List Mgmt. 2024 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Im more so saying Parfitt to fill that contested role which should be ADDED to the current mix. that role should be a given. Mills will be the extra who should replace Guldens midfield minutes, who tbh i don't fully agree is and all and out contested beast.

Parfitt is simply put a list clogger, complete waste of time and resources. Why clog your list when you can take a rookie pick save cash. We need as much cash as possible to throw at Chad. Mills best year was his AA year as a genuine insider midfielder.

 

[bedford]

Pre-dates the USA. First known use 1727, from the Dutch "rooster", basically ruled/grid paper for a list.

It's NOT what we say in Aussie Rules . 1727 lol

 

[Kiama Chris]

We simply can not start one of Warner or Gulden in our first centre bounce of the year if we want to have any hope of the midfield improving.

Warner occasionally but agree re Gulden.
Want to see:
Mills OR Heeney big body
Rowbottom OR Sheldrick (if fit, Cleary if not) defensive
Attacking mid Heeney OR Warner OR Jordon?
Mix and match.

 

[Bloods86]

Im more so saying Parfitt to fill that contested role which should be ADDED to the current mix. that role should be a given. Mills will be the extra who should replace Guldens midfield minutes, who tbh i don't fully agree is and all and out contested beast.

Gulden was at only about a third of centre bounces, it's Warner that needs replacing moreso (at two-thirds). Mills, Sheldrick, Adams if he plays and Warner to still get some CBs in 2nd halves as that's usually when he wakes up. Gulden wing only.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Gulden was at only about a third of centre bounces, it's Warner that needs replacing moreso (at two-thirds). Mills, Sheldrick, Adams if he plays and Warner to still get some CBs in 2nd halves as that's usually when he wakes up. Gulden wing only.

Warner needs to not go near the centre bounce till the second half like he does anything in the first half anyway

 

[Kiama Chris]

Gulden was at only about a third of centre bounces, it's Warner that needs replacing moreso (at two-thirds). Mills, Sheldrick, Adams if he plays and Warner to still get some CBs in 2nd halves as that's usually when he wakes up. Gulden wing only.

Warner is good for second hands and breakaway once someone else has gotten first hands on the ball. During the first part of the season that was Heeney because of Grundy but in the second half Grundy fell away and Heeney couldn't get it as cleanly so neither could Warner.
I'm hoping Mills can allow Heeney to get a better look at the ball more often and dish the ball more effectively. Rowy, Sheldrick, maybe Adams can lay the blocks and make some tackles when we don't get first hands.
Gulden running past for second or third hands on one side, McInerney on the other.

 

[Bloods86]

Warner needs to not go near the centre bounce till the second half like he does anything in the first half anyway

Happy for him to be on the receiving end and take running shots from/around 50. Not the worst mark for his size. Get him doing tackling/2nd effort drills all summer. Then play him at half forward, with Sheldrick and Heeney at times that 3rd outside mid alongside Rowy, Mills. Bring him in for a few late qtr CBs if needed, but moreso 2nd half, where Heeney can be spelled up forward.

 

[bedford]

GD

 

[Cadsky]

GD

Good day to you too, sir.

 

[BloodySwan]

I looked over Parfitt's last 5 years. Comparing his CBA to centre clearances he would perform about as well as Green if he keeps the same numbers. I'll take that

 

[caesar88]

Warner occasionally but agree re Gulden.
Want to see:
Mills OR Heeney big body
Rowbottom OR Sheldrick (if fit, Cleary if not) defensive
Attacking mid Heeney OR Warner OR Jordon?
Mix and match.

I don't think we can afford to have 'attacking mids' or 'defensive mids'. We aren't good enough at winning hard ball and clearances to waste a midfield spot on one-dimensional roles. It leaves us one man short nearly every time.

I think we need three mids in there at all times who are all balanced, can win a hard ball or clearance or burst from a stoppage but can also block, tackle etc. when required. I think that has to be Heeney, Rowbottom, Mills & Sheldrick, for the simple reason that I don't know who else it would be.

I really think this is what we need to make our midfield harder to play against, and, importantly, harder to plan against. We need to throw all our weapons against teams so they don't know which one will get them. For all the talk about how amazing our midfield was this year (the dumbest discourse I have ever seen from the media, and that is saying something), teams knew Warner wasn't gonna get them in the contest, because he often had one foot out of it, and they knew Rowbottom wasn't gonna get them, because he'd often be occupied with defensive blocking. So they knew it was going to be Heeney who they needed to stop, and teams started doing it to greater effect. We literally gave our opposition the predictable, one-dimensional midfield they wanted when playing us.

 

[mcs095]

I want to see players, like Francis, who are just there but not quite good enough out of our squad. Ladhams & Francis are both not good enough. Let's develop the young guys. Edwards has proven to be a pretty good player. Green needs more ruck time. I am astounded they decided on retaining Ladhams over Big Mac. In his only game last season he had 10 HO, 6 Dis & 2 Marks, 2 tackles. Not just disappointing terrible. In 2023, Big Mac played 2 games. He had 27 HO, 12 dis, 2 marks & 6 tackles.

I do not think our younger players are developing as they should be. We drafted 2 small forwards in the same draft, Konstanty & Magor (a Rookie). Both have now gone. Magor was played at half back. Konstanty was always injured. We drafted a small forward/mid in the mid season draft, Tom Hanily, will they play him at Full Back? I just don't get why we draft for a need & then don't play them there. We needed to have a small small forward ready to go this year when both Papley & Wicks were out. But there was nobody. Hanily had only just got to the club & was still 18, so a prospect not a ready made player. Konstanty was out & Magor was playing HB. I was stunned by some of the players, even the VFL squad, that were playing in the backs. Some had probably never played there.

I know there is a need in the modern game to be flexible but there are certain positions, and players, for whom this doesn't work. I mean, would you stick Paps in the back pocket? Or Isaac at FB?

Look Ladhams is bang average, but McAndrew showed absolutely minimal progress this season, especially in the 'around the ground' aspects of his role. All he would do now is clog Green for opportunities - you couldn't keep both. And if heaven forbid, Grundy was out for an extended period, it would have been a massive call to have Big Mac as next in line.

Hopefully with Truslove going and McVeigh incoming as coach, some of the utterly bonkers decision making related to the VFL team will improve.

 

[Kbroome]

CBA mix from this season including the GF: Just looked at the CBAs in the first quarter and Gulden attended 5 out of 8 centre bounces. That is just not good enough imo he should be sitting at like 20% because he is a bloody winger. Need to have a main midfield of Heeney Rowbottom, Warner & Sheldrick with Gulden, Mills and Papley around the 10-20% marker

 

[LukeParkerno1]

CBA mix from this season including the GF: Just looked at the CBAs in the first quarter and Gulden attended 5 out of 8 centre bounces. That is just not good enough imo he should be sitting at like 20% because he is a bloody winger. Need to have a main midfield of Heeney Rowbottom, Warner & Sheldrick with Gulden, Mills and Papley around the 10-20% marker

I’m warning to playing Warner as a high half forward for the majority. Put Mills in for Warner and that’s my mix too.Mills and Sheldrick to be the true insides with Rowy your defensive mid. Heeney the 1 off the ruck mid.

 

[Bloods86]

CBA mix from this season including the GF: Just looked at the CBAs in the first quarter and Gulden attended 5 out of 8 centre bounces. That is just not good enough imo he should be sitting at like 20% because he is a bloody winger. Need to have a main midfield of Heeney Rowbottom, Warner & Sheldrick with Gulden, Mills and Papley around the 10-20% marker

Substitute Warner for Mills, take Gulden out of the equation and have Florent or Campbell in there for 10-20% instead of Errol and Paps, and you've got my vote.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I don't think we can afford to have 'attacking mids' or 'defensive mids'. We aren't good enough at winning hard ball and clearances to waste a midfield spot on one-dimensional roles. It leaves us one man short nearly every time.

I think we need three mids in there at all times who are all balanced, can win a hard ball or clearance or burst from a stoppage but can also block, tackle etc. when required. I think that has to be Heeney, Rowbottom, Mills & Sheldrick, for the simple reason that I don't know who else it would be.

I really think this is what we need to make our midfield harder to play against, and, importantly, harder to plan against. We need to throw all our weapons against teams so they don't know which one will get them. For all the talk about how amazing our midfield was this year (the dumbest discourse I have ever seen from the media, and that is saying something), teams knew Warner wasn't gonna get them in the contest, because he often had one foot out of it, and they knew Rowbottom wasn't gonna get them, because he'd often be occupied with defensive blocking. So they knew it was going to be Heeney who they needed to stop, and teams started doing it to greater effect. We literally gave our opposition the predictable, one-dimensional midfield they wanted when playing us.

The ironic part of it is we've always been poor on the midfield defensive transition despite allocating the block. Purely comes down to not focussing on all players winning the ball. Win the ball enough and you won't need to defend as much.

If that focus doesn't change then Mills will change nothing. He was a symptom of the exact same downfall even in his AA year.

This is where I think someone like Parfitt would be valuable. Can't help but feel Rowbum would be limited in that aspect, sheldrick doesn't have a body of work, and Adam's doesn't play big minutes. Nothing wrong in bringing in an out of favour mid if that players strength aids that new focus of winning the pill.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I looked over Parfitt's last 5 years. Comparing his CBA to centre clearances he would perform about as well as Green if he keeps the same numbers. I'll take that

aye!

 

[caesar88]

The ironic part of it is we've always been poor on the midfield defensive transition despite allocating the block. Purely comes down to not focussing on all players winning the ball. Win the ball enough and you won't need to defend as much.

If that focus doesn't change then Mills will change nothing. He was a symptom of the exact same downfall even in his AA year.

This is where I think someone like Parfitt would be valuable. Can't help but feel Rowbum would be limited in that aspect, sheldrick doesn't have a body of work, and Adam's doesn't play big minutes. Nothing wrong in bringing in an out of favour mid if that players strength aids that new focus of winning the pill.

Yes it is really quite baffling with our set-ups how Horse can look at them and think we are going to end up with the ball.

FWIW I think you are underselling Rowbottom and potentially Sheldrick. The former is rated above average for contested possessions and clearances despite the focus of his role not being on winning the ball (he has literally gone on record as saying this - well done Horse!) The latter is inexperienced but will be a 21 year old in his fourth year, with hopefully a full pre-season under his belt, so could easily provide support in terms of ball-winning, but also to Heeney & Rowbottom (and Mills??) so that their ball-winning can also improve as a result of having someone alongside them with the same focus as them, rather than someone focused on highlights. Naming no names.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Yes it is really quite baffling with our set-ups how Horse can look at them and think we are going to end up with the ball.

FWIW I think you are underselling Rowbottom and potentially Sheldrick. The former is rated above average for contested possessions and clearances despite the focus of his role not being on winning the ball (he has literally gone on record as saying this - well done Horse!) The latter is inexperienced but will be a 21 year old in his fourth year, with hopefully a full pre-season under his belt, so could easily provide support in terms of ball-winning, but also to Heeney & Rowbottom (and Mills??) so that their ball-winning can also improve as a result of having someone alongside them with the same focus as them, rather than someone focused on highlights. Naming no names.

I really do hope so, I pray that Sheldrick becomes that player. Even if the focus does shift for the others, i just can't see Horse changing Rowbums role. One can only hope. I'd rather see us die by the sword than not wield it at all.

 

[caesar88]

I really do hope so, I pray that Sheldrick becomes that player. Even if the focus does shift for the others, i just can't see Horse changing Rowbums role. One can only hope. I'd rather see us die by the sword than not wield it at all.

Oh well if we're talking about trusting Horse then I've got absolutely zero faith in him to make the midfield work. He's made a meal of it for years. But still a worthwhile discussion.

 

[Callipygian]

I don't think we can expect a player like Parfitt to become part of our best 22 (which is not to say it couldn't happen). We would only be recruiting for depth and is that the depth we need/want. We already have enough depth in ballwinners: Mills, Heeney, Rowbottom, Adams, Sheldrick, Roberts, Papley, Cleary and then on to players who are more outside like Warner, Gulden, JJ, JMac, Warner, Mitchell etc.

The ironic part of it is we've always been poor on the midfield defensive transition despite allocating the block. Purely comes down to not focussing on all players winning the ball. Win the ball enough and you won't need to defend as much.

You have to remember we pretty much won an equal share of clearances and contested possessions in the granny. The problem is not that simple.

Oh well if we're talking about trusting Horse then I've got absolutely zero faith in him to make the midfield work. He's made a meal of it for years. But still a worthwhile discussion.

I am not a fan of the 'baby and the bathwater' approach to analysing our 2024 (and before) performance based on just the GF. The conundrum that the club faces is how to balance the fact that we had a huge amount of success this season (minor premiers, made GF) with our dismal GF performance. As much as we have to address the problems we can't overlook that we had to have done a heck of a lot right. And when I say that, the coaches have to get a lot of credit for that - it is by no means the case that the players are just so talented that it was the inevitable end product.

Which leads to my second point: it's no good just singling Horse out. Of course he's the loudest voice in the room and carries the most responsibility but the coaches are a group. There's even a midfield specific coach (I believe it was Dean Cox this season) but you don't see him copping as much flak (even though he was around for 2022 too). Both the brickbats and the plaudits should be shared among the coaching group, with an outsized share of both - but still only a share - for Horse.

 

[BloodySwan]

Annoyed we're paying any of Parkers contract. North wanted him, they should be taking his whole contract

 

[Bloods86]

Annoyed we're paying any of Parkers contract. North wanted him, they should be taking his whole contract

Don't know why the post was removed, but if we're paying difference between back ended 2025 and AFL average it's not good.

It was rumoured to be 4 x 700 at the time, so if he was on say 600 average for 3 years, then it'd be $1m and we'd be paying half that, maybe 600. If it's 650 over 3, then 850, probably paying 400ish.

I said it at the time I wouldn't want the 4th Parker year to be a problem (if he walked over only 3, so be it), but most had him as the #1 priority over extra for Dawson and keeping Hewett. All worked out well.

 

[caesar88]

Which leads to my second point: it's no good just singling Horse out. Of course he's the loudest voice in the room and carries the most responsibility but the coaches are a group. There's even a midfield specific coach (I believe it was Dean Cox this season) but you don't see him copping as much flak (even though he was around for 2022 too). Both the brickbats and the plaudits should be shared among the coaching group, with an outsized share of both - but still only a share - for Horse.

This would be fair enough if the midfield issue was one isolated to this season, and this particular group. But it dates back to about 2018 now and an entirely different generation of midfielders.

Josh Kennedy, Dan Hannebery, Kieren Jack, Luke Parker, George Hewett, Zak Jones, Ollie Florent, James Rowbottom, Chad Warner, Callum Mills, Isaac Heeney and Errol Gulden are the names Horse has had at his disposal since 2018 and he's failed to remedy the contested ball and clearance issue with all of them.

See my lengthy comment in the Sack Horse thread for why I think his poor identification and assessment of midfield talent is largely to blame.

 

[Superstar swan]

So we are paying a fair chunk of Parkers salary