NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Gralin]

How can you “recognise racism” here where there is still so much we don’t know?

I'm genuinely intrigued.

We've got what 6 families including the Riolis saying the club wasn't safe for First Nations players.

How much more do you need to know?

 

[mcnulty]

You’d have to think though for Egan, if he was in charge of a report where a raft of people, their families and an assistant coach, lied about suffering serious abuse at the hands of people, he’d be criticized too.

I mean, it’s explosive stuff in the report, if Clarko and Fagan are exonerated by new evidence, they’d no doubt come after Egan as well for being in charge of a process that stitched them up completely.

Egan is a family member of a very disgruntled ex employee. Not saying it has motivated him, but it has not escaped attention.

Racism allegations at Hawthorn are appalling, but will there be justice for all?

The AFL investigation into Phil Egan's report will have to dig deep and listen hard to all sides of this traumatic story.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[mcnulty]

We've got what 6 families including the Riolis saying the club wasn't safe for First Nations players.

How much more do you need to know?

Lol, “including the Riolis”. You realise that the Hawthorn report has given the club a clean bill of health. Even though the Rioli’s said just this year they’re not comfortable there. And Jeff’s review has taken himself out of the equation.

How much more do you need to know before you realise you’re being played?

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Its not a court case but it will be hugely swayed by public opinion. If there are records that counter certain details then I think that the public would turn very quickly. Whether that is fair or not.

Yeah agree.

I reckon for Clarko and Fagan to get out of it, they’ll have to metaphorically get down and dirty and start flinging mud and try and win the public “heart and minds”battle.

That strategy will be extremely risky if it involves going after the accusers as it could easily backfire, so that leaves lining up Jackson and maybe Egan to fling mud at.

Jackson has a big platform though at the ABC and a Walkley so he’s no pushover to besmirch either.

 

[Gralin]

Lol, “including the Riolis”. You realise that the Hawthorn report has given the club a clean bill of health. Even though the Rioli’s said just this year they’re not comfortable there. And Jeff’s review has taken himself out of the equation.

How much more do you need to know before you realise you’re being played?

See what I mean about not finding any examples of it even though you say you know it exists?

 

[Gralin]

Egan is a family member of a very disgruntled ex employee. Not saying it has motivated him, but it has not escaped attention.

Racism allegations at Hawthorn are appalling, but will there be justice for all?

The AFL investigation into Phil Egan's report will have to dig deep and listen hard to all sides of this traumatic story.

www.crikey.com.au

So you don't believe Cyril, you don't believe these other players, you don't believe either of the Egan's but you do believe in racism.

Interesting

 

[mcnulty]

So you don't believe Cyril, you don't believe these other players, you don't believe either of the Egan's but you do believe in racism.

Interesting

I’m not sure what sort of bizarre dots you've drawn together in your own addled neurones, but I’ll attempt to simplify it for you:

I believe racism exists. Sadly, too much of it. But the extent to which it applies to a given situation depends on the specifics of that situation.

I really can’t put it any simpler than that. I have crayons, if that will help.

 

[Gralin]

I’m not sure what sort of bizarre dots you've drawn together in your own addled neurones, but I’ll attempt to simplify it for you:

I believe racism exists. Sadly, too much of it. But the extent to which it applies to a given situation depends on the specifics of that situation.

I really can’t put it any simpler than that. I have crayons, if that will help.

Yes that's it keep the insults going

It's very simple.

You don't believe the black former players and staff and family members who say they experienced racism at Hawthorn, in fact you laugh and say people who do like me are gullible.

So your view on racism is it is real but you know better than the people who say they experienced it.....

 

[mcnulty]

You don't believe the black former players and staff and family members who say they experienced racism at Hawthorn, in fact you laugh and say people who do like me are

Once again, I have never said I don’t believe. I said I am waiting for both sides of the story. Rather telling you interpret this the way you do.

As I said, an extraordinarily bad faith poster.

 

[Gralin]

Once again, I have never said I don’t believe. I said I am waiting for both sides of the story. Rather telling you interpret this the way you do.

As I said, an extraordinarily bad faith poster.

Sure

Lol, “including the Riolis”. You realise that the Hawthorn report has given the club a clean bill of health. Even though the Rioli’s said just this year they’re not comfortable there. And Jeff’s review has taken himself out of the equation.

How much more do you need to know before you realise you’re being played?

This really reads like you're keeping an open mind and waiting for more information
So does this

Egan is a family member of a very disgruntled ex employee. Not saying it has motivated him, but it has not escaped attention.

Racism allegations at Hawthorn are appalling, but will there be justice for all?

The AFL investigation into Phil Egan's report will have to dig deep and listen hard to all sides of this traumatic story.

www.crikey.com.au

Yeah you're just waiting for Clarko to say it didn't happen so you can dismiss the allegations fully

 

[mcnulty]

Sure

This really reads like you're keeping an open mind and waiting for more information
So does this

Yeah you're just waiting for Clarko to say it didn't happen so you can dismiss the allegations fully

Nope. I’m waiting to hear what Clarkson has to say so that reasonable people (and the powers that be) can make informed decisions on how to proceed.

What right minded person would have it any other way?

 

[Gralin]

Nope. I’m waiting to hear what Clarkson has to say so that reasonable people (and the powers that be) can make informed decisions on how to proceed.

What right minded person would have it any other way?

Which means you don't believe the people who have already spoken.
And your posting reflects that.
You're just waiting for Clarkson to say it didn't happen so you can agree with him.

 

[Sherrinator]

And as expected, the shiny news story has gotten old and boring. Nothing to see here fellas. Let’s move on with our lives. Except Jackson. He needs a new hobby.

 

[JGreezy]

You don't believe the black former players and staff and family members who say they experienced racism at Hawthorn, in fact you laugh and say people who do like me are gullible.

So your view on racism is it is real but you know better than the people who say they experienced it.....

Clarkson and Fagan are saying that they have been falsely accused. I think that we can all agree that some people do get falsely accused of things.

"So you believe that false accusations are real but you know better than people who say they experienced it..."

Can you see how illogical that sounds?

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that racism occurs while still wanting an investigation before putting that title onto an individual.

 

[mcnulty]

Which means you don't believe the people who have already spoken.
And your posting reflects that.
You're just waiting for Clarkson to say it didn't happen so you can agree with him.

Good grief, are you suggesting that justice is dependent on one side of the story.

You are seriously beclowning yourself here.

 

[Gralin]

Good grief, are you suggesting that justice is dependent on one side of the story.

You are seriously beclowning yourself here.

Last chance to leave the insults out with your responses

 

[Gralin]

Clarkson and Fagan are saying that they have been falsely accused. I think that we can all agree that some people do get falsely accused of things.

"So you believe that false accusations are real but you know better than people who say they experienced it..."

Can you see how illogical that sounds?

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that racism occurs while still wanting an investigation before putting that title onto an individual.

Ah we are into false accusations now, from 6 separate families, yeah that seems likely

 

[mcnulty]

l

Last chance to leave the insults out with your responses

Insults?

 

[JGreezy]

Ah we are into false accusations now, from 6 separate families, yeah that seems likely

I didn't say that they were false accusations. I am giving you a counter example of your faulty logic.

I am saying that just because false accusations occur that shouldn't mean that we automatically believe Clarkson and Fagan when they say that they were falsely accused.

 

[Gralin]

I didn't say that they were false accusations. I am giving you a counter example of your faulty logic.

I am saying that just because false accusations occur that shouldn't mean that we automatically believe Clarkson and Fagan when they say that they were falsely accused.

But they will, because that is what they want to believe.

We just want to hear the other side would be more believable if they didn't spend the time waiting shitting on the stories out there and the people telling them

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

Which means you don't believe the people who have already spoken.
And your posting reflects that.
You're just waiting for Clarkson to say it didn't happen so you can agree with him.

Are you saying this because of his posting history? Or do you take issue with people waiting for the investigation report to come out before they make their mind up?

 

[South of the Yarra]

And as expected, the shiny news story has gotten old and boring. Nothing to see here fellas. Let’s move on with our lives. Except Jackson. He needs a new hobby.

Really?

 

[Gralin]

Are you saying this because of his posting history? Or do you take issue with people waiting for the investigation report to come out before they make their mind up?

There is history in this thread and elsewhere.

I mean there have been stories for years about how controlling Clarkson was, professional sports think they own the athletes.

Sam Mitchell wrote about it in his biography.

There is a certain level of expectation of this and acceptance and also mirroring from fans.

Racism is really common in this country we see examples of it every day if we're paying attention.

We've had many stories of racism in the AFL.

We've now had 6 different families of former players at one club say that in their time at the club they experienced an unsafe work place.

I feel like people not ready to believe this until they've heard from the alleged abusers are just looking for an excuse to not believe it

How often this happens is much higher than how often it's proven. We see this all the time with abuse.

Whether it be race related or not.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

There is history in this thread and elsewhere.

I mean there have been stories for years about how controlling Clarkson was, professional sports think they own the athletes.

Sam Mitchell wrote about it in his biography.

There is a certain level of expectation of this and acceptance and also mirroring from fans.

Racism is really common in this country we see examples of it every day if we're paying attention.

We've had many stories of racism in the AFL.

We've now had 6 different families of former players at one club say that in their time at the club they experienced an unsafe work place.

I feel like people not ready to believe this until they've heard from the alleged abusers are just looking for an excuse to not believe it

How often this happens is much higher than how often it's proven. We see this all the time with abuse.

Whether it be race related or not.

Yeah I don't disagree with you on most of what you said, however, I disagree with the bolded part. I'm sure there are a lot of people that align with what you described but not all.

 

[Gralin]

Yeah I don't disagree with you on most of what you said, however, I disagree with the bolded part. I'm sure there are a lot of people that align with what you described but not all.

I get that.
Innocent until proven guilty is great in theory.
If the system wasn't biased. And the system is biased in part because society is.

It doesn't have to be malicious on the part of the individual but abusers of all types take advantage of it and we do live in a society that despite what some people try to tell us still favours white men over everyone else when it comes to choosing whose word to believe.

Now I believe Clarkson and Fagan would have very different views on their actions to the families impacted.

That doesn't mean their views are more truthful. That doesn't ever discount what the families on the other side felt.

I don't think this will end their careers, we aren't in that place as a country but that doesn't mean what they did wasn't wrong.