Richmond - time for a rebuild?

[Grrr]

True. Same with the dockers trading in Shai Bolton.

I don't mind him. I have no Doubt what he brings to the dockers team. It's what we traded picks wise is what concerned me

Yes it is true that you gave out a fair bit. But Bolton and Rioli are proven A graders who still have plenty of time left, especially Bolton.

Fremantle are knocking on the door of a Premiership, Bolton could be a big factor amongst others that take you the next step. 2016 we were rock bottom, 2017 Premiers, sometimes it just takes a couple of factors to make that jump. Bolton has more x-factor than probably any player in the league, so you have to pay extra sometimes.

 

[Dr Tigris]

True. Same with the dockers trading in Shai Bolton.

I don't mind him. I have no Doubt what he brings to the dockers team. It's what we traded picks wise is what concerned me

What was traded for was the edge to win a premiership. That is worth a lot. Bolton can bring an edge that will help win the title. Whether that happens I don't know. But Shai is the type who works best in a winning team. Allow him the opportunity to attack and watch out.

I like that Freo is willing to have a red hot crack to win the title with the team they have.

Similalry with Rioli to GC, but less so. Rioli will energise the GC ball movement and provide leadership. But he isn't a missing piece in teh same way Shai is. Although price was less as well.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yes it is true that you gave out a fair bit. But Bolton and Rioli are proven A graders who still have plenty of time left, especially Bolton.

Fremantle are knocking on the door of a Premiership, Bolton could be a big factor amongst others that take you the next step. 2016 we were rock bottom, 2017 Premiers, sometimes it just takes a couple of factors to make that jump. Bolton has more x-factor than probably any player in the league, so you have to pay extra sometimes.

First off.... I won't deny Bolton is a good player. I am worried how much we traded for him (I already told you that).

I have said his before..... Geelong's 2000 to 2009 period is similar to tigers 2010 to 2019 period.

Richmond were not rock bottom in 2016. They were 13th and just had an "off" year or bad year. Tigers board did some soul searching in the off season. But they knew the playing squad had upside.

Tigers traded some players in the off season.

We all know what happened in 2017 , they ended a flag drought beating a South Australian side In the crows.

Look at Geelong as well. In 2006, they had an off year. Geelong board had to do some things. Geelongs 2006 had upside.

Then we all know what the cats did in 2007. Ended a 44 year drought in beating a South Australian side in the grand final in Port Adelaide.

I am more worried if dockers still can't make finals in 2025 and 2026 and 2027. Because 2023 and 2024 are wasted years.

 

[Freomaniac]

What was traded for was the edge to win a premiership. That is worth a lot. Bolton can bring an edge that will help win the title. Whether that happens I don't know. But Shai is the type who works best in a winning team. Allow him the opportunity to attack and watch out.

I like that Freo is willing to have a red hot crack to win the title with the team they have.

Similalry with Rioli to GC, but less so. Rioli will energise the GC ball movement and provide leadership. But he isn't a missing piece in teh same way Shai is. Although price was less as well.

And that is what worries me. Shai Bolton is good but that doesn't mean freo will win the flag under Bolton as a player.

I have seen various heavy trades Freo have done and have seen it end up badly. Yes I am referring to the Jesse Hogan trade to freo

 

[GhostofJimJess]

First off.... I won't deny Bolton is a good player. I am worried how much we traded for him (I already told you that).

Again, that thinking is based on your perception that what you've bought is less than what you could've got. It's not.

Don't search for reasons not to love Shai, just enjoy him. He's incredible.

And if we weren't coming off a glorious dynasty at Tigerland I would've been totally gutted we lost him.

 

[Arr0w]

First off.... I won't deny Bolton is a good player. I am worried how much we traded for him (I already told you that).

I have said his before..... Geelong's 2000 to 2009 period is similar to tigers 2010 to 2019 period.

Richmond were not rock bottom in 2016. They were 13th and just had an "off" year or bad year. Tigers board did some soul searching in the off season. But they knew the playing squad had upside.

Tigers traded some players in the off season.

We all know what happened in 2017 , they ended a flag drought beating a South Australian side In the crows.

Look at Geelong as well. In 2006, they had an off year. Geelong board had to do some things. Geelongs 2006 had upside.

Then we all know what the cats did in 2007. Ended a 44 year drought in beating a South Australian side in the grand final in Port Adelaide.

I am more worried if dockers still can't make finals in 2025 and 2026 and 2027. Because 2023 and 2024 are wasted years.

You have a young list, if Bolton stays healthy, there is no downside in what you paid to get him, he is a game changer

Look at it this way, in overall trade value, you gave up pick 4, you received pick 5 for Schultz

 

[Freomaniac]

You have a young list, if Bolton stays healthy, there is no downside in what you paid to get him, he is a game changer

Look at it this way, in overall trade value, you gave up pick 4, you received pick 5 for Schultz

Doesn't mean squat....

It's about what happens for the next 5 or 6 years when Shai Bolton is on freos playing list.

Dockers window of finals is from 2025 to 2029 or even to 2030


Key word I didn't say Premiership window, I said finals window

 

[Freomaniac]

Again, that thinking is based on your perception that what you've bought is less than what you could've got. It's not.

Don't search for reasons not to love Shai, just enjoy him. He's incredible.

And if we weren't coming off a glorious dynasty at Tigerland I would've been totally gutted we lost him.

Exactly. Your side won the 2017, 2019 and 2020 flags so that softens the blow of losing Shai Bolton

 

[Arr0w]

Doesn't mean squat....

It's about what happens for the next 5 or 6 years when Shai Bolton is on freos playing list.

Dockers window of finals is from 2025 to 2029 or even to 2030


Key word I didn't say Premiership window, I said finals window

So Bolton fits nicely in that window

 

[GC2015]

Rioli a B grader, you have no idea what you have just picked up. He is a gun and easily one of the best half backs in the league. You'll be eating your words this season I would think.

You're an excellent poster, and clearly very savvy even about teams other than your own.

But you're in for a very pleasant surprise as a Suns fan if you think Dan Rioli is only a B-grader. He's a triple-premiership and B&F winning indigenous leader of men who is currently at the top of his game.

Dimma knows this better than anyone.

Fair enough. You guys would know better than I having watched him up close for many years.

I hope he's an A grader for us. I really do.

But it is not their 'high end' picks that have allowed them to get into the eight. It is mostly a core of players that Hawthorn have got outside of the first round. Their entire B&F top 15 are players they got outside of the first round beside Weddle, who was pick 18. Watson is their only 'high end'/top 5 draft pick. Mackenzie the only other top 10 pick in the best 22. I think Hawthorn is a perfect example that you don't need to 'bottom out' to build a very strong side.
If some of the young players at Essendon can develop such as Durham, Caddy, Kako, Reid, Tsatas, Roberts etc. and we nail our two firsts this year, we are getting closer to the required talent.

That's why I pointed out that Hawthorn have done a really good job of trading in B graders in their prime like Impey, Amon, Ginnivan etc and they'll make the next step into the top 4 when those young high end draft picks are ready to step up to become A graders. They should be able to trade in a potential future A grader as well now that players around the league know that they're finals contenders again. Give it a few years and B graders like Impey, Amon and Ginnivan shouldn't be topping their B&F count anymore.

I'd agree with that assessment of the Bombers. Most of those Essendon players you've listed are first round picks so if they can all collectively step up and Essendon make the most of what should be two top 10 picks this year, then spending time towards the bottom of the ladder over the next few years may not be as necessary. Although I doubt they're going to have that many players stepping up at the same time. I'd be looking to secure at least one top 5 pick over the next 2-3 years if I was Essendon.

 

[Grrr]

First off.... I won't deny Bolton is a good player. I am worried how much we traded for him (I already told you that).

I have said his before..... Geelong's 2000 to 2009 period is similar to tigers 2010 to 2019 period.

Richmond were not rock bottom in 2016. They were 13th and just had an "off" year or bad year. Tigers board did some soul searching in the off season. But they knew the playing squad had upside.

Tigers traded some players in the off season.

We all know what happened in 2017 , they ended a flag drought beating a South Australian side In the crows.

Look at Geelong as well. In 2006, they had an off year. Geelong board had to do some things. Geelongs 2006 had upside.

Then we all know what the cats did in 2007. Ended a 44 year drought in beating a South Australian side in the grand final in Port Adelaide.

I am more worried if dockers still can't make finals in 2025 and 2026 and 2027. Because 2023 and 2024 are wasted years.

By rock bottom I meant imploding. Lost the last game of the season by 113pts, coach a monty to get sacked, media knives were out massively, consecutive finals meant nothing etc.

You have to pay top dollar for top players, that is just the way it goes. When we paid pick 6 for Prestia the Richmond board were up in arms, I thought it fair.

We had pick 6 so that is what we had to give. If you had pick 4 for example, you would have handed that over, as it was 10, 11 and 18 with 14 back may have been over, but we had the upper hand and he is a gun in his prime.

Prestia was well worth it in the long run and no reason why Bolton couldn't be the missing piece to a flag, it's a gamble but so are draft picks. For all you know, you put three years into a couple of interstate kids before they want to go home, not unusual.

 

[Dr Tigris]

And that is what worries me. Shai Bolton is good but that doesn't mean freo will win the flag under Bolton as a player.

I have seen various heavy trades Freo have done and have seen it end up badly. Yes I am referring to the Jesse Hogan trade to freo

I hear that. I reckon Freo should have gone further last year.

What Shai brings is massive X factor and the ability to create chaos in the opposition. He is also a guy who adds an attacking dimension very few can.

But, the big thing with Shai to me is that, he is a cream on top kind of player. He doesn't do the hard grunt work, or play that key role. Once the team can win the ball and move it forward well, and you have a good spine, Shai is a guy who can take advantage of that in a way very few can. That means, Shai can take a very good team and give it a much sharper edge - say an extra 2 or 3 goals.

Given that i reckon Freo should have been an absolute contender in 2024 and could easily have won it all, that extra edge could tip them over. Nothing is given. But personally I reckon Shai is exactly what freo need right now.

 

[Freomaniac]

By rock bottom I meant imploding. Lost the last game of the season by 113pts, coach a monty to get sacked, media knives were out massively, consecutive finals meant nothing etc.

You have to pay top dollar for top players, that is just the way it goes. When we paid pick 6 for Prestia the Richmond board were up in arms, I thought it fair.

We had pick 6 so that is what we had to give. If you had pick 4 for example, you would have handed that over, as it was 10, 11 and 18 with 14 back may have been over, but we had the upper hand and he is a gun in his prime.

Prestia was well worth it in the long run and no reason why Bolton couldn't be the missing piece to a flag, it's a gamble but so are draft picks. For all you know, you put three years into a couple of interstate kids before they want to go home, not unusual.

On one hand , teams have to play top dollars on certain players.

On the other hand dockers get bagged out for paying 2 ruckman in Sean Darcy and Luke Jackson lots of money.

 

[tiger_tough]

On one hand , teams have to play top dollars on certain players.

On the other hand dockers get bagged out for paying 2 ruckman in Sean Darcy and Luke Jackson lots of money.

I think that's more due to the fact that nearly all of the last 10 premiership sides at least have had B grade at best ruckman so it's debatable if it's worth paying huge $ for one ruck, let alone 2.

 

[Grrr]

On one hand , teams have to play top dollars on certain players.

On the other hand dockers get bagged out for paying 2 ruckman in Sean Darcy and Luke Jackson lots of money.

Not me, a player like Jackson is worth the punt. At the least he is a very good player, at best he could be a match winner. You need these mercurial players to make a great side. Sure you can win without them, but without Martin Richmond do not win those 3 flags.

You need the grunt and the honest A-B grade players to get to the top 4, but players like Bolton and Jackson are the x-factor that might snag the Premierships, which are hard to come by.

 

[Mr.X]

Its started and has got off to a solid start.

Lots of quality picks that will mature together, and a well settled game plan

They could surprise a few sides very soon

 

[BigFrizz36]

Its started and has got off to a solid start.

Lots of quality picks that will mature together, and a well settled game plan

They could surprise a few sides very soon

They are down 115 - 34. Some good effort early but the wheels are quickly falling off.

Lynch and Balta will make some difference but a long, long winter is looming.

 

[branedotorg]

They are down 115 - 34. Some good effort early but the wheels are quickly falling off.

Lynch and Balta will make some difference but a long, long winter is looming.

It's expected and it'll be a long few years but they've done well for the long term imo

 

[EagleMan87]

The question now is: can they get to two wins again this year?

 

[Shueygod]

The question now is: can they get to two wins again this year?

No, about three of their players gets a game in the eagles 22 which is widely considered as the second worst in the league.

 

[Kipz]

Cheers for the footballing throw downs Richmond.

Nah you'll be right.. Especially once you get Dusty, Bolton, Baker etc back

 

[Feraligatr]

Bottom out, start again. Is what it is.

Losing all our experience in 2 years is a killer but eh, just gotta get on with it.

It's just part of the game. But hopefully we're in a lot better position than we where in in the 90s/2000s.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

They are down 115 - 34. Some good effort early but the wheels are quickly falling off.

Lynch and Balta will make some difference but a long, long winter is looming.

Yep, gonna be a tough year.

Won the clearances tonight but just handed the ball over repeatedly. Not sure if you can fix that in the short term, even allowing for February shakiness.

Also just won the Inside-50's, but may as well have been kicking it against a wall.

Long, long season ahead.

 

[tiger_tough]

No, about three of their players gets a game in the eagles 22 which is widely considered as the second worst in the league.

LOL

I love how overly confident Eagles fans are for absolutely no reason.

 

[tiger_tough]

Cheers for the footballing throw downs Richmond.

Nah you'll be right.. Especially once you get Dusty, Bolton, Baker etc back