List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Ilovewindy]

Also not sure if anyone cares but Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

25

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

apparently just resigned on a $1.3m dollar contract with giants. Apparently north offered 1.6 and he genuinely considered it which was interesting. But yeah crosses him off the saints list

 

[botts]

I know we don’t have a draft thread but jagger smith had 50 touched today for oakleigh. Should be available at our pick

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I know we don’t have a draft thread but jagger smith had 50 touched today for oakleigh. Should be available at our pick

Start one if you want one.

 

[botts]

Start one if you want one.

No idea how to. You do it

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

With Battle. I feel like he's worth paying for to keep if we want and drive his price to a band 1 if we want say pick 4 or 5.
We have the cap space. We could find out what minimum is for band 1, make that the offer and then set the market for other offers above to trigger the compo we want. Why would he moved for a less attractive contract. Win win.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With Battle. I feel like he's worth paying for to keep if we want and drive his price to a band 1 if we want say pick 4 or 5.
We have the cap space. We could find out what minimum is for band 1, make that the offer and then set the market for other offers above to trigger the compo we want. Why would he moved for a less attractive contract. Win win.

It can be tricky, remembering that compensation was never meant to "drive" free agency.
Its the top 5% of the players which is around 40.
Its possible that you could make an offer, then have someone sign up the day before , pushing your offer out of contention.

 

[gubby88]

It can be tricky, remembering that compensation was never meant to "drive" free agency.
Its the top 5% of the players which is around 40.
Its possible that you could make an offer, then have someone sign up the day before , pushing your offer out of contention.

from what ive heard, all of Hawks, North and Pies have offered 1 million a year, which is band one

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

from what ive heard, all of Hawks, North and Pies have offered 1 million a year, which is band one

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Million-dollar men: AFL’s rich list reaches record number; Oliver joins match simulation

A record 19 AFL players earned more than $1 million last year thanks to the league’s titanic new pay deal – up from 12 footballers a season earlier and including eight who made $1.2 million-plus.

www.theage.com.au

 

[joydivision22]

This is our last chance to get value out of our old boys before they wither on the vine. I would sell Steele, Sinclair and Marshall for picks 2,3 &4 to add to our natural and likely pick 4. Wilkie captain in the interim. Hopefully north offer enough for Battle first round comp. Take 2,3,4,5,6 to the draft and build around king.

Might not be as grand an outcome as that but that is our road to the promised land

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Million-dollar men: AFL’s rich list reaches record number; Oliver joins match simulation

A record 19 AFL players earned more than $1 million last year thanks to the league’s titanic new pay deal – up from 12 footballers a season earlier and including eight who made $1.2 million-plus.

www.theage.com.au

yeah looks like it was nudging towards 900 000 in 2023.
Amazing that Battle is worth so much.

Also looks like the rank and file players are being held down to get the big shots in.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

yeah looks like it was nudging towards 900 000 in 2023.
Amazing that Battle is worth so much.

Also looks like the rank and file players are being held down to get the big shots in.

It is hard to believe. It's almost like we are talking about Pokemon now ffs.

 

[BrutThough]

from what ive heard, all of Hawks, North and Pies have offered 1 million a year, which is band one

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

If he's getting offers of a million, best of luck to you Battle.

We cant be matching that. He's not worth it.

 

[The Punter]

The AFL is structured nothing like american sports-

For starters it is literally a not for profit and therefore has tax exempt status.

If it went from 30% to 50% of the AFL's billion dollar revenue going to a lucky ~800 footballers (at the expense of that extra 20% going into grassroots programs etc)- there would (or should) be rioting in the streets.

They can get it closer to 50%. 35% would be closer and would represent a significant increase.

Until then, combined with the perversions of the draft (Father-Son, academies), we will continue to have the worst of the systems.

My structural proposals are (and have been for some time):

• increase the salary cap significantly
• abolish the father-son rule
• make free agency kick in earlier (so players aren't thinking about their football mortality at the same time as free agency - makes them more likely to take cash rather than sacrifice to win a premiership)

 

[Miha]

Still seems to be a fetish for full backs, hence the attention for Battle, though he’s an interceptor. So he probably gets us band 1. Trading a Marshall or Steele only work if we trade them to teams as shit as us?

 

[The Boar]

Love Battle, he is a gun but if he nets a Top 5 compo pick, thanks for your services Josh.

Compared to the Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

deal, Josh is worth every bit of that pay day and likewise, every bit of that Band 1 compo for us.

 

[Joffaboy]

We get pick 3, band 1 for Battle pick four, will be pushed back to picks 9 and 10 once the AFL booster clubs get their three free NGA's a year as per the AFL uneven playing field policy, unless of course you are Laura Kanes ex club who get free picks for deliberately destroying their list.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Punter]

I fail to see a realistic situation where we get band 1 for Battle, who isn't a 195cm+ lock down defender like Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

.

That's before I get to the idiocy of driving one of the blokes who has a crack to the airport...

All for a kid who could be OK if he ends up in the right environment.

More shirking of responsibility. It's future St Kilda's job to succeed, not present St Kilda.

 

[The_Steadier]

I fail to see a realistic situation where we get band 1 for Battle, who isn't a 195cm+ lock down defender like Ben McKay.

That's before I get to the idiocy of driving one of the blokes who has a crack to the airport...

All for a kid who could be OK if he ends up in the right environment.

More shirking of responsibility. It's future St Kilda's job to succeed, not present St Kilda.

What does 'succeed' look like with our current list (Ie present stkilda)?

I'd argue our current list succeeded to their maximum ability last year- scraping into the 8 and losing a first final.

You call that success?

I want to set the bar for what constitutes 'success' far higher than scraping into week 1 finals. I call that garbage success.

Our current list (present stkilda) are only capable of- at best, the kind of 'success' that I have no interest in.

The writing is on the wall- if we are willing to settle for garbage success for 5-10 years- then sure... lets not rock the boat much with list management and put it on 'present stkilda' to drive results.

But if you are interested in actual success- ie contending for flags....
then no amount of hoping/coaching/experience is going to bridge the immense talent gap our current list has (and always will have) between them and flag contenders.

 

[The Punter]

What does 'succeed' look like with our current list (Ie present stkilda)?

I'd argue our current list succeeded to their maximum ability last year- scraping into the 8 and losing a first final.

You call that success?

I want to set the bar for what constitutes 'success' far higher than scraping into week 1 finals. I call that garbage success.

Our current list (present stkilda) are only capable of- at best, the kind of 'success' that I have no interest in.

The writing is on the wall- if we are willing to settle for garbage success for 5-10 years- then sure... lets not rock the boat much with list management and put it on 'present stkilda' to drive results.

But if you are interested in actual success- ie contending for flags....
then no amount of hoping/coaching/experience is going to bridge the immense talent gap our current list has (and always will have) between them and flag contenders.

There is only one definition of success: a premiership. I think we are on the same page there, as would many of the long suffering.

But I'm on an island where I believe the improvement MUST come from.

North Melbourne have something many, many top 10 picks on their list, yet haven't won a game. Is this only because they are young? If so, they only have to get older and they will succeed by the "the solution is the draft" logic.

Max King was pick 4. Do we just need five of him? Or do we need the one Max King we have now to get better, and those whose job it is to ensure he improves to meet their objectives?

Any explanation that the solution lies outside what is currently inside the club is an abrogation of responsibility by those currently inside the club. It is an attitude that simply does not reside inside Geelong and Sydney, who simply do not accept any one inside the club not improving.

The players we have now need to get better. It is literally what you and I and every other member are paying them for. Tex Walker got better in his 30s. "This is as good as we can do with this group" is loser mentality. Success is a choice.

 

[sammm]

Think you’ll find that opposite is true.. We have 25+ players out of contract at the end of the year, this is intentional.. to guage who can make it and who won’t or wants out.. You can easily see another 10+ names being replaced.. Just on top of my head

Delisted - Allison, Campbell, Heath, Jones, Paton
Traded - Howard, Membrey, Ross, Webster
FA - Battle
This is before losing one of the supposed stars in Marshall or Steele

SoS might do his 3 for 1 deals with GWS / Suns again, picking up some unloved youngsters wanting games, we hit the draft hard picking up some genuine mids, then wait for FA next couple of years..

But absolute no point in keeping players like Howard, Ross, Webster, Jones where they can’t even be relied up on to week in week out to perform their roles.

How about Heath? still think we should give him another year he is still pretty young for a ruckman.

 

[The_Steadier]

There is only one definition of success: a premiership. I think we are on the same page there, as would many of the long suffering.

But I'm on an island where I believe the improvement MUST come from.

North Melbourne have something many, many top 10 picks on their list, yet haven't won a game. Is this only because they are young? If so, they only have to get older and they will succeed by the "the solution is the draft" logic.

Max King was pick 4. Do we just need five of him? Or do we need the one Max King we have now to get better, and those whose job it is to ensure he improves to meet their objectives?

Any explanation that the solution lies outside what is currently inside the club is an abrogation of responsibility by those currently inside the club. It is an attitude that simply does not reside inside Geelong and Sydney, who simply do not accept any one inside the club not improving.

The players we have now need to get better. It is literally what you and I and every other member are paying them for. Tex Walker got better in his 30s. "This is as good as we can do with this group" is loser mentality. Success is a choice.

I hear what you're saying- but you are oversimplifying I believe by saying us looking for new major additions to the current list (via top draft picks) is tantamount to us outsourcing responsibility for our destiny.

We can (like many flag winning teams have done) do both- take responsibility internally AND look outside for 'messiahs' to take us to the promise land.

The pies did it- racking off stephenson trelor etc and bringing in key newbies.

The dees did it bringing in may, lever etc.

Plenty of other examples im sure too.

Sitting on your hands and not making big scary list mgt calls is just as dangerous to flag prospects as making big calls that don't work.

Looking outside for major parts of getting to a flag winning list can be done at the same time as taking internal responsibility for major improvement.
It's not one or the other.

 

[The Punter]

I hear what you're saying- but you are oversimplifying I believe by saying us looking for new major additions to the current list (via top draft picks) is tantamount to us outsourcing responsibility for our destiny.

We can (like many flag winning teams have done) do both- take responsibility internally AND look outside for 'messiahs' to take us to the promise land.

The pies did it- racking off stephenson trelor etc and bringing in key newbies.

The dees did it bringing in may, lever etc.

Plenty of other examples im sure too.

Sitting on your hands and not making big scary list mgt calls is just as dangerous to flag prospects as making big calls that don't work.

Looking outside for major parts of getting to a flag winning list can be done at the same time as taking internal responsibility for major improvement.
It's not one or the other.

That's fine, and every list turns over spots every year, and every club tries to do they best they can with those changes.

Battle's one of the guys who provides external indications he doesn't like to lose. Let's let him walk.

Marshall smiles all the time and isn't Simon Madden (little hint: we've already seen the last great AFL tap ruckman retire). He'll get us three more Max Kings.

I'm not calling us to sit on our hands. But not caring about the internal improvement of the players we have at the moment, who all have talent or otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted at all, is sitting on your hands until the season is completed. Meanwhile that talent goes backwards, gets used to losing, develop mental habits that make it easier to deal with failing, and entrenches an ongoing cycle of failure.

All the time, every long suffering St Kilda supporter, who all DESERVE to see their team win a premiership, gets older while Sydney and Geelong and Collingwood and Western Bulldogs and Richmond and Melbourne supporters all get to see their droughts end.

I've had enough of waiting for that final piece. Do it now - it's what I'm paying them for.

 

[The_Steadier]

That's fine, and every list turns over spots every year, and every club tries to do they best they can with those changes.

Battle's one of the guys who provides external indications he doesn't like to lose. Let's let him walk.

Marshall smiles all the time and isn't Simon Madden (little hint: we've already seen the last great AFL tap ruckman retire). He'll get us three more Max Kings.

I'm not calling us to sit on our hands. But not caring about the internal improvement of the players we have at the moment, who all have talent or otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted at all, is sitting on your hands until the season is completed. Meanwhile that talent goes backwards, gets used to losing, develop mental habits that make it easier to deal with failing, and entrenches an ongoing cycle of failure.

All the time, every long suffering St Kilda supporter, who all DESERVE to see their team win a premiership, gets older while Sydney and Geelong and Collingwood and Western Bulldogs and Richmond and Melbourne supporters all get to see their droughts end.

I've had enough of waiting for that final piece. Do it now - it's what I'm paying them for.

I don't think anyone currently at the club is considering doing what you are proposing and going scorched earth- ditching the likes of marshall and battle for whatever we can get for them in a firesale for anyone/everyone over 26.

But if our best shot at a flag is not until the likes of owens, wilson, nas, windy etc have 100+ games under their belt- then we'd be idiots to not at least consider entertaining letting 1 or 2 (at most) of the likes of steele, marshall, sinclair go if we got a fantastic return on them (ie top draft picks and/or elite young talent)

 

[The Punter]

I don't think anyone currently at the club is considering doing what you are proposing and going scorched earth- ditching the likes of marshall and battle for whatever we can get for them in a firesale for anyone/everyone over 26.

But if our best shot at a flag is not until the likes of owens, wilson, nas, windy etc have 100+ games under their belt- then we'd be idiots to not at least consider entertaining letting 1 or 2 (at most) of the likes of steele, marshall, sinclair go if we got a fantastic return on them (ie top draft picks and/or elite young talent)

There are plenty around these parts advocating letting Battle walk and trading Marshall.

Three more seasons of this and we will be talking about how wasted the careers of Owens, Wilson, NWM and Windy have been.

Talent is a promise. Performance should be demanded of all.

 

[sammm]

No idea how to. You do it

hi botts

here is how.

add a prefix if you want, add a thread title