List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Train12]

We get TDK, we've extended RO's career. He will stay for the multiple premierships we are going to win next couple of years.

This!

 

[akaifu]

I am concerned that we are going to be paying a King's ransom for a Gawn/Grundy situation until big Ro retires.

Difference between comparisons to Darcy/LJ and Gawn/Grundy is that both Row and TDK can play forward

 

[Circus]

Would be great to have TDK. I'd let Ana de Armas cover me with honey and lick it off if it meant we could get him to the Saints

Yet another heroic sacrifice Sully. The torment you are prepared to endure on our behalf is inspiring!!

 

[SaintSteele9]

Would be great to have TDK. I'd let Ana de Armas cover me with honey and lick it off if it meant we could get him to the Saints

A man of culture, I see.

 

[Joffaboy]

Sounds like a Carlton itk has laid the facts down on what Saints and Carlton top end offers on the TDK trade thread.
Carlton won't go over 1.1 mill. Saints won't go over 1.7 mill
When asked if Wright will nuke the place to get the salary cap, he said they did that last year to sign up their big names.
Sounds like finally some rational facts from a Carlton insider and the other Carlton supporters on the thread have become a bit deflated and are up to the acceptance stage.

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[mad-saint-guy]

IMO, it’s about the team result rather than the individual performance.

I’d wager we stand taller and play better as a side with two genuine rucks. Marshall is excellent and more than adequate, but getting TDK as well? It becomes a point of strength. Shame we couldn’t snatch Xerri for a 3rd rounder.

We look vulnerable to teams when Marshall is resting. Can’t have that come the big time games, every moment matters.

I agree that we need a decent chop out in the ruck and I think with another pre season in the gym, Keeler will be perfectly capable of holding his own.

But I'm not sure that spending 2.5+ mil per year on Marshall and TDK is worthwhile. TDK and Marshall get pretty similar stats as the number one ruck. We could expect around 20 disposals, 30 hitouts, 5 marks 5 clearances and a goal.every other game from either of them playing 85% TOG in the ruck. With both of them playing, I would estimate the combined stats would be something like 32 disposals, 40 hitouts, 8 marks, 6 clearances and 1.5 goals per game if they shared ruck/forward duties.

So the question is, do we really want to spend 1.7 mil on an extra 10 disposals, 10 hitouts, 3 marks, 1 goal and 1 clearance per game when you could probably get that from a Keeler type for 300k per year? I do understand that he is younger than Marshall, but I don't see why Ro couldn't play for another 4 years.

There's also the fact that TDK is 25 and he's never played 20 games in a season. He's not a Max King level injury concern but he's no Wilkie either.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I am concerned that we are going to be paying a King's ransom for a Gawn/Grundy situation until big Ro retires.

Ro was drafted as a forward and has shown he can still play forward. Grundy is a lumbering tap ruck with little to no flexibility. Marshall and De Koning both fairly athletic and good in play after stoppages, De Koning has the better tap work though. I think it'll work well but I'll admit, 1.7 mil a year has me puckered a bit.

 

[gubby88]

Ro was drafted as a forward and has shown he can still play forward. Grundy is a lumbering tap ruck with little to no flexibility. Marshall and De Koning both fairly athletic and good in play after stoppages, De Koning has the better tap work though. I think it'll work well but I'll admit, 1.7 mil a year has me puckered a bit.

meh coin is coin...i trust the powers at be to get it all right

 

[gringo2011]

On Pou Trav Wilson and Tauru

Anyone who thinks Trav will be a ‘solid 150 game player) really doesn’t understand player development.

Travis weapons imo will make him an exceptional impactful player.

His marking running and competitiveness. These are things you can develop. Midfield craft and instincts can be developed the others not so much. In addition, in finals and big games they become more important. No doubt in my mind he will become a top 5 player for us.

Wilson - sane as above but we already know. Played a bad game last and still kicked a goal and had 20. Still want to see him on the rock but think he will be at Max Holmes’s level if not better.

How good is his goalkicking ability.

Tauru. I still think he would be an elite KPF but happy to let the club decide. Very simmilar tracking to Aaron Naughton in his 18th year. Just has something about him that makes footy look easy.

Pou - the big one
We saw his last month. It took hard work. We know the stats. Like Wilson and Trav I tend to think there is an invisible barrier of 30 disposals, once a player gets that it seems to break the seal. He almost got there a couple times.

His tackling and his marking became a weapon and his decision making not only improved but became an asset for his creativity. Lastly he started kicking goals as well. An absolute ripper against the crows and should have kicked three against the blues.

So excited to see where Pou can go.

Ultimately as I said in a prior thread.

The players we have who imo can genuinely be top 50 , top 20 and top 10 players

Top 10
Pou
King
Naz

Top 20
Taru
Wilson

Top 50
Owens
Keeler
Lance

My point is the potential and shown performance e of something of the guys already is awesome.

The rest is up to them and intangibles of competitiveness and inherent athleticism which all those guys have.

Calm down stackhat, I never said that that was his ceiling. Just his baseline is as a safe bet player. It was in comparison to Tauru who may be a bit higher risk but with the type of uncapped ceiling of guys like Bont and Fyfe. Trav might be the best of the lot but I think we took them with a bit of a safe bet and a sky's the limit type.

Not sure you understand much about anything to be honest. Nothing you have written in your essay contradicts anything I have posted. I was one of the few who rated Travaglia in the draft you naughty little disingenuous champignon.

 

[gringo2011]

You need to go to the doctors and get checked out. Or a jab or something.

I’d be really concerned on the prognosis if you are genuinely feeling compassion for that footy club and its fans.

Not real compassion, more feeling sorry for myself when I have to console the ****ers in my life. Feigning concern is very tiring.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Would be great to have TDK. I'd let Ana de Armas cover me with honey and lick it off if it meant we could get him to the Saints

 

[gringo2011]

Carlton since 1995 remind me a lot of St.kilda in the 20 years prior to 1995. Some big stars of the game playing for them, but just a poorly run club, bad decisions and lots of plodders. They are really wasting this generation of having some really really good players.

They are the opposite to us. They have a handful of elite stars ad a few more good players but then drop away quickly after that. Because we were never able to attract stars we have a handful of A graders and then a huge amount of B graders and talented kids behind them. Most of the B graders can play A grade games on their day so we are hard to stop and bat deep.

Lyon has the opposite problem from his last tenure where he has less absolute cream but a greater spread. Only time will tell if this is a better list for a challenge.

 

[g_TRAIN]

They are the opposite to us. They have a handful of elite stars ad a few more good players but then drop away quickly after that. Because we were never able to attract stars we have a handful of A graders and then a huge amount of B graders and talented kids behind them. Most of the B graders can play A grade games on their day so we are hard to stop and bat deep.

Lyon has the opposite problem from his last tenure where he has less absolute cream but a greater spread. Only time will tell if this is a better list for a challenge.

I still think they have a good list. For whatever reason, they’re playing a terrible brand.

Daniel Hoyne spoke about them and the fact that they’re not really shifting the ball off the line.

When they go fast, it’s in a straight line—which usually isn’t a brand that works for ball movement and scoring.

Interestingly, when they do shift the ball on angles, they actually play much better. It’s something they tend to do at the start of matches, but then drop away and revert to down-the-line stuff as the match goes on.

 

[chris_h_11]

Lyon has the opposite problem from his last tenure where he has less absolute cream but a greater spread.

So what you're saying is Lyon needs to create more cream?

I think Ana de Armas can help with that too....

 

[gringo2011]

I still think they have a good list. For whatever reason, they’re playing a terrible brand.

Daniel Hoyne spoke about them and the fact that they’re not really shifting the ball off the line.

When they go fast, it’s in a straight line—which usually isn’t a brand that works for ball movement and scoring.

Interestingly, when they do shift the ball on angles, they actually play much better. It’s something they tend to do at the start of matches, but then drop away and revert to down-the-line stuff as the match goes on.

They are doing everything but winning. Definitely seems mostly psychological at this point. They have good enough list to be a deep finals side. Not sure it's a flag side any more. Losing 2 good middlers has thinned them out a bit too.

 

[Joffaboy]

Calm down stackhat, I never said that that was his ceiling. Just his baseline is as a safe bet player. It was in comparison to Tauru who may be a bit higher risk but with the type of uncapped ceiling of guys like Bont and Fyfe. Trav might be the best of the lot but I think we took them with a bit of a safe bet and a sky's the limit type.

Not sure you understand much about anything to be honest. Nothing you have written in your essay contradicts anything I have posted. I was one of the few who rated Travaglia in the draft you naughty little disingenuous champignon.

I sort of like this analogy of a solid 150 game player.
That is Billings in a nutshell.
Now if Travaglia turned out to be a Billings, that would be a disappointment
However if we had Billings and Bont in the one draft, would we all be bemoaning Billings playing 170 AFL games.
Long way to go but if Travaglia did turn out to be Billings BUT Tauru turns out to be a Bont talent, will we complain?
BTW don't think Travaglia is anything like Billings, just a fun comparison of the Billings/Bont scenario.

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[Waiting for Godot]

So he got an infection inside his knee from a blister? Sounds like absolute bullshit.

I dare say it was an infection in his blood (the dreaded sepsis) that caused the initial infection to spread from the foot to the knee via the bloodstream. The same happened to me.

It’s very scary when they start talking amputation. It also comes on incredibly quickly. From feeling ok to nausea, general weakness and a raging temperature in a matter of minutes.

I really feel for Paddy. Just more bad luck for the poor bugger. Let’s hope he’s making a strong recovery and we see him back and playing good footy soon.

 

[Mowman]

Would be great to have TDK. I'd let Ana de Armas cover me with honey and lick it off if it meant we could get him to the Saints

The sacrifices you make for this club, hopefully they know how lucky they're to have you

 

[stavro#4]

Not real compassion, more feeling sorry for myself when I have to console the ****ers in my life. Feigning concern is very tiring.

Ok. Checks out.

You’re cleared.

 

[pebblesofsand]

So he got a infection inside his knee from a blister? Sounds like absolute bullshit.

Yeah I know - I was surprised to learn that the blood system is apparently interconnected.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I was under the impression he picked up a staph infection in hospital.

Nah infection from blisters - well thats what paddy said - unless he was lying to cover up the incompetence of the club or the doctor or whatever.

'I felt so crook': Shocking infection lands Saint in hospital

Paddy Dow spent three weeks in hospital over summer with a persistent infection, but had a surprise visitor on Christmas Day

www.afl.com.au

Dows ... knee swelled up again on December 19. It required draining at RSEA Park the following morning, where 120ml of greenish brown liquid was removed and signalled an alarm.

By that afternoon, Dow was in the emergency department of the Epworth Hospital in Richmond undergoing arthroscopic surgery.

Dow required two more rounds of surgery on Christmas Eve and December 28 from one of the AFL's go-to ACL surgeons, Professor Tim Whitehead, where he went under a general anaesthetic and had water pumped through the knee joint to eradicate the bacteria.

"I had blisters like every player, but that night after our last session they were pretty bad. On the Thursday I started getting a bit sick, felt feverish and the knee then blew up that night," Dow explained to AFL.com.au.

"I got a scan the next morning. 'Barbs' [Barbour] wanted to have a look and when he drained it the fluid was greenish brown. Usually if you drain a knee that's had an injury it is light blood or clear fluid; this was brown and he drained 120ml.

"I started to decline pretty quick that day. That afternoon I got taken to emergency and it went from there. On the Friday night, I had the first washout to try and get rid of all the bacteria and started the antibiotics."

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Yeah I know - I was surprised to learn that the blood system is apparently interconnected.


View attachment 2272019

 

[St Neil]

I hate that I'm feeling compassion for them.

The quickest way to overcome that is to cast your mind back to 1984 and the Scheme of Arrangements that saved St Kilda from bankruptcy.

Allan Jeans, who was Hawthorn coach at the time, rallied the past players to accept the Scheme so the club could continue to exist. They were the club’s largest number of creditors.

Carlton, who as a creditor was owed money for transfer fees, voted to wind St Kilda up rather than to accept the Scheme.

Never, ever, feel sorry for Carlton. Ever.

 

[St Neil]

If we get TDK I don’t think Ro retires a saints player.

I can see Marshall flourishing as a key forward with an occasional run on the ball.

 

[St Neil]

Sounds like a Carlton itk has laid the facts down on what Saints and Carlton top end offers on the TDK trade thread.
Carlton won't go over 1.1 mill. Saints won't go over 1.7 mill
When asked if Wright will nuke the place to get the salary cap, he said they did that last year to sign up their big names.
Sounds like finally some rational facts from a Carlton insider and the other Carlton supporters on the thread have become a bit deflated and are up to the acceptance stage.

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

It’s clear Carlton cannot go close to matching St Kilda’s offer.

It’s a simple decision for TDK. What discount in salary is he prepared to accept to re-sign with the Blues?

Unless he is receiving money in brown paper bags then TDK will surely choose Saints. Unless Carlton decides to trade-out a big name player and create more space in their salary cap.

But that leaves them even more chronically exposed to having a smaller cabal of overpaid players hogging their salary cap. I can’t see a smart operator like Graham Wright letting that happen.

It’s hard to see (at the moment) TDK rebuffing the Saints offer.

With Phillipou close to signing a new deal the final domino to fall will be NWM. And it’s likely that NWM must be impressed watching everyone else at the club recommitting going forward.

This can only further help to get TDK over the line. Especially if we can keep winning and Carlton keeps losing.