List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[gringo2011]

I remember when Peter Summers was president and he made the point after people shat on us for one of our Long Term stratagy outlays. He said something like if “we’re trying to win a premiership … we may as well plan for it.”

To this day , despite it not eventuating the logic untill today is as simply profound as I can remember. Even though we were criticised from pillar to post

It's a shame that they forgot to get around to it. Bassat knows what needs to be done at least. He's spending on the core areas that will build the structures to achieve something. I think we had good intentions back then but without a decent football department, we were hoping for success, not planning for it.

 

[stavro#4]

I think a lot of that depends on what Brett was selling the Board
Had Brett gone to the board and said “look this list isn’t going to get it done…think we need to turn it over…”
Then I suspect things may have been different
The sense (from mikes away) I got was Bassatt and board got sick of being told “we are in the window….almost there Simon…”
When reality hit Simon that sealed Brett’s fate so big part of his demise was due to Brett imo

To be fair I just finished listening to Bassats interview again and I think there is a misunderstanding here.

He spoke about 4 great drafts beginning from the NAS Owens Windy one.

But he also spoke about this build starting from when Ross got here and the extension was a sign that they wanted him to see it through and that 2027 was more inline with their time frame.

 

[botts]

I got a sneaky trade target for us. Henry hustwaite. Saints supporter, stingrays boy. 38 touches and 12 clearances in the weekend for box hill. Pretty far down the pecking order at the hawks

 

[jumperfan]

I got a sneaky trade target for us. Henry hustwaite. Saints supporter, stingrays boy. 38 touches and 12 clearances in the weekend for box hill. Pretty far down the pecking order at the hawks

That’ll be three first rounders and Rowan Marshall, thank you very much

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Seems most likely if, as it’s been reported, that he is keen to stay at the Blues.

If he wants to stay at the Blues .... whose Premiership window is fast closing ..... for 1/2 Mill less a year then that's up to him

 

[SainterinSydney]

Is this full of crap or what ??
Who is this Saints Insider guy?

Was the person drunk when writing that, as in the Saints Insider guy?

 

[Leap of Faith]

True. Very hard on him. But we all pretty much agreed that we were mired in mediocrity. Ratts wasn’t supported as he should have been. As hard as it was to cut him he couldn’t have done what Ross had done. On so many levels. Turning point for the club one hopes.

Crikey I disagree with painting Ratten as hard done by in any way. He was Richo Mk II. Lack of discipline throughout the club and perplexing recruitment was as bad under him as it was under Richo.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Crikey I disagree with painting Ratten as hard done by in any way. He was Richo Mk II. Lack of discipline throughout the club and perplexing recruitment was as bad under him as it was under Richo.

He asked for the next "Cyril" our genius recruiters grabbed Ben Long out of the VFL.
Now if he'd actually got the next Cyril when he asked for it , he might have had a better team to coach.
Probably also asked for gun mids, and freak full forwards.

 

[The Punter]

He asked for the next "Cyril" our genius recruiters grabbed Ben Long out of the VFL.
Now if he'd actually got the next Cyril when he asked for it , he might have had a better team to coach.
Probably also asked for gun mids, and freak full forwards.

We drafted Long in 2016, Ratten left Hawthorn to join St Kilda in late 2018.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Garcia, Collard, Keeler, Hastie, Hall

Barrat, Ari, Box, Said, LOC

 

[Diehard Saint]

What makes it even better is that apparently if they match, and we don't trade, they'll magically keep him on the original contract they offered, not the 1.7mil a year contract they matched.

What a win

 

[Diehard Saint]

Mate the scenario they are making up doesn’t exist. We won’t be paying a bloke 1.7m and then giving up players or draft picks on top.

The only thing Carlton get will be the Band 1 compensation pick.
They should grab it with both hands since they don’t have a first rounder anyway

 

[Joffaboy]

Seems most likely if, as it’s been reported, that he is keen to stay at the Blues.

So you would leave up to 3.5 to 4 million on the table over 7 years?
The amount is so far above Carlton can offer it is just too good to decline.

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We drafted Long in 2016, Ratten left Hawthorn to join St Kilda in late 2018.

Yeah was Richo who asked for the next "Cyril".

 

[gringo2011]

lyon and bassat, feel so confident with them at the helm, was so pumped when we signed lyon the second time round and that feeling has never wavered, even when reading gringo's doom posts every other day

Aren't you the hero.

 

[Atomboy]

So you would leave up to 3.5 to 4 million on the table over 7 years?
The amount is so far above Carlton can offer it is just too good to decline.

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don’t put it past Carlton and their corporate supporters to make it up to TDK on the side somewhere, somehow.

It’s in their DNA.

 

[gringo2011]

I love when he said in similar words that neither he, Ross, nor Dilena walk past anything that they think needs to be fixed.

They appear to be similarly focussed and detail oriented.

And that's all I have ever wanted. High standards and high expectations across the whole organisation. Do that and the rest starts to take care of its self. Have the top staff setting the bar high makes everyone rise to the standard or pushes them out. At that point it becomes self sustaining.

We had gone a long way away from that for a long time. Some clown there thought that a selling point for the club was that no-one gave a shit so it was a relaxed environment. Imagine telling Ross Lyon that. Sharman again qualified that "cuddly Ross" was more a media persona and that he doesn't leave anything to chance. Reviewed very hard after Adelaide and still reviewed hard after last week's win. As you would hope.

The biggest downside for reemploying Lyon was how his ultra defensibve game plan would hold up in modern footy. Instead he's got the brand absolutely on trend. The last 2 weeks we look more like the Hokball Hawks than a lock it down side. Richmond lock us down and we rolled over the top of them.

 

[Sab22]

Yeah was Richo who asked for the next "Cyril".

Yep we gave him Jack Lonie, Mav Weller

 

[gringo2011]

Hoyne from Champion was talking about teams that can move the ball quickly from the backline.
He singled out Wanganeen-Milera and Sinclair as reasons that Saints can do it well.
Then the comment was that Port weren't that good at it , and that they didn't have any real weapons behind the ball.

Bergman?

He kicks it away rather than shoots a 60 meter pass onto the tit of a player up ahead in heavy traffic. Bergman is that anti-Nas. More like a messier Jimmy Webster.

 

[gringo2011]

Sure.

By that token it’s rebuild complete then.

Nas Chito windy
Pou
Wilson
Tauru Travaglia.


There are your 4 drafts.

Except it seems a little short still for a rebuild. Because as it stands we aren’t contenders. We are still “building”

You've left a lot of players out of that pool.

Phillipou also came with Keeler, Caminiti and Stocker. Hammer looks set to play a lot of high level footy. Also got McLennan who probably struggles but still there too.

Wilson also came with Collard who right now looks like he will make at least a solid player. Hastie and Garcia who both look really high end, Shoenmaker who again has huge high end potential and also picked up O'Connell who looks likely to be be at least solid depth if not a good Webster replacement.

Trav/Tauru came with Barrat, Dodson, Said and Boxshall. All of them look promising. Also Carroll and Armstrong.

Even Nas, Chito, Windy's draft we got Sharman as well.

Not all will make the grade but you'd reckon we end up with around 6 high end players and a few GOPs out of that.

Before hand our list was predominantly GOPs.

Nas, Windy and Chito already look like they sit comfortably inside out top 10 this year. Nas in our top few. Phillipou looked ready to take on the comp at the end of last year and while Wilson is slightly down this season he looks absolutely blue chip off last year.

 

[gringo2011]

Aren't we only supposed to start contending after the free agency/trade influx - TDK, Bergman, Leek etc?

I think its perfectly fine if we are still building this year. Kids are still developing and finding their way at the top level

Next year though, there will be a lot less excuses with hopefully a fully fit King and Pou and third-year breakout contenders in Wilson, Collard, Hastie, Hugo, Arie

I think we should be eyeing of finals this year. Once we get through the first half of the season we should have a pretty good idea of where we sit. It's a soft year and I reckon there is a flag to win if we could get our shit together. Dogs and the Baby Bombers did it from where we are. We should set our sights at the absolute pinnacle, not look for a goldilocks time to rise.

 

[gringo2011]

And if we don’t land them we are still rebuilding?

Just trying to clarify opinions here. Because it’s either 4 drafts and a rebuild done or it’s draft as many times as possible and draft well until it ends up with us landing those free agents.

They aren’t a guarantee.

You don't just stop. You keep piling talent in and eventually the list gets super deep and crammed with talent. If we get FAs we should go to the draft with our high picks. If we don't we should go to the draft with our high picks. If we need them for a trade the target should be a need and young enough that there is 7 plus years of good footy left.

 

[gringo2011]

I don’t really truly care to argue this.

But gee spare a thought if you are Ratten and they are now calling his last draft the start of a rebuild and telling him he under performed.

Each to their own on the interpretation on this one.

Ratts did and didn't underperform. His on-field performance was fine but he was less great at the interpersonal stuff and his vision wasn't long term. He was a good game day coach and maximised what he had. He had better lists than Richo who was beige in every facet and left every little legacy.

To me the best part of Lyon was that he is an all encompassing force of nature. He was the architect of the footy department we have now. The club was told what they needed to give him and the club listened. Richo and Ratts were happy to keep their heads down and keep their jobs. You can't use austerity to improve your finances in a performance environment.

 

[Minga]

Ratts did and didn't underperform. His on-field performance was fine but he was less great at the interpersonal stuff and his vision wasn't long term. He was a good game day coach and maximised what he had. He had better lists than Richo who was beige in every facet and left every little legacy.

To me the best part of Lyon was that he is an all encompassing force of nature. He was the architect of the footy department we have now. The club was told what they needed to give him and the club listened. Richo and Ratts were happy to keep their heads down and keep their jobs. You can't use austerity to improve your finances in a performance environment.

Never change your dp Gringo, there's something about it which is just ineffably comforting, bless

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think we should be eyeing of finals this year. Once we get through the first half of the season we should have a pretty good idea of where we sit. It's a soft year and I reckon there is a flag to win if we could get our shit together. Dogs and the Baby Bombers did it from where we are. We should set our sights at the absolute pinnacle, not look for a goldilocks time to rise.

The whole idea of a "planned Premiership " is bullshit.
Just try to get yourself in a position where its possible to fluke one.
If you're languishing in the bottom 8 year after year that won't happen.