I think it is more about getting the best value out of a very talented pick 8. You can find defenders more easily. Talented 197cm players with elite skills need to be played in more important positions on the ground
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Wow, if that's all you took out of my post, probably not worth continuing the conversation.
OccamsRazorRay
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Our avg Inside 50 metric has gone from 5th best in the AFL last year, to 5th worst this year. Not to mention no Thilthorpe and Tex either not there, or playing injured. Even in the last game there was only 35 I50 entries, with no other recognised KPF's other than himself (sorry Borlase doesn't count) and he still managed to snag a few goals. I think we'll see him given a bit more freedom up the ground when TT and Tex are back.
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You didn’t love it when I suggested it weeks ago, I’m hurt
To my eye he's been played 90% as a key forward where his job is to take pack marks, 10% ruck and 0% anywhere else.
WaynesWorld19
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Give me your quote ....I'll give it a like .....this is such an event
Been thinking a bit about our list and what it needs, and realistically, it's
- Run, rebound, distribution off half back. Hinge is ok, Milera if he plays is ok, Worrell is nice. But most good sides have a weapon. Bailey Dale, Dan Houston, Jayden Short, NWM. Missing Redman last year hurt. These are easy to find, often re-purposing failed forwards from other clubs even. Isaac Cumming could be gettable, you'd think. He's solid.
- A competent ruck to replace ROB. These can be found relatively cheaply through the ruck merry-go-round -
Nick Bryan, Nick Madden, Ned Moyle, and Dante Vistentini (if we're feeling ambitious) all would be an upgrade on what we have and behind an incumbent, Max Knobel at Freo, Max Heath at StK, Oscar Steene at Coll some project types with a couple years of development but probably need a couple more.
- A more dynamic & modern midfield. Soligo's a start as that budget Butters/Daicos type, Dawson works given the amount of boxes he ticks, Rankine's the impactor - but you need a fourth/fifth option, especially given it'd allow Dawson to be versatile & Rankine to impact forward. Crouch is a stop gap and 29, Laird is done, and Schoenberg/Berry aren't it. Maybe it's Dowling/Pedlar. But we need more.
The forward line isn't the biggest concern - Rachele comes good. Rankine spends some time down there. Thilthorpe will at worst be fine. Pedlar if he doesn't turn into a mid worst case is dynamic down there. Cook if he doesn't end up a handy winger/half back will be a nice enough target in time. Keays is painful, but also performs a hard role to a reasonable standard. Fog is also painful but if he's as bad as it gets down there, we're fine. Prioritise elsewhere.
The one I'd love to see is try and snag is Alex Davies from Gold Coast. He was a first round talent but got onto their list via a pre-draft concession, so doesn't have the tag. 193cm mid. Just turned 22. Big bodied mids take time, we know that. He's stuck behind Rowell, Anderson & Touk, with Humper coming along, Rogers & Graham just drafted, and Lombard the wizard coming along this year too. There's a clear reality where Davies is actually a genuinely good player, but just doesn't get a look in due to only being 'eh' forward.
Always played low TOG, always had high fwd splits, but the kid has some real attributes. Great size, but not lumbering for it. Super good extractor, great hands, tackles hard and well, competitive & cracks in. Solid overhead. Would be a real point of difference for us - replacing what Crouch does, but potentially in a more dynamic way. Probably the one cheaper/gettable guy I reckon would be worth a real look - because finding mids who are difference makers is bloody hard.
- Run, rebound, distribution off half back. Hinge is ok, Milera if he plays is ok, Worrell is nice. But most good sides have a weapon. Bailey Dale, Dan Houston, Jayden Short, NWM. Missing Redman last year hurt. These are easy to find, often re-purposing failed forwards from other clubs even. Isaac Cumming could be gettable, you'd think. He's solid.
- A competent ruck to replace ROB. These can be found relatively cheaply through the ruck merry-go-round -
Nick Bryan, Nick Madden, Ned Moyle, and Dante Vistentini (if we're feeling ambitious) all would be an upgrade on what we have and behind an incumbent, Max Knobel at Freo, Max Heath at StK, Oscar Steene at Coll some project types with a couple years of development but probably need a couple more.
- A more dynamic & modern midfield. Soligo's a start as that budget Butters/Daicos type, Dawson works given the amount of boxes he ticks, Rankine's the impactor - but you need a fourth/fifth option, especially given it'd allow Dawson to be versatile & Rankine to impact forward. Crouch is a stop gap and 29, Laird is done, and Schoenberg/Berry aren't it. Maybe it's Dowling/Pedlar. But we need more.
The forward line isn't the biggest concern - Rachele comes good. Rankine spends some time down there. Thilthorpe will at worst be fine. Pedlar if he doesn't turn into a mid worst case is dynamic down there. Cook if he doesn't end up a handy winger/half back will be a nice enough target in time. Keays is painful, but also performs a hard role to a reasonable standard. Fog is also painful but if he's as bad as it gets down there, we're fine. Prioritise elsewhere.
The one I'd love to see is try and snag is Alex Davies from Gold Coast. He was a first round talent but got onto their list via a pre-draft concession, so doesn't have the tag. 193cm mid. Just turned 22. Big bodied mids take time, we know that. He's stuck behind Rowell, Anderson & Touk, with Humper coming along, Rogers & Graham just drafted, and Lombard the wizard coming along this year too. There's a clear reality where Davies is actually a genuinely good player, but just doesn't get a look in due to only being 'eh' forward.
Always played low TOG, always had high fwd splits, but the kid has some real attributes. Great size, but not lumbering for it. Super good extractor, great hands, tackles hard and well, competitive & cracks in. Solid overhead. Would be a real point of difference for us - replacing what Crouch does, but potentially in a more dynamic way. Probably the one cheaper/gettable guy I reckon would be worth a real look - because finding mids who are difference makers is bloody hard.
Great call - need to be surgically targeted in our recruiting and I do think he would tick all of the boxes we're looking and we can give him the one thing he can't get at the Suns...opportunity.
WaynesWorld19
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Agree re all this .....so you ask why he isn't getting games, or dropped after a few games ......he's not quick, and his disposal is woeful
Has a great attitude & fair dinkum dip .....but the negatives will see him struggle to get a consistent game in midfields demanding speed and good disposal
It's a similar situation to why Will Brodie isn't getting a game at FREO ....that guy can certainly find the ball
Adding to this, 7th rated key forward in the game this year (similar to Treacy and Hogan who are both having fantastic seasons).
I would rather develop MM into our next tall and big bodied midfielder, need to persist for the rest of this season and train him there full time over Summer.
Rankine is also a top 5 player in the league, he's more than an impactor.
Dawson, Soligo, Rankine, MM, Dowling and Taylor (maybe Pedlar) is finally a midfield developing quality depth and will benefit massively from a top 5 pick in this years draft (e.g. Draper) and a better ruck. Still not against going after someone like Davies though given it won't cost much.
Re: the midfield - fair to say IMO that there’s currently two gaps, when it comes to the medium-to-long term
Dawson (primary ball user through the middle, can be moved fwd or back if need, Bont-type)
Soligo (classy, creative smaller mid developing his power and strength in the contest)
Rankine (electric mid/fwd in Bolton mold, but better)
?
?
What’s missing? IMO there’s two qualities lacking - genuine ball-winning and clearance-winning, and speed. Ideally you’d like at least one of these guys to be on the tall side but it’s not exactly a must
Can, say, Taylor eventually fill the extractor role, whilst being evebtually more dynamic than Crouch/Laird? IMO absolutely, needs to be given opportunity soon though. The speed part is a bit trickier, though - maybe drafting Draper for a bit of genuine burst is the answer here? Not sure there’s anyone currently on our list who could fill the void
I’ll be honest, I can’t see too many options that would fill either of these holes that could be available for trade this year. I like Davies, and he’d probably be worth a shot, but will he become an elite ball-winner if/when given the opportunity? Hard to say
Dawson (primary ball user through the middle, can be moved fwd or back if need, Bont-type)
Soligo (classy, creative smaller mid developing his power and strength in the contest)
Rankine (electric mid/fwd in Bolton mold, but better)
?
?
What’s missing? IMO there’s two qualities lacking - genuine ball-winning and clearance-winning, and speed. Ideally you’d like at least one of these guys to be on the tall side but it’s not exactly a must
Can, say, Taylor eventually fill the extractor role, whilst being evebtually more dynamic than Crouch/Laird? IMO absolutely, needs to be given opportunity soon though. The speed part is a bit trickier, though - maybe drafting Draper for a bit of genuine burst is the answer here? Not sure there’s anyone currently on our list who could fill the void
I’ll be honest, I can’t see too many options that would fill either of these holes that could be available for trade this year. I like Davies, and he’d probably be worth a shot, but will he become an elite ball-winner if/when given the opportunity? Hard to say
WaynesWorld19
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I still think people are underestimating Pedlar ....he, Rankine, Soligo, and Dawson are a great combo of speed, aggression, and skills
No one questions Pedlar's aggression and ball-winning, it's just his kicking which is way off the mark.
WaynesWorld19
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IMO his disposal goes hand in hand with his form .....it's not a technical issue
Why he's not getting games?
Sometimes it really is more simple than 'player must be bad'. Of course, often it is - Will Brodie, Jackson Hately etc.
Tom Mitchell didn't get games at Sydney because they were stacked in his role. Sheldrick enjoys the same fate now. Jack Steele wasn't a regular at GWS for that same reason.
Ollie Wines looks like a shell of a player when on the wing/forward flank, but whenever he goes back inside, even now, he's great and would be at another club. But near droppable off a flank. Crisp looked a shell of himself as he lost mid time, but now he's got it back with their shortages and we realise he's still the same player.
They're not going to drop Miller, Rowell or Anderson. For them to move Anderson to a wing to accomodate a player, they'd have to be not that much worse than Anderson to justify it. It's a high bar. You need a second position - especially if it's a side with such a tight mid rotation. The role he plays in the midfield would be much more akin to Rowell's (with a shade of Anderson) too, and it's not like Rowell has a second position.
I think Davies is a bit different to Brodie (but do get the comparison - both tall, big bodied, inside only guys who are low TOG). Brodie's just slow. Both in his top speed and just general movement. Davies is a much more dynamic mover. Makes a big difference. I don't think Davies is slow either - but not sure on his tank & whether that'll impact ground coverage. GC rotations are always weird so hard to tell whether the low TOG is based on role or tank. I'm not saying he's a guarantee, but definitely worth a hit I reckon - much higher % than the average speccy type.
Agree his disposal is ordinary but Fyfe, Dangerfield, Anderson to think of a few are/were top echelon players in spite of it. Even Rozee's an ordinary kick and a jet. Taranto and Green are butchers but still add value to their side. Cripps has improved, but was dominant even when he was a dud kick. Rowbottom now and Steele historically were some of the stronger defensive mids in the league with dreadful disposal.
I agree, but he's doing this as a key forward. It's why it only happens occasionally.
It's why I want him playing a role that's not as a key forward.
Last year vs the Swans (R23) Pedlar came on as the sub and his presence in the middle was one of the main reasons we nearly came back from 30+ points down. This year vs the Swans he can't get a game due to injury/form/coaching. I'm still confident he's a big part of our future.
WaynesWorld19
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This is all true ....Davies played 3 consecutive games this year, 9,10, and 11 .....his best TOG was 60%
I can't remember who was bumped out of the rotations, Touk I think ....but Davies played Midfield
Do you think Davies has a 2nd position option in him ?
WaynesWorld19
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He's a momentum changer
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Now in his 7th season, we're patient supporters
Nobody was really bumped out, he just got the time that the relief guys do. Rowell 80% on the season, 82% in that period. Anderson 83% on the season, 80% in that period. Touk 69% on the season, 63% in that period.
Just coincided with Will Graham (45%) being dropped, after Flanders (49%) performed that role before Graham came in.
Not really with a second position, but not many of his role do. It's the limitation of those big bodied extractors. This year Davies went at 42% CBAs from 49% TOG in his three game spell, so most of his time was spent in the guts. I reckon going at 12.6 touches, 8.3 tackles (of which 2.3 were inside 50) & 3 clearances over 49% TOG is pretty nifty when you're not a big banana.
In previous seasons he's gone 2023 70% TOG, 26% CBAS (so 44% of the match he'd be out of the midfield), 2022 62% TOG/23% CBA so 39% of the match he'd be out of the mids. So has spent time fwd for them in the past.
Not having a second position hasn't stopped us from putting Schoenberg or Berry forward for minimal to mediocre results.
He's looked eh when he played forward early career. Not good, but not a complete waste either - height/tackling pressure counts for something and had the ability to create a moment.
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So Rowey was saying today Crows and Port could have rookied 4 players each, we chose only Welsh and Port Logan Evans who has been named for his first game against Brisbane.
Why wouldn’t we have grabbed more?
Why wouldn’t we have grabbed more?
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Looks almost certain the AFL will make significant changes to the draft this year, just in time for Welsh to be more expensive!
Discount will go, being able to match is sufficient reward, points scale shortened so picks after 40 don't have points attached. It will affect us but not damagingly so.
Discount will go, being able to match is sufficient reward, points scale shortened so picks after 40 don't have points attached. It will affect us but not damagingly so.
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