January 26th 2025

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Frank Bunn said:
You are making a fool of yourself. There is no way Aboriginal tribes in the Swan River area had a clue about the First Fleet landing at Port Jackson 4,000 km away.

Even communication across 100 km would have been very challenging, given that people would have had to walk for days, without reliable food or water, to meet a potentially hostile tribe who spoke another language.
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Incorrect on all counts. Let's look at the Kulin Nation for example. The Kulin Nation consisted of the Woiwurrung, Bunurong, Wathaurong, Taungurong, and Dja Dja Wurrung language groups. Most of these mobs were not allowed to marry within their own mobs. They could either marry other Kulin Nation Clans or marry other groups such as Yorta Yorta or Wemba Wemba that extended up to the NSW borders on the Murray. Others may have married across to the South Australian Border. Let's use Dights Falls for example. This was an incredibly important meeting place for marriage, conflict resolution, ceremonies and celebrations. Mobs came from as far as South Australia and New South Wales to meet here. Now these groups such as Wemba Wemba and Yorta Yorta did the same sharing relationships with mobs deeper in to the Sydney area and the same for the South Australian mobs who extended relationships North and West towards NT and WA. Word spread very quickly. And this is without bringing in the trade routes and the way word spread quickly from groups who used story to communicate. Listen and learn instead of labelling people fools.
 
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Cmarsh said:
Can you please elaborate on this strong communication system and how it operated?
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See above. Aboriginal groups were not isolated mobs. Marriage, ceremonies, trade, initiations and conflict resolution meant there was regular contact with groups.
 
MPMonkeys said:
That headline only exists in your mind. And I can barely recall a Murdoch paper that has had the Australian flag on it save for maybe a gold medal at the Olympics or something similar.
Click to expand...

The Daily Tele from a few days ago when the IPA released their totally legit poll results. You can find it on Musk book if you wish
 
Frank Bunn said:
You are making a fool of yourself. There is no way Aboriginal tribes in the Swan River area had a clue about the First Fleet landing at Port Jackson 4,000 km away.

Even communication across 100 km would have been very challenging, given that people would have had to walk for days, without reliable food or water, to meet a potentially hostile tribe who spoke another language.
Click to expand...

And please enlighten me on which elders see which dates as invasion days. What does Mum Miriam Rose see it as with the Nauiyu or old lady Wilson at Peppimenarti? You seem to have a grasp on all the Elder's views. Please enlighten us on your extensive knowledge of Aboriginal elders' views.
 
schneebly111 said:
I don’t think the poster meant communication across the Nullabor. However contact between groups on the tightly packed SE corner would have spread gradual word of the arrival of boats carrying light skinned people.

Don’t forget British people didn’t permanently arrive in Victoria until some 20 years after the so called “Australia day” landing in Sydney harbour, 30 years til they crossed west of the Blue Mountains and 40 years til they got to Queensland.

Further inland, Indigenous peoples were warned of the British invasion after the Cumberland Plain had been taken by 1815, and this information preceded them by hundreds of kilometres.

en.m.wikipedia.org

History of Indigenous Australians - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

It unfortunately seems the main way indigenous tribes knew about the arrival of the British was the sudden arrival of smallpox which spread through indigenous communities like wildfire
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So you're telling me that invasion day in Victoria was 20 years after the First Fleet landing and in Queensland it was 40 years after?
 
MPMonkeys said:
That headline only exists in your mind. And I can barely recall a Murdoch paper that has had the Australian flag on it save for maybe a gold medal at the Olympics or something similar.

The fact is, if the left wing press did not raise the subject every year, then there would be no need for anyone to counter argue against it. Makes logical sense, if nobody is against then there is no need to argue in favor.
So the ;culture war' is started by those wanting to change the date, not keep the date.

As above, I think what the Left really want is for their proposals just to be accepted and that nobody should be allowed to debate its merits.
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Left wing press? The liberal leadership was revving it up before many people had got their Christmas trees up yet. Pull another one
 
South of the Yarra said:
Incorrect on all counts. Let's look at the Kulin Nation for example. The Kulin Nation consisted of the Woiwurrung, Bunurong, Wathaurong, Taungurong, and Dja Dja Wurrung language groups. Most of these mobs were not allowed to marry within their own mobs. They could either marry other Kulin Nation Clans or marry other groups such as Yorta Yorta or Wemba Wemba that extended up to the NSW borders on the Murray. Others may have married across to the South Australian Border. Let's use Dights Falls for example. This was an incredibly important meeting place for marriage, conflict resolution, ceremonies and celebrations. Mobs came from as far as South Australia and New South Wales to meet here. Now these groups such as Wemba Wemba and Yorta Yorta did the same sharing relationships with mobs deeper in to the Sydney area and the same for the South Australian mobs who extended relationships North and West towards NT and WA. Word spread very quickly. And this is without bringing in the trade routes and the way word spread quickly from groups who used story to communicate. Listen and learn instead of labelling people fools.
Click to expand...

We are asked to believe there was one ubiquitous and continuous indigenous culture in what we now call Australia that lasted 60,000 years. It's a modern myth. That there were 250 different languages suggests that the tribes were mostly isolated from each other. They would have had different cultures. Some tribes followed patrilineal systems while others had matrilineal systems. Some had a form of welcome to country, others didn't. They had different spiritual beliefs.

Much of what we understand is based on speculation, as there is no written history. Oral stories could have changed over time and fairly recent circumstances, and what has been passed down might only be applicable to a few generations before European settlement. In over 60,000 years how many times did these tribes attack and wipe out each other that could be called invasion day?

I'm still waiting to hear how Aboriginal tribes in Swan River WA had a clue about the First Fleet landing at Port Jackson 4,000 km away. There was not an 'invasion day'.
 
Frank Bunn said:
We are asked to believe there was one ubiquitous and continuous indigenous culture in what we now call Australia that lasted 60,000 years. It's a modern myth. That there were 250 different languages suggests that the tribes were mostly isolated from each other. They would have had different cultures. Some tribes followed patrilineal systems while others had matrilineal systems. Some had a form of welcome to country, others didn't. They had different spiritual beliefs.

Much of what we understand is based on speculation, as there is no written history. Oral stories could have changed over time and fairly recent circumstances, and what has been passed down might only be applicable to a few generations before European settlement. In over 60,000 years how many times did these tribes attack and wipe out each other that could be called invasion day?

I'm still waiting to hear how Aboriginal tribes in Swan River WA had a clue about the First Fleet landing at Port Jackson 4,000 km away. There was not an 'invasion day'.
Click to expand...

I have already told you. As always in every post about Aboriginals over the last few years you have become extremely threatened and are not willing to listen. Please enlighten me on what date various elders see Invasion Day as. You have no idea as you know none. You don't speak to any. I speak to hundreds each year. I also know what date I see invasion Day as. Keep your anti Aboriginal sentiments up, it is a great learning for others.
 
South of the Yarra said:
I have already told you. As always in every post about Aboriginals over the last few years you have become extremely threatened and are not willing to listen. Please enlighten me on what date various elders see Invasion Day as. You have no idea as you know none. You don't speak to any. I speak to hundreds each year. I also know what date I see invasion Day as. Keep your anti Aboriginal sentiments up, it is a great learning for others.
Click to expand...

Geez. It's like talking to a toddler. Use your words to argue against what I have said.
 

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Frank Bunn said:
Geez. It's like talking to a toddler. Use your words to argue against what I have said.
Click to expand...
There's intellectual interest in what you say... when did different Aboriginal mobs learn about the light-skinned people coming to their shores, how much communication was there, was WA/NT completely removed from events until much later. However, it does not seem that you are raising these issues in good faith, rather to have a pot shot about Aboriginal history and to diminish the the effects of settlement.
 
Has a genuine alternative date been put forward?? Lot of back and forth but what’s the alternative? because no matter what date they choose. It will always symbolise colonisation and will offend. Don’t change the date but change the focus around the date.
 
South of the Yarra said:
And this is without bringing in the trade routes and the way word spread quickly from groups who used story to communicate. Listen and learn instead of labelling people fools.
Click to expand...

There’s another facet to Australian history I’d never learnt until the greater understanding of indigenous history became more well known a few years back. The first “foreign relations” weren’t between British Australians and some other country, it was indigenous people and the Makassans (modern day Indonesians)

en.m.wikipedia.org

Makassan contact with Australia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Some would have you think indigenous people were no more than savages, in fact they were quasi trading and maintaining foreign relations with our northern neighbours well before the events of Jan 26 1788

And very few people know about it. It is a massive shame that Australian history is so simple in our consciousness. First fleet, settlers, gold rush, Anzacs, migrants, the end. I mean I’ve seen it on this thread when some posters have mocked the idea that indigenous groups communicated and warned each other of the British arrival. Sort of like how modern conservatives mock traditions like the welcome to country as being “invented” by Ernie Dingo in the 1970s
 

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January 26th 2025

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