January 26th 2025

[Skeppersap]

Well, because of intolerance of other people's opinion, this thread has gone way off topic.

If only there was a way of undertaking discussion without immediately labelling people you don't agree with as racist!!!

Back on Australia Day.....i don't care, just do whatever the majority of the population vote for in a plebiscite!!! Easy solution.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yes, but the point of my post, which you have edited out, was the overly represented narrative of dichotomy for political purposes.

Well when the disparity is that great, I don’t agree it’s overly represented at all.

By any of a dozen measures of quality of life, Indigenous Australians as a group are significantly disadvantaged.

(Indigenous Australians would love to hear more good news stories about themselves too, you know.)

 

[Cmarsh]

There is a new all Aboriginal panel discussion show called "hear me out" available on abc iview. I have just seen the discussion on the stance on Australia day. There is a diversity of views. The change the date advocates unfortunately did not volunteer a suggestion of what to change the date to. Worth a watch.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Every system in the world favours wealth over poverty.

And what do you mean by Aboriginal people being actively excluded from wealth?
30 years ago footballers such as Long, Wanganeen, Matera were signing lucrative contracts.

I am not even sure how to respond to this.

 

[South of the Yarra]

You said Aboriginal people were excluded from wealth just 30 years ago.

How would that even be possible?

Maybe walk a day as an Aboriginal

 

[South of the Yarra]

It gets dileberately political when people oversimplify the situation into this "Aboriginal people disadvantaged, white people advantaged" dichotomy.

In my personal life, I know numerous Aboriginal people who are quite well off and doing well both financially and in their careers. But this is not a narrative you hear too often and some only really want to talk about the disadvantage.

Does doing well financially and in careers mean you are doing well? I have had financial and career success but that does that mean I don't carry the scars, torment and pain of my upbringing. My kids carry the pain of my pain, and they are all doing brilliantly career wise. Intergenerational trauma is real. We need to heal that pain, or the gap will get bigger.

 

[schneebly111]

There is a new all Aboriginal panel discussion show called "hear me out" available on abc iview. I have just seen the discussion on the stance on Australia day. There is a diversity of views. The change the date advocates unfortunately did not volunteer a suggestion of what to change the date to. Worth a watch.

Do we even need a national day, or one that's celebrated? England doesn't have an official national day, St George's Day but it's barely celebrated and not a public holiday. German Unity Day on Oct 3 is an official day but beyond some official celebrations isn't widely observed by the average person on the street. Denmark doesn't have a national day. New Zealand's national day is a reflection of Maori culture but not as nationalist as some would like Australia day to be. Japan's national day is deliberately muted.

Some countries obviously make a big hoop-la. July 4th in America, St Paddy's Day in Ireland, the Dutch get decked out in Orange on their national day. But not all.

Most nations seem to observe a national day as a government ceremony and a fly past of fighter jets with coloured smoke and then it's up to the average person if they deck themselves out in flag gear like an American or a Dutchman and harass minorities on the street. For a lot of nations it is nothing more than a normal public holiday.

 

[Cmarsh]

Does doing well financially and in careers mean you are doing well? I have had financial and career success but that does that mean I don't carry the scars, torment and pain of my upbringing. My kids carry the pain of my pain, and they are all doing brilliantly career wise. Intergenerational trauma is real. We need to heal that pain, or the gap will get bigger.

My comment was made in the discussion of Aboriginal and non Aboriginal economic advantage/disdvantage.

 

[Cmarsh]

Do we even need a national day, or one that's celebrated? England doesn't have an official national day, St George's Day but it's barely celebrated and not a public holiday. German Unity Day on Oct 3 is an official day but beyond some official celebrations isn't widely observed by the average person on the street. Denmark doesn't have a national day. New Zealand's national day is a reflection of Maori culture but not as nationalist as some would like Australia day to be. Japan's national day is deliberately muted.

Some countries obviously make a big hoop-la. July 4th in America, St Paddy's Day in Ireland, the Dutch get decked out in Orange on their national day. But not all.

Most nations seem to observe a national day as a government ceremony and a fly past of fighter jets with coloured smoke and then it's up to the average person if they deck themselves out in flag gear like an American or a Dutchman and harass minorities on the street. For a lot of nations it is nothing more than a normal public holiday.

As I have said numerous times in this thread, my prediction is that into the future the issue of what to change the date to will continue to be a prominent sticking point of any push for potential date change.

 

[Gough]

Reserve powers are vested in the monarch. In most cases they are exercised by the Governor-General. But they are not invested in the office of Governor-General.

The checks and balances on both the Sovereign and the office of the Governor-General works very well.

The whole point of reserve powers vested in the monarch and his/her representatives is that those reserve powers mostly operate in the background and operate as an incentive to appropriate behaviour by politicians (who as Ministers are 'responsible advisers') in delivering a responsible government. They're not a royal or vice-regal veto that can be exercised at will, as some have implied. Responsible advisers are those ministers who hold the confidence of the lower House of the Parliament and who are responsible to the people through the Parliament for the advice that they give to the monarch.

If a Minister (including the Prime Minister) loses the confidence of the lower House of Parliament, then the monarch / governor-general does not have to follow their formal advice in exercising their powers.

So our politicians have to behave themselves lest they get a ticking off from the King of the UK.

 

[schneebly111]

As I have said numerous times in this thread, my prediction is that into the future the issue of what to change the date to will continue to be a prominent sticking point of any push for potential date change.

So there'll always be a push away from the 26th of January then? As with any controversy most people in the middle stay out of it. I can say in Perth since the demise of the Skyworks the observation given to the day has dropped to almost zero. Now the NYE Fireworks here are the new display everyone flocks to.

If the day doesn't change then I guess developing into something like German Unity Day where no one gives a sh*t about flag waving is a good compromise. Literally just a day where they hand out citizen of the year awards.

Btw with less than a week has anyone heard of anyone in their family, friend groups or workplaces planning patriotic events on the day?

 

[schneebly111]

There is a new all Aboriginal panel discussion show called "hear me out" available on abc iview. I have just seen the discussion on the stance on Australia day. There is a diversity of views. The change the date advocates unfortunately did not volunteer a suggestion of what to change the date to. Worth a watch.

Here's a link.

Hear Me Out: Australia Day

A new ABC Indigenous original format, Hear Me Out puts Indigenous people front and centre on topics that affect them. The inaugural episode will tackle the often-contentious discussion surrounding Australia Day.

iview.abc.net.au

Tbh I'd heard most of the arguments before, and the arguments of the two people wanting to keep the date were pretty unconvincing. "Nah lets just keep it" essentially.

With utmost respect for Indigenous people I also don't think enough weight is given to the very real non-Indigenous reasons to get rid of the date. Like it's a day to celebrate the achievements of British people not Australians, it is about NSW not Australia, we should have a proper independence day, it never was widely celebrated until 1994 etc.

Obviously Indigenous people who believe that is the day a lot of hurt started for their people should be the primary reason for change, but as a non-Indigenous Australian I also think I have valid points to change.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Well, because of intolerance of other people's opinion, this thread has gone way off topic.

If only there was a way of undertaking discussion without immediately labelling people you don't agree with as racist!!!

Back on Australia Day.....i don't care, just do whatever the majority of the population vote for in a plebiscite!!! Easy solution.

You know you are, don't be a pussy here and beg for a timeout because you can't reply. Just own it. You'll feel better.

 

[Roylion]

So our politicians have to behave themselves lest they get a ticking off from the King of the UK.

Where did I say that? If you're going to misrepresent what I said, don't bother.

 

[Skeppersap]

You know you are, don't be a pussy here and beg for a timeout because you can't reply. Just own it. You'll feel better.

I don't need a time out, and I am very comfortable in my beliefs that everyone should be considered equal and treated equal, regardless of ethnicity or skin colour. Wish more around here felt the same.

And I merely tried to get the conversation back into Australia Day, because the thread is about..... Wait for it..... Australia Day.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

I don't need a time out, and I am very comfortable in my beliefs that everyone should be considered equal and treated equal, regardless of ethnicity or skin colour. Wish more around here felt the same.

And I merely tried to get the conversation back into Australia Day, because the thread is about..... Wait for it..... Australia Day.

Nah, you were avoiding replying to posts by making a wimp out post. Just own it, nobody likes a coward.

 

[Skeppersap]

Nah, you were avoiding replying to posts by making a wimp out post. Just own it, nobody likes a coward.

Nah.....i wasn't.....

 

[Gough]

Where did I say that? If you're going to misrepresent what I said, don't bother.

Seems to be a bit of a vibe for your argument though. As long as our pollies behave themselves mother England will let us go.

 

[Roylion]

Seems to be a bit of a vibe for your argument though. As long as our pollies behave themselves mother England will let us go.

"A bit of a vibe" is it now. I've said / implied nothing of the sort. You're deliberately misrepresenting what I said. Go back and read what I said carefully.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Nah.....i wasn't.....

Got to be my imagination or ability to click to one page back. I am sure it's one of those two things, almost impossible to tell which one it is though.

 

[Gough]

"A bit of a vibe" is it now. I've said / implied nothing of the sort. You're deliberately misrepresenting what I said. Go back and read what I said carefully.

is that those reserve powers mostly operate in the background and operate as an incentive to appropriate behaviour by politicians

Your words. Why should the King of the UK be an incentive to our MP's behaving well and let's face it if that's his desire he's failing miserably at it. Do you not think can't we find a local to inspire this better behaviour?

 

[Cmarsh]

Your words. Why should the King of the UK be an incentive to our MP's behaving well and let's face it if that's his desire he's failing miserably at it. Do you not think can't we find a local to inspire this better behaviour?

Personally I think the local head of state argument for a Republic is a bit of a fizzer. It at the end of the day would just be another pollie, or if not a pollie, a person such as a former Australian of the year that may or may not be popularly elected but would have only a ceremonial role. Not alot to get excited about.
Oh and you can only imagine the amount of opposition there would be to the cost of holding another seperate election to appoint someone only to be in a ceremonial role.

 

[Roylion]

Your words. Why should the King of the UK be an incentive to our MP's behaving well

Once again. You've misrepresented what I've said. The reserve powers vested in the office of the monarch of Australia, but exercised by the Governor-General, encourage responsible government as per the Constitution of Australia. Violations of the Constitution by politicians for example means that there are legal means to remove said politicians.

It doesn't involve "a ticking off from the King of the UK" (your words). That's you misrepresenting what I said. It also doesn't mean "As long as our pollies behave themselves mother England will let us go". (your words again) That's another complete misrepresentation by you of what I said.

and let's face it if that's his desire he's failing miserably at it.

Failing miserably at what? Poor behaviour by Australian politicians? If that's what you're referring to, you've either completely misunderstood what I'm saying or once again you're deliberately trying to misrepresent what I said.

Do you not think can't we find a local to inspire this better behaviour?

The Australian governor-general exercises the reserve powers and other constitutional powers such as "royal assent" in Australia. They do so on the formal advice of their responsible Australian ministers. As I clearly said twice.

 

[Gough]

Once again. You've misrepresented what I've said. The reserve powers vested in the office of the monarch of of Australia, but exercised by the Governor-General, encourage responsible government as per the Constitution of Australia. Violations of the Constitution by politicians for example means that there are legal means to remove said politicians.

It doesn't involve "a ticking off from the King of the UK" (your words). That's you misrepresenting what I said. It also doesn't mean "As long as our pollies behave themselves mother England will let us go". (your words again) That's another complete misrepresentation by you of what I said.



Failing miserably at what?


The Australian governor-general exercises the reserve powers and other constitutional powers such as "royal assent" in Australia. They do so on the formal advice of their responsible Australian ministers. As I clearly said twice.

Why suggest aging Pom should "operate in the background and operate as an incentive to appropriate behaviour by politicians" then?

 

[Deliverance]

But you speak for them.

Sounds a good policy. RWNJs ran a successful campaign to continue the status quo of rich white guys speaking for first nations people.