List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread

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BrutThough said:
Good from the club. Standing by our man and telling people not to listen to the noise the media is trying to make.

It's a slump. He will get through it.
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I would rather see some action out of the field, than papering over the cracks pretending he is playing decent footy.
 
stavro#4 said:
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damn right walter white GIF by Breaking Bad
 
CaptainRisky said:
Could be a good thing if he goes , looks miserable and its feeding through the whole group .
Even when he has 30 touches he is not hurting the opposition, i cant for the life of me remember the last time i saw him show some excitement
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Who needs a midfield? Hunter Clark and Dow are a dream team. Should finish last for another few years and proper crash rebuild I guess.
 

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SteeleSaints said:
I would rather see some action out of the field, than papering over the cracks pretending he is playing decent footy.
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Who is pretending he is playing a decent footy?

He has shown he can play but is currently going through a form slump .... happens to nearly all gun players
 
SteeleSaints said:
What a cluster faark when you have the captain of your club at odds with the coach and possibly others at the club...Where there is smoke there is fire I think we can have little doubt things are not great at Moorabbin
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Funny enough the same calls were made that the sky was falling when Port Adelaide traded out some big names for draft picks and brought in Butters and Rozee. Or as Hawthorn has done countless times when champions are appreciated but moved on as they will not bring the club the next flag.

I am with others who say that if a player does not want to be there, or the club decides that we gain maximum benefit from trading them, them off to the trade table they go.
 
SteeleSaints said:
I would rather see some action out of the field, than papering over the cracks pretending he is playing decent footy.
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No one has said he’s playing decent footy.

Plenty of players have gone through form slumps & struggled with injuries & have come out the other side better for it.


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Captain Paddy said:
Ross was literally hired because the standards of our playing list were absolutely Sh**house.

How else can a club have so many early picks across a 15 year period and still not amount to anything? Sure, maybe some of the picks were duds. But maybe the culture and development of the club allowed them to be duds.

We had guys walking in from the draft and getting gifted games off the bat. Their senior leader was Jarryn Geary, no disrespect to Gears but he's up there as one of the least talented captains in history. Hardworker maybe, but not one the younger guys really seemed to resepct.

If a player doesn't appreciate some honesty coming from Ross and they get upset and want out, I'll drive them to the bus stop.

We have been in nearly every game we've played this year. People can complain about the gameplan all they want. But teams struggle to score against us. We can score fine, we just have guys that F it up over and over. Whether it's a shank coming out of D50, spraying set shots or not making the distance off a 20m snap. That's not on Ross, that's not in the game plan.

We literally have a bottom 4 midfield in the league. It's farking atrocious what we dish up in there. Rozee, Butters and JHF all had good games and yet we only lost by 2 points.

This ship is going to turn quickly when we actually add 2-3 mids to our core of 25 and unders.

Anyone that wants to trade Max can get in on the lift to the bus stop btw. Are his leading patterns terrible? Absolutely but they weren't when he started, he use to charge at the ball, but I tell ya what, 5 years of charging at Seb Ross breaking free of congestion and then missing you by 20m would just about do my head in as well.

The kids had an ACL, 2 shoulder recos and an ankle and knee issue.

Dougal ****ed one of those shoulders by being an absolute clown at training. Bonner nearly gave him a second ACL the other week when he couldnt hit a 40m pass to him going back to goal.

Does he need to work harder and lead better? Yes. Is it going to be easier to lead and get the ball if our mids aren't Clark, Ross and co? Yes.

Finally, anyone complaining about Basset can also get in on the lift to the bus stop. We've had nothing but Humphrey B Bear inspired presidents for years. We've actually finally got one that ONLY cares about improving the club and the eveness of the comp (which directly relates to improving the club) and people are sooking about it.

WTH would anyone want the draft the way that it is? The guy isn't even calling to scrap the acadamies, he's just sick and tired of watching other teams get a Daicos, Darcy, insert any good GC player here for a bunch of picks in the 40's and 50's - it's a farking joke.

We should have that young bloke from Hawthorn as an NGA, but they changed the rules, the same rules that got the Dogs Jamara a couple of years before.


I am an unapologetic Ross man. If we actually let him set standards and make the boys become men, we will have a 5-6 year window to get the flag.

But if we keep pissing and moaning about a game plan or letting the media get away with their agendas we'll be back to being a complete joke for the next 30 years.
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Great commonsense post, thank you.

I'd take issue on the point you made about the younger players not respecting Geary; I'd agree he had little in the way of technical ability, but the players really respected his competitiveness and work ethic. I'd say the one thing our boys could do effectively then and maybe now was/is roll up the sleeves and dig in.

I'd say our problem is not one of work ethic, but belief. Lack of belief kills hunger, competitiveness and spirit. It has been a huge problem for our club over the years, and a huge advantage for clubs who have succeeded, they can fall back on that when times are tough and it is a virtuous circle fir them and a vicious circle for us.

It's probably the reason we made a point of trading for players and coaches from successful clubs:

Hill Ratten and Rath from the Hawks
Hanneberry and Jones from the Swans
Enright from the Cats
Butler and Higgins from the Tigers

All came with the belief instilled from they'd previous clubs and it has drained away slowly but surely by the following -

  • slack training,
  • scrappy and limp playing during games,
  • void leadership,
  • unfair umpiring, fixtures, and tribunal judgement
  • stagnant list management,

and perhaps most importantly

* a club with VERY LITTLE history of expectation based on a benchmark of success

Clubs like Carlton and Essendon have been utter irrelevances for a generation yet as soon as they show any promise, they start talking about who'll be the first club to 16 cups. Clubs like Hawthorn Geelong and Richmond can point to recent dynasties.

All we can do is gape and say "Wouldn't it be special to win a second ever cup?"

That's why Lyon talked at the start about being a coach who looks at possibilities, not probabilities.

(While I'm on Lyon, he's one of the reasons I had to edit the above point from "a club with NO history of expectation..." to "VERY LITTLE" - no, we didn't win the cup once under him, yes it was a different era, but he and GT are the ONLY coaches who have any experience of making the Saints great, feared and consistent. He was available, still has fire in the belly, and is actually a very good coach, whether or not you like his style.)

Back to belief:

A few years ago in the Ferguson - Benítez - Mourinho - Wenger era of the EPL, as a Liverpool fan, I saw as clear as day the difference between Man U and us. We went into games with the mindset "We can win this", whereas ManU's was "We will win this" and not WILL like "You WILL tidy your bedroom now, mister!" but WILL like "it will rain tonight" - expectation based on history; it's huge.

Of course clubs succeed without it, everyone has to at least once, but it's like an extra gun player.

Max has NO belief; any he gained as a junior has drained away by a mixture of playing against people his own size, injuries and little support from midfield or in the forward line, plus of course his cronic yips.

Steele has lost belief if he ever had any. The rest have been with us too long for belief to be sustained. All they can do is try.

How do you nurture sustain belief? I'm ****ed if I know but trading King Battle and Marshall won't give us the answer I know that much. I trust Ross to do it, it doesn't look like much at the moment but the Sistine Chapel probably looked pretty rubbish for the first few months too.

As fans, all we have is faith, but that is not at all the same as the belief I'm talking about.
 
StCicatriz said:
very interesting...

he's at his lowest value in a long time. lock him in IMO. best chance of getting a bargain. he's got the talent. its up to him and the club to get the best out of him.

i do worry about his development. somethings massively off this season. if it happens again next year, i'd be more inclined to points the finger at the senior coaching than the player IMO.
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He’s clearly playing hurt. Can’t run. Cant jump. Can’t give any 2nd efforts.

The fact that he had been able to do all of that & more previously suggests to me that that this is just a temporary thing.


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Winmar2Lockett said:
The way you keep talking it down, we’re looking at the weakest draft in history.


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No, it's got players and should have a spread of talent right through it but has very little stand out talent. Smilie who is meant to be pick one looks very average. The best player is probably Jagga too be honest. O'Sullivan maybe but only because he can't play to disappoint. I think Trainor looks the goods too.Draper, Reid, Gross types are all good even types but none are incredible.

To me the equivalent would be 2017. Heaps of duds and GOPs in the first round but talent right through to the 60s.

That draft Dylan Moore pick 67, Gryan Myers pick 57, Xerri 72, Meek 69, Switkowski 73, Guelfi 76, Zerk Thatcher 66, Worpel 45.

Dow, Stephenson, Clark, Coffield, O'Brien, Bonar, Brander, Ling, Powell, Coleman-Jones all first round picks.

Rayner an ordinary pick 1 but Brayshaw, LDU, Cerra, Max Bailey, Ed Richard and Naughton all good first rounders.

This draft gives that sort of vibe. Good depth but meh front end. Some of the best players probably come outside the first round.
 
They just said on the couch that King is on $1 million per season. Is this right? That would be significantly more than brownlow medalist Lachie Neale and All Australian Harris Andrews.
At this stage I would have him on $400k pa.
 

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gringo2011 said:
There are an actually quite a few talls that look okay now but you don't cash in your Rolls Royce because you keep filling it full of the wrong fuel. It;'s the system not the player. You can keep moving on all your good players hoping to find stars in the draft but it's easier to fix the coaching.
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That assumes no responsibility on King
That’s incorrect
The system will improve with a midfield
The club know this - getting one isn’t easy
We are 18 months into a total overhaul of football program cause the last 10 years have been a debacle and people want a new coach ?
Unbelievable
 
Lions Flag 2020 said:
They just said on the couch that King is on $1 million per season. Is this right? That would be significantly more than brownlow medalist Lachie Neale and All Australian Harris Andrews.
At this stage I would have him on $400k pa.
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Want to give us a run down on the contracts of Rayner, Cameron, Hipwood, etc? How much did you have to pay McBaggage to stay in Queensland?
 
ScrappyDo said:
This may be so but we've been a side with no backbone for a generation and building that is bloody hard work. They're drafting their arse off and taking the heat for losses whilst installing fight in those that can hack it. The piont being it puts us in with a shot one day and it's now or never with Tassie on the horizon.
We've had too many false dawns in the last decade. Supporters need to buckle in, or piss off and come back when things turn around.
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What a load of shit. You're suggesting another period of shitness as your time to shine while telling others to eat shit or **** off. Zero standards let them get away with 10 year stints for absolute imbeciles like Trout and Richo. If Ross Lyon doesn't perform we need to push him out just like we would if he was a no name coach.

If he causes list carnage we need to move him even quicker. Joe Biden probably wasn't demented once but he is now.
 
Lions Flag 2020 said:
They just said on the couch that King is on $1 million per season. Is this right? That would be significantly more than brownlow medalist Lachie Neale and All Australian Harris Andrews.
At this stage I would have him on $400k pa.
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Who cares what you think.

Why are you here polluting our board?
 
Teflon said:
That assumes no responsibility on King
That’s incorrect
The system will improve with a midfield
The club know this - getting one isn’t easy
We are 18 months into a total overhaul of football program cause the last 10 years have been a debacle and people want a new coach ?
Unbelievable
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Of course he has to work hard and is accountable but when ever other forward is shit as well you have to wonder where the issues lie.
 
Lions Flag 2020 said:
They just said on the couch that King is on $1 million per season. Is this right? That would be significantly more than brownlow medalist Lachie Neale and All Australian Harris Andrews.
At this stage I would have him on $400k pa.
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A top 10 pick in their first season would be on more than 400k. They added two years to extend Max's last contract so that must have included a big salary bump (assuming 1 mil is correct). Was around 750-800k before that I think. And we have a ridiculous amount of cap space so that 1 mil isn't impacting us like trying to fit Neale and McCluggage in.
 
Sunshine Sainter said:
Funny enough the same calls were made that the sky was falling when Port Adelaide traded out some big names for draft picks and brought in Butters and Rozee. Or as Hawthorn has done countless times when champions are appreciated but moved on as they will not bring the club the next flag.

I am with others who say that if a player does not want to be there, or the club decides that we gain maximum benefit from trading them, them off to the trade table they go.
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Hold on ....

Port got rid of Polec & Pittard (hardly guns) to North for Pick 11 which they in turn traded to Freo along with pick 23 & 30 to get pick 6

They then turned that pick 6 & two other dross picks into Sam Mayes & pick 5 (which they got Rozee with)

Butters was there standard pick due to their 2017 ladder finish

They traded Wingard (small forward) for Burton & pick 15 (turned into Dursmaa who has now left Port)

So they got rid of Polec Pittard & Wingard .... hardly an elite vanguard .... and last time I looked Port haven't won a recent Premiership and before the weekend sat outside the 8

As for the Hawks most of their gun trading is the other way where its not bringing in picks but rather trading out picks for players or nailing rhe draft with their given standard picks

Everitt, Burgoyne, Gibson, McEvoy, Gunston, Lake all brought in for picks traded out

One trade that they did strike gold with was Croad to Freo whereby they netted Pick 1 (Hodge) & pick 36 (Mitchell ... speculative pick) .... mainly cause a young Freo had no idea what they were doing ... eventually Hawks coughed up pick 10 to get Croad back

As for trading out other players for picks?

They traded Nathan Thompson to get pick 10 & 26 and then traded 10 & 37 to get pick 7 & Bo Nixon .... pick 7 ended up as Lewis .... Thompson was hardly what you would call a generation gun

Jonathan Hay & Nathan Lonie ...... each got a mid teen pick ..... Birchall & Max Bailey

So Croad / Thompson / Hay / Lonie .... all hardly champions .... granted they did get Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell & Birchall

As for their other great to good Premiership players ....

Franklin was a standard draft pick (5) Roughead was a hand out priority pick (2)
Cyril ... standard pick (12)
Hill ... standard pick (33)
Smith .... standard pick (19)
Stratton ... standard pick (46)
Shiels .... standard pick (34)
Puopolo ... standard pick (66)
Breust ... rookie pick
Sewell ... rookie pick
Suckling ... rookie pick
Guerra - PSD
Ellis ... hand out priority pick (3)

Add those to players they traded in for picks ... mentioned above

Hawks nailed more gun players via standard ladder position draft picks or trading in players/trading out picks than they did trading out players for picks
 
SaintyMcSaintface said:
A top 10 pick in their first season would be on more than 400k. They added two years to extend Max's last contract so that must have included a big salary bump (assuming 1 mil is correct). Was around 750-800k before that I think. And we have a ridiculous amount of cap space so that 1 mil isn't impacting us like trying to fit Neale and McCluggage in.
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Yep, his last contract (The one he's on now was an average of 750k per season)

That's pretty fair for what he was delivering and the potential he had showed when he signed the deal.
 
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