bidding war over any new contracts & losing players as we cannot afford to pay them a reasonable fair income. If another team comes knocking offering them hella overs, then you part ways like we did with Brandon Ellis

Ultimately as well, we are not the club "offering" the contract, we are inheriting it to get the team better quality players to improve and lengthen the teams window of success. If players are dictating the list management based on fear & jealousy, that is a very very bad place to be. This is what happened at Carlton back in the day & they found themselves with a bunch of overpaid old dudes with zero young talent to threaten them. You effectively keep yourself to ransom to your past at the cost of your future. By failing to have any elite talent in that 25 and under age group - outside of Bolton we have no one that will demand top dollar. And by having that situation, we have increased Boltons market value to US. Quite simply, we cannot afford to lose Bolton over money - if we keep him, it will be for $700-800k a season - I don't see him accepting any less than that.

The best way to keep salaries down is by having a bright, successful future. To have that you need young talent, so the situation you describe is not as black & white as it appears. Keeping a dynasty alive is very very hard work - this is why despite our hate for them, Geelong deserve a lot of respect for how they have remained relevant for a decade and a half now. Its a logistical masterpiece to be honest

Where are they heading this year mate?

Caddy played 2 or 3 games? K-Mac is a free agent and to be honest, not much chop. In hindsight of knowing what we know at 2021, would you trade 1 more year of Houli, K-Mac & Caddy for Stephenson & 2 young draft picks for another 3 or 4 years, locked in? We only took 2 picks in last years draft. There is a very real chance that all 3 players will be gone at the end of this year . If I had a DeLorean, I would most definitely trade the 3 to take on Stephenson's contract as more than likely all 3 will have no roll in our next finals run, let alone our next flag. They were, dare i say - overrated going in 2021. There is no way we would sign Caddy to his current contract knowing what we know now & I would not be entertaining any level of a bidding war on K-Mac. Set the price & leave it up to them to decide - which was exactly what we did to Brando who was a FAR better player, club man etc

How is it different to when we lost Butler and Ellis the year before also? We did that, won another flag & the sky didn't fall in.

The team is the only constant - the players come and go. It's only the club which remains. Never fall in love with your fringe and role players, they are easily replaced when you have exceptional team structures.

The irony is, people are talking about Cerra this year and his contract & trade cost will be far higher than Stephensons. Is Cerra a far better prospect than Stephenson? I don't think so - even with their contracts being equal (which they wont be, cerra will be the higher paid) I would take Stephenson at a cost of pick 27 over Cerra at a cost of 12 & 27 every day of the week. With the first rounder you still get a quality young prospect & they are on a market contract which is very affordable to our cap.

This strategy is the key to successful rebuilds in the NBA. Getting young talent via the draft is only part of the strategy, its actually the Cap space flexibility that is created by the rookie contracts allows the teams to rebuild, re-tool etc. Stephenson + 2 1st year players would be the same cap space as Houli, K-Mac & Caddy this year. Out of those 2 packages - you not only get the most talented player in Stephenson, but you get 2 young prospects who are cheap & could be anything. If only 1 of them ends up being a equal or better player than Caddy or K-Mac, then your now & your future is both far brighter

Whats your point? This is literally what every club does. They take calculated risk. These are the small gains & losses that make or break your teams success. The margins are very small. But much like the risk we took in 2016 in trading Lids & bringing in Prestia, Toby & Caddy - the only thing which dictates if the move was a success or a failure, is the results we got in hindsight. Those 3 moves could have been total stinkers, at the time i was not overly enthused about them. I feared Prestia could have been an injury prone talent that became an albatross contract on our books - I didn't love the idea of trading our 1st rounder after years of seeing us botch our growth with taking short-cuts - Caddy i thought was a worthwhile risk & in hindsight was only a marginal success outside of his 2017-18 season & no one really foresaw the talent we were getting with Toby, he seemed a decent move but we had no idea we were getting a total beast.

Its the difference between being a genius or a shmuck. But its why you always analyse the moves you could have made as well as the ones you did. In the same hindsight we know that the 2016 moves were great for our club, we use the same hindsight to realise that we missed opportunities to make ourselves better along the way. These are not individually hangable offences, just missed opportunities that every club make. But if you miss on too many, you are f’ed

In Hindsight.
We should've paid Raines/Cloke & Woods what they were worth.
Shouldn't have gone after the Pies in retaliation.
Should've kept John Northey.
Should've spent more on the FD therefore not entirely making the 04 draft a complete whitewash outside of Lids.
Should've given every player Gastro stop before the 18 prelim.

What a wonderful thing.

 

[Bojangles17]

Caddy is off to North or wants to get to North. Knows he isn’t a wingman.

Cads would be A great selection for an emerging team, if little else, he has standards that only a dual premiership player would know , if 7-8 clubs don’t think they could find a spot for him , then they’re where they are for a reason

 

[YeOldTiger]

Three way deal in the works involving Cerra, Petrevski-Seton and Lipinski ?

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Three way deal in the works involving Cerra, Petrevski-Seton and Lipinski ?

View attachment 1186149

If Freo agree to this then they deserve to continue to live in the shadows of West Coast for another decade.

 

[Engimal v3]

Caddy is off to North or wants to get to North. Knows he isn’t a wingman.

Didn't North want him originally when he left Geelong? Seems a bit out of our age profile now

 

[tiger_tough]

Didn't North want him originally when he left Geelong? Seems a bit out of our age profile now

Even if you got him for free? I reckon it'd be a token pick if north picked up his contract

 

[Toadvine]

I hope the club is asking the question of Jordan Clark

6

Jordan Clark

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.2

3star

K

10.4

4star

HB

1.8

2star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.4

4star

. Would be a great replacement for Houli and is constantly played out of position at Geelong.

 

[Bojangles17]

Three way deal in the works involving Cerra, Petrevski-Seton and Lipinski ?

View attachment 1186149

If Freo were more interested in sps than Macca then little wonder they are what they are ,,,,he’s ordinary and can’t get a game for a side that hasnt seen finals in years compared to a dual premiership player

 

[Bojangles17]

I hope the club is asking the question of Jordan Clark. Would be a great replacement for Houli and is constantly played out of position at Geelong.

Reckon there will be a fair queue for him, surprises me he hasn’t firmed a spot looks to have the tools

 

[guruisatiger]

If Freo were more interested in sps than Macca then little wonder they are what they are ,,,,he’s ordinary and can’t get a game for a side that hasnt seen finals in years compared to a dual premiership player

How does the 3 way trade work?

 

[Bojangles17]

Didn't North want him originally when he left Geelong? Seems a bit out of our age profile now

Young sides will always benefit from adding qty experience , GWS proved that when they quickly put space between themselves and GC

 

[guruisatiger]

I hope the club is asking the question of Jordan Clark. Would be a great replacement for Houli and is constantly played out of position at Geelong.

Could we give Geelong back there first round pick for Clark and narkle?? Is that a fair trade

 

[Bojangles17]

How does the 3 way trade work?

I wasnt assuming cerra was locked on Carlton , is that the case now ?

 

[guruisatiger]

I wasnt assuming cerra was locked on Carlton , is that the case now ?

Don't ,know if cerra is locked on Carlton,,,,,,,i do know Carlton have been into him big time and could do a fair trade for him

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Reckon there will be a fair queue for him, surprises me he hasn’t firmed a spot looks to have the tools

Surely something is amiss about the guy?
I mean he even can't get a game ahead of Narkle.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Don't ,know if cerra is locked on Carlton,,,,,,,i do know Carlton have been into him big time and could do a fair trade for him

They can have Cerra.
Walsh is out of contract next year.
Cotch & Jack retiring.
Everybody wants to play with Dusty.Not against.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

What's your point? This is literally what every club does. They take a calculated risk. These are the small gains & losses that make or break your teams success. The margins are very small. But much like the risk we took in 2016 in trading Lids & bringing in Prestia, Toby & Caddy - the only thing which dictates if the move was a success or a failure, is the results we got in hindsight. Those 3 moves could have been total stinkers, at the time i was not overly enthused about them. I feared Prestia could have been an injury prone talent that became an albatross contract on our books - I didn't love the idea of trading our 1st rounder after years of seeing us botch our growth with taking short-cuts - Caddy i thought was a worthwhile risk & in hindsight was only a marginal success outside of his 2017-18 season & no one really foresaw the talent we were getting with Toby, he seemed a decent move but we had no idea we were getting a total beast.

Its the difference between being a genius or a shmuck. But its why you always analyse the moves you could have made as well as the ones you did. In the same hindsight we know that the 2016 moves were great for our club, we use the same hindsight to realise that we missed opportunities to make ourselves better along the way. These are not individually hangable offences, just missed opportunities that every club make. But if you miss on too many, you are f’ed

A club with a very tight salary cap cannot afford to splurge the reported $600K on just potential. It may mean you drop loyal servants that are very much loved by others around them. Players understand the cutthroat nature of footy and that their mates may get cut off a list if they don't perform. However, they don't like their mates being cut by another youngster who is already on far more money than them and has accomplished nothing. I've worked in team environments for 30 years. An unhappy team never performs well. You create an unhappy team with moves like the one you have presented. How can you make comments like these? Have you just completely forgotten what has won us 3 out of the last 4 premierships? We definitely didn't have, man for man, the best list on the park. What we had is the best team on the park.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Surely something is amiss about the guy?
I mean he even can't get a game ahead of Narkle.

Not really a like for like, Narkle is a mid/forward and Clarke is a defender
Cats currently have probably the best back 6 in the comp so it’s hard for someone like Clarke to break in

 

[roacheee]

We wouldn’t have been able to assume his 550k salary that’s why nm got him on the cheap

absorb

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Not really a like for like, Narkle is a mid/forward and Clarke is a defender
Cats currently have probably the best back 6 in the comp so it’s hard for someone like Clarke to break in

We've played with 7 though.(Vlas/Grimes/Broad/Astbury/Balta/Houli/Short).

 

[Muddiemoose]

We've played with 7 though.(Vlas/Grimes/Broad/Astbury/Balta/Houli/Short).

That’s us, just because we do it dosent mean the cats do
All depends on what the coaches want out of team balance at the selection table and they have other players from around the ground that can chop out like Bews and Henry

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

That’s us, just because we do it dosent mean the cats do
All depends on what the coaches want out of team balance at the selection table and they have other players from around the ground that can chop out like Bews and Henry

Dunno.Somethings gone wrong with this kid after his 1st year.