January 26th 2025

[Skeppersap]

No, it's how little you know or care about the destruction of Aboriginal people in this country.

You believe they just need to put more effort in, and work harder.
You literally have no concept of our past.

So many of us have explained this to you. And you blank it, because you refuse to accept that there is any reason for disparate Aboriginal outcomes, outside of 'them' just being lazy.


You literally are.
It's not an accusation. You have a prejudicial view of Aboriginal people.
You believe we have equality in Australia and that Aboriginal people are to blame for their disparate outcomes.
You cannot see how your view is prejudicial, because you just believe it to be true.

To you the increased alcoholism, increased abuse, increased incarceration's etc is all an aspect of who 'they' are as a people, and nothing to do with the impacts on them as a people for untold generations.

Your belief is that it is prejudice, my belief is that it is just reality. I also don't believe that my actions prejudice in any way.

The hard thing about generalising about a whole race of people of course is that that there are plenty who have made the most of equal opportunities presented to them, and are outstanding contributors to society.

 

[Roylion]

They can annul any law they like within a year of it passing, or just outright refuse any new law up-front.

Only on the advice of their Australian ministers.

The King has the most power of any individual in the constitution. And they're the King by birthright.

The monarch has the reserve powers vested in their person. The Governor-General exercises those reserve powers which are not vested in the office of Governor-General.

Charles is half-Greek.

Charles was born in England, as was his mother Queen Elizabeth II and three of his four grandparents. Does that make him more British than Greek? Prince Philip was not a Greek, other that he happened to be born there. He left Greece when aged eighteen months old. Philip stated that he thought of himself as Danish and spoke mostly English, living in England permanently from the age of nine. His parents were Prince Andrew of Greece (a Dane) and Alice of Battenberg (born in Britain).

But because his Mum was who she was, he has the most power of any person in the Australian constitution.

The reserve powers are vested in his person, but the Australian Governor-General exercises those powers.

 

[CM86]

Your belief is that it is prejudice, my belief is that it is just reality. I also don't believe that my actions prejudice in any way.

The hard thing about generalising about a whole race of people of course is that that there are plenty who have made the most of equal opportunities presented to them, and are outstanding contributors to society.

OK then.
Just purely as a hypothetical. If your view of Aboriginal people was wrong, just hypothetically, could it be a racist view?

We don't have to agree that you're right or wrong.
Just purely as a hypothetical, could you see how your view could be racist, if your foundation for it was wrong?

 

[Roylion]

The King has very little power in regards to Australian affairs.

That's correct.

The monarch of Australia, if required, acts with regard to Australian affairs, exclusively upon the formal advice of his/her responsible Australian ministers only.

The King cannot over rule the assent of the Governor-General to a law without the advice of his responsible (those that have the confidence of the lower house) Australian ministers, but has the option do so (Section 59), if advised to do so by those same responsible Australian ministers, within a year of the governor-general's royal assent being granted.

 

[Skeppersap]

OK then.
Just purely as a hypothetical. If your view of Aboriginal people was wrong, just hypothetically, could it be a racist view?

We don't have to agree that you're right or wrong.
Just purely as a hypothetical, could you see how your view could be racist, if your foundation for it was wrong?

I do not have a view of 'Aboriginal people'. I believe that indigenous Australians currently have the same opportunity as any other person in Australia, and have so for many decades now. Some have chosen to overcome the wrongs of 2 generations ago, some have not. I see this as no different to non indigenous who come from a past which doesn't include generational wealth. Some have chosen to overcome their battles or poverty, some have not. Regardless, all should continue to be afforded the exact same opportunity moving forward. If some continue to choose not to take up that opportunity, that is on them.

 

[CM86]

I do not have a view of 'Aboriginal people'. I believe that indigenous Australians currently have the same opportunity as any other person in Australia, and have so for many decades now. Some have chosen to overcome the wrongs of 2 generations ago, some have not. I see this as no different to non indigenous who come from a past which doesn't include generational wealth. Some have chosen to overcome their battles or poverty, some have not. Regardless, all should continue to be afforded the exact same opportunity moving forward. If some continue to choose not to take up that opportunity, that is on them.

OK...

Really simple then.

WHY do you think that Aboriginal people 'choose' not to 'take up the opportunities' overwhelmingly more than non-Aboriginal people?
Why is it a similar measurable outcome across all of Australia, for Aboriginal people?

 

[RedStarUncle]

I do not have a view of 'Aboriginal people'. I believe that indigenous Australians currently have the same opportunity as any other person in Australia, and have so for many decades now. Some have chosen to overcome the wrongs of 2 generations ago, some have not. I see this as no different to non indigenous who come from a past which doesn't include generational wealth. Some have chosen to overcome their battles or poverty, some have not. Regardless, all should continue to be afforded the exact same opportunity moving forward. If some continue to choose not to take up that opportunity, that is on them.

I'm quite concerned with your use of choice in your world view.

It must be nice and simple to believe that advantage and disadvantage don't matter in the world, so long as everyone just has a "choice" to overcome them or not as they see fit.

 

[rank and file]

This the utter ignorance that prevents meaningful progress in this country.

I believe the most significant division in our society is class, not skin colour. Children born to wealthy parents generally have better outcomes. And we know that wealth can be generational. But what you ignore is that just one generation ago, Aboriginal people were actively excluded from society, education and generating wealth, there’s been little opportunity to grow wealth and pass it on to the next generation.

It is intellectually simplistic to say current laws allow equality of opportunity therefore it’s only Aboriginal ‘culture’ stopping them from getting ahead. An entire group was prevented from participating equally in our system for 200 years and then blamed for not getting up to speed immediately. It’s like starting a 200m race 50m behind everyone else and then blaming them for not running hard enough.

Just on your analogy,be like Cathy,beat the handicappers and get around them.
GOAT Stawell Gift performance.

 

[CM86]

Can anyone else explain this more clearly than I can? Because I do not seem to be able to put across what I mean in the right way.



If you view Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people as equal. You accept that the disparate outcomes are almost entirely due to external factors.

If you don't view Aboriginal people as equal to non-Aboriginal people. Because you 'know' that the disparate outcomes are almost entirely due to internal factors.

And to view Aboriginal people as not equal to non-Aboriginal people, is racial prejudice.


What am I missing here? Or what am I not expressing properly? Can anyone help me?

 

[CM86]

Just on your analogy,be like Cathy,beat the handicappers and get around them.
GOAT Stawell Gift performance.

To extend on that... There's only ever been one Cathy Freeman. And she only ever did that once.

Wouldn't it be better to remove the handicap, to see everyone's full potential?

 

[peetoo]

The King has very little power in regards to Australian affairs.

Just a ‘voice’

 

[Gough]

Just a ‘voice’

The King that has no power but is absolutely vital ongoing stability of our political institutions does tend to beg the question, what is his point?

 

[peetoo]

The King that has no power but is absolutely vital ongoing stability of our political institutions does tend to beg the question, what is his point?

It’s a constitutional arrangement based on heredity so should have a similar vibe to the voice in the public’s mind

 

[JackOutback]

I do not have a view of 'Aboriginal people'. I believe that indigenous Australians currently have the same opportunity as any other person in Australia, and have so for many decades now.

And you would be wrong. Our system is set up to favour wealthy and wealth is generational. And Aboriginal people were actively excluded from wealth until just recently. You don’t simply make up for 200 years of wealth exclusion in 30 years.

 

[MPMonkeys]

And you would be wrong. Our system is set up to favour wealthy and wealth is generational. And Aboriginal people were actively excluded from wealth until just recently. You don’t simply make up for 200 years of wealth exclusion in 30 years.

Every system in the world favours wealth over poverty.

And what do you mean by Aboriginal people being actively excluded from wealth?
30 years ago footballers such as Long, Wanganeen, Matera were signing lucrative contracts.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Are you sure it wasn't just people quoting Noel Pearson or Marcia Langton?

Nah, I am sure they were just racist flogs.

 

[CM86]

Every system in the world favours wealth over poverty.

And what do you mean by Aboriginal people being actively excluded from wealth?
30 years ago footballers such as Long, Wanganeen, Matera were signing lucrative contracts.

You understand that that's... three people. Right?

"As of 30 June 2021, there are 983,700 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people".

Did they split it amongst everyone evenly?

Generational displacement solved?



But you make a good point. 'They' should be grateful that 'we' even gave 'them' that!

 

[Cmarsh]

Every system in the world favours wealth over poverty.

And what do you mean by Aboriginal people being actively excluded from wealth?
30 years ago footballers such as Long, Wanganeen, Matera were signing lucrative contracts.

It gets dileberately political when people oversimplify the situation into this "Aboriginal people disadvantaged, white people advantaged" dichotomy.

In my personal life, I know numerous Aboriginal people who are quite well off and doing well both financially and in their careers. But this is not a narrative you hear too often and some only really want to talk about the disadvantage.

 

[CM86]

It gets dileberately political when people oversimplify the situation into this "Aboriginal people disadvantaged, white people advantaged" dichotomy.

In my personal life, I know numerous Aboriginal people who are quite well off and doing well both financially and in their careers. But this is not a narrative you hear too often and some only really want to talk about the disadvantage.

It's interesting that you view it as "white" vs "Aboriginal"...


And it's about the disproportionality...
In general you don't look at 'outliers' to understand the data. Unless you want to avoid fixing the disparity... for... whatever reason...

 

[Roylion]

The King that has no power but is absolutely vital ongoing stability of our political institutions does tend to beg the question, what is his point?

Reserve powers are vested in the monarch. In most cases they are exercised by the Governor-General. But they are not invested in the office of Governor-General.

The checks and balances on both the Sovereign and the office of the Governor-General works very well.

The whole point of reserve powers vested in the monarch and exercised by his/her representatives is that those reserve powers mostly operate in the background and operate as an incentive to appropriate behaviour by politicians (who as Ministers are 'responsible advisers') in delivering a responsible government. They're not a royal or vice-regal veto that can be exercised at will, as some have implied. Responsible advisers are those ministers who hold the confidence of the lower House of the Parliament and who are responsible to the people through the Parliament for the advice that they give to the monarch.

If a Minister (including the Prime Minister) loses the confidence of the lower House of Parliament, then the monarch / governor-general does not have to follow their formal advice in exercising their powers.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

In my personal life, I know numerous Aboriginal people who are quite well off and doing well both financially and in their careers. But this is not a narrative you hear too often and some only really want to talk about the disadvantage.

That's because the stats don't lie. As a people, Indigenous Australians are greatly disadvantaged compared to non-Indigenous Australians.

 

[JackOutback]

Every system in the world favours wealth over poverty.

And what do you mean by Aboriginal people being actively excluded from wealth?
30 years ago footballers such as Long, Wanganeen, Matera were signing lucrative contracts.

Is this a joke post?

It’s like arguing black people in America aren’t disadvantaged, despite the statistical evidence, because Lebron James signed a monster contract.

 

[Cmarsh]

That's because the stats don't lie. As a people, Indigenous Australians are greatly disadvantaged compared to non-Indigenous Australians.

Yes, but the point of my post, which you have edited out, was the overly represented narrative of dichotomy for political purposes.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Is this a joke post?

It’s like arguing black people in America aren’t disadvantaged, despite the statistical evidence, because Lebron James signed a monster contract.

You said Aboriginal people were excluded from wealth just 30 years ago.

How would that even be possible?

 

[CM86]

You said Aboriginal people were excluded from wealth just 30 years ago.

How would that even be possible?

You're just lying. And it's deliberate.

They said "You don’t simply make up for 200 years of wealth exclusion in 30 years."

And you then said, well there were three of 'them' that did well in the last 30 years. Which is exactly the stupidity JackOutback was calling out...