Jacinta Allan - Leading a zombie government

[Saint]

Wire ropes are also being installed by TAC, because it's cheaper to install them than to treat the hospital patients which result if they don't install the barriers. The financial basis of this is well publicised.

Allen is stuffed. Purse is empty and they've hitched their wagon to a blue elephant in the affluent eastern suburbs at the expense of every other suburb. Hubris 101.

They might even lose seats like Werribee (Pallas) at this rate.

When unemployment hits 5% in the new year while Cost of Living is still biting, I wouldn't be surprised to see Allen get the sack earlier if the backbenchers start seeing polls to go along with the rising unemployment rate.

It's one thing to be united when polls and the economy is going well. But the ALP loves an in-fight when Unions start shedding workers/jobs at a massive rate.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Wire ropes are also being installed by TAC, because it's cheaper to install them than to treat the hospital patients which result if they don't install the barriers. The financial basis of this is well publicised.

Allen is stuffed. Purse is empty and they've hitched their wagon to a blue elephant in the affluent eastern suburbs at the expense of every other suburb. Hubris 101.

They might even lose seats like Werribee (Pallas) at this rate.

When unemployment hits 5% in the new year while Cost of Living is still biting, I wouldn't be surprised to see Allen get the sack earlier if the backbenchers start seeing polls to go along with the rising unemployment rate.

It's one thing to be united when polls and the economy is going well. But the ALP loves an in-fight when Unions start shedding workers/jobs at a massive rate.

That and the albatross around the necks of the constituents which is the SRL, in particular the eyesore that is the stabling yard in Heatherton, which was earmarked to be a sporting complex.

 

[Saint]

That and the albatross around the necks of the constituents which is the SRL, in particular the eyesore that is the stabling yard in Heatherton, which was earmarked to be a sporting complex.

That old chestnut?

There's no shortage of open space in that part of Heatherton. It was "earmarked" for that by locals. Nothing was ever committed to it.

There are legitimate problems with SRL. The location of the stabling yard isn't one of them.

 

[Carn The Berries]

one of the issues is that there’s a division between state-controlled roads and municipal-controlled roads. i know of one example regarding speed limits, where two parallel roads under municipal control have changed the speed limit to 50km. in between those roads is a state-controlled road with a 60km speed limit. all arterials with about the same traffic volume.

Intersections are an even bigger mess. There are a number near my place that probably need traffic lights. Getting the local council and RRV to actually agree on the best way forward is like pulling teeth.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Wire ropes are also being installed by TAC, because it's cheaper to install them than to treat the hospital patients which result if they don't install the barriers. The financial basis of this is well publicised.

Allen is stuffed. Purse is empty and they've hitched their wagon to a blue elephant in the affluent eastern suburbs at the expense of every other suburb. Hubris 101.

They might even lose seats like Werribee (Pallas) at this rate.

When unemployment hits 5% in the new year while Cost of Living is still biting, I wouldn't be surprised to see Allen get the sack earlier if the backbenchers start seeing polls to go along with the rising unemployment rate.

It's one thing to be united when polls and the economy is going well. But the ALP loves an in-fight when Unions start shedding workers/jobs at a massive rate.

My question is, are the numbers that formed the basis of the original decision being reflected in reduced treatment costs from major accidents on those routes? I'd also be interested to know what the assumption was for ongoing maintenance, there would be 100s of kms of wires around my area that have remained non-functioning after being involved in an accident.

 

[Saint]

My question is, are the numbers that formed the basis of the original decision being reflected in reduced treatment costs from major accidents on those routes? I'd also be interested to know what the assumption was for ongoing maintenance, there would be 100s of kms of wires around my area that have remained non-functioning after being involved in an accident.

Safety on Victoria's Roads—Regional Road Barriers | Victorian Auditor-General's Office

This audit looked at whether Victoria’s regional road barriers program has met its intended safety outcomes. To do this, we focused on the flexible barriers installed by VicRoads on 20 high-risk rural roads, which is known as the Top 20 Program. We assessed the Transport Accident Commission...

www.audit.vic.gov.au

The crash rates should be re-done now that the barriers have been in place post-COVID.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Safety on Victoria's Roads—Regional Road Barriers | Victorian Auditor-General's Office

This audit looked at whether Victoria’s regional road barriers program has met its intended safety outcomes. To do this, we focused on the flexible barriers installed by VicRoads on 20 high-risk rural roads, which is known as the Top 20 Program. We assessed the Transport Accident Commission...

www.audit.vic.gov.au

The crash rates should be re-done now that the barriers have been in place post-COVID.

I think the crash rates are the least of TAC/VicRoads concern coming from that report. They cooked the books to justify the project in the first place and are using unreliable data to measure it's ongoing success/failure.

 

[Couch Coach]

Motorcyclists love wire rope barriers:

https://mraa.net.au/wire-rope-barriers/

The problem with wire rope safety barriers

Wire rope safety barriers are meant to protect motorists, but at the same time they can be incredibly dangerous. Find out about the dangers & alternatives.

www.mauriceblackburn.com.au

Wire rope barriers cause more harm than good to regional motorists

The Nationals represent people who live and work in regional Victoria. Two great strengths of the Party are our membership and democratic processes.

vic.nationals.org.au

Why are cable barriers still hurting motorcyclists? - FEMA

FEMA - the international motorcycling community

www.femamotorcycling.eu

 

[Saint]

I think the crash rates are the least of TAC/VicRoads concern coming from that report. They cooked the books to justify the project in the first place and are using unreliable data to measure it's ongoing success/failure.

All crash data in road safety is unreliable. At both the state (SSRIP) and Commonwealth (Blackspot) level.

No single intersection has a statistically significant crash history. Two fatal crashes could be a statistical anomaly or an underlying problem. But if two fatal crashes occur at an intersection (in a Council area), it gets treated.

When Blackspot started there was statistical significance. They ran out of those intersections about 5-10 years ago.

Trying to measure crash reduction factors is even harder, that's why the confidence interval is so wide.

 

[Saint]

Motorcyclists love wire rope barriers:

https://mraa.net.au/wire-rope-barriers/

The problem with wire rope safety barriers

Wire rope safety barriers are meant to protect motorists, but at the same time they can be incredibly dangerous. Find out about the dangers & alternatives.

www.mauriceblackburn.com.au

Wire rope barriers cause more harm than good to regional motorists

The Nationals represent people who live and work in regional Victoria. Two great strengths of the Party are our membership and democratic processes.

vic.nationals.org.au

Why are cable barriers still hurting motorcyclists? - FEMA

FEMA - the international motorcycling community

www.femamotorcycling.eu

Motorcyclists hate physics. There's no other reason to hurtle your un-restrained body at 100km/h in an uncontrolled environment. The human body will fail at about 40 km/h into a fixed object (i.e. body hitting tree/pole/fence or car hitting pedestrian). The tissues holding vital organs in place can only sustain about that speed of impact.

 

[Carn The Berries]

All crash data in road safety is unreliable. At both the state (SSRIP) and Commonwealth (Blackspot) level.

No single intersection has a statistically significant crash history. Two fatal crashes could be a statistical anomaly or an underlying problem. But if two fatal crashes occur at an intersection (in a Council area), it gets treated.

When Blackspot started there was statistical significance. They ran out of those intersections about 5-10 years ago.

Trying to measure crash reduction factors is even harder, that's why the confidence interval is so wide.

Taking the one or two locations that are at the top end of the expected range (and outside the confidence level of significance) is cooking the books.

They also can't even identify which accidents occurred at locations that have safety barriers. How on earth is that even possible?

I get that its a somewhat inexact science, but did you read the AG's critique in the report? VicRoads/TAC just made it up as they went along and haven't even established a method for measuring success.

 

[The Punter]

I get that its a somewhat inexact science, but did you read the AG's critique in the report?

As the previous Premier said, people like the AG are entitled to their view.

 

[Not Important]

I don’t know about your scenario, but I do know councils cannot change speed limits without approval of the Dept of Transport. This means one body sets speed limits.

that may be so. it’s become a bit of a distraction. the reason i raised the speed limit matter was to point out not all roads are specifically state-controlled. it’s not just side streets that municipalities are responsible for. and that’s not to excuse the state for allowing so many for which they are responsible to fall into disrepair.

 

[The Punter]

that may be so. it’s become a bit of a distraction. the reason i raised the speed limit matter was to point out not all roads are specifically state-controlled. it’s not just side streets that municipalities are responsible for. and that’s not to excuse the state for allowing so many for which they are responsible to fall into disrepair.

Also worth keeping in mind that the rural version of a side street might be an important arterial road that just falls under their jurisdiction. Rural councils have few ways or raising revenue (unlike inner city councils who can raise parking fees) and enormous road portfolios to maintain. The only way to solve that funding gap is for state governments to grant monies to local councils to maintain their roads.

 

[Carn The Berries]

As the previous Premier said, people like the AG are entitled to their view.

And sadly that view will be seen or heard by very few people. I presume the report has already gone through the shredder in the Premier's office.

 

[The Punter]

And sadly that view will be seen or heard by very few people. I presume the report has already gone through the shredder in the Premier's office.

I've said it before in this forum, but perhaps Andrews' greatest political skill was his ability to turn anyone who criticised him into a nobody. Like the Auditor-General, the Ombudsman and the head of IBAC.

 

[Saint]

Taking the one or two locations that are at the top end of the expected range (and outside the confidence level of significance) is cooking the books.

They also can't even identify which accidents occurred at locations that have safety barriers. How on earth is that even possible?

I get that its a somewhat inexact science, but did you read the AG's critique in the report? VicRoads/TAC just made it up as they went along and haven't even established a method for measuring success.

There's a problem for a while about measuring outcomes at DTP/VicRoads. The problem is that a lot of them are at non-statistically-significant locations and there just aren't enough comparators.

 

[Saint]

I've said it before in this forum, but perhaps Andrews' greatest political skill was his ability to turn anyone who criticised him into a nobody. Like the Auditor-General, the Ombudsman and the head of IBAC.

This has been a bi-partisan effort for decades at all levels of Government, particularly as the professional political class has emerged and they look out for themselves first because they don't have alternative careers to fall back on any more.

 

[The Punter]

This has been a bi-partisan effort for decades at all levels of Government, particularly as the professional political class has emerged and they look out for themselves first because they don't have alternative careers to fall back on any more.

Nice, but that's like saying the Harlem Globetrotters and the Washington Generals have a bi-partisan effort to play basketball. One is clearly more committed and better at it than the other, at least in a Victorian context.

 

[Carn The Berries]

There's a problem for a while about measuring outcomes at DTP/VicRoads. The problem is that a lot of them are at non-statistically-significant locations and there just aren't enough comparators.

That still doesn't explain selecting an "average" incident reduction that was above the top end of the confidence level as the basis for justifying the ENTIRE project.

I don't think the measurement is all that difficult really. They will have had an assumption about the number of incidents per year on each part of the project. They should be able to easily track how many incidents have actually occurred (because every incident damages the wires). Cross reference that against TAC claims (and how much they've cost) and that will tell you how much has been spent on claims vs how much has been spent on installation. Extrapolate that over the expected useful life and there is your saving or cost.

Something tells me they actually know the answer... And don't want anyone else to see it.

 

[Saint]

Nice, but that's like saying the Harlem Globetrotters and the Washington Generals have a bi-partisan effort to play basketball. One is clearly more committed and better at it than the other, at least in a Victorian context.

The Libs weren't in power for long, didn't do a lot and still racked up similar problems around Ventnor, Fishermans Bend, East-West Link, undermining the Police Commissioner.

Scrutiny seems to suit none of them.