List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[akaifu]

why hasn't he built his fitness to this point? He's had years in the system.
Don't think he has it in him. He's content being an AFL footy player, I don't think he's interested in being anything more than just a name on the stats sheet in the monday morning paper.

Who knows, maybe bc of his injuries in the past but I hope you're wrong. Has so much potential if he just puts his head down and works his butt off

 

[St Neil]

We could easily shunt that coin for McKay into Gresham and trigger band 1 for you.

Would be the easiest deal you'll see.

We're that far of the cap ceiling.

I agree mate. And Hawthorn seem to have been the bridesmaid with some of the early movement in this trade period.

Hawks are cashed up with lots of cap space. Gresham would also be handy with Breust nearing the end.

Not much being said about the Hawks. I can see them swooping late.

 

[Jade Buddha]

I'm the opposite. Absolute Lyon fan but his list management has never been good at either club. What he wants doesn't always leave lists in a better places. He'll dilute the talent for soldiers that do his bidding.

Not so sure about that for RTB version 2023.
He was quite strong on backing Pou, NAS, Owens, Windy plus Sharman. Think the foot soldiers version won’t get AirPlay. Byrnes us a case in example. Not talented enough but runs all day so he was used off and on in the last 10 games or so.

 

[Jade Buddha]

I think you are right Gringo. Ross Lyon this year has shown this year he hasn’t changed and learned from his mistakes.

Same old coach he was when he left Fremantle and coached St Kilda. Difficult towards the media, doesn’t back his assistant coaches ect ect

When will he ever change…

Troll alert

 

[Plugger35]

Looks like we are resigned to losing Gresham and now we are shopping him around like used car salesmen.

He's got a few miles on the clock, he's a bit banged up with injuries, kicking a little faulty but he would look very good in a Hawks jumper.

We have a few other offers for him though so you better be quick with a first round pick or he could be off the table and going elsewhere.

 

[tomjoad]

I'm in a special secondary group where they all circle jerk and I can eat their jizz. Like the cuck special group for less reliable posters that still need to know that we are slightly better than the rest of you.

Jesus Gringo... that's a whiskey induced fetish and S&M post right there if ever I saw one.

 

[Jade Buddha]

I like the idea of wines but I’m currently in Italy so I’m probably thinking more Amarone or Sangiovese rather than Ollie.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Just on Gresham. He’s not a midfielder and won’t become one anytime soon. He’s a player that showed some great X factor forward early but appears to have believed his own press reviews.
Let’s be honest he had below average form and was poor in a team orientated style this year.
We’ve made it clear we want draft collateral and he still has value. Why not extract that as best we can to improve our hand. He king of reminds me of Devon Smith

5

Devon Smith

Age

31

Ht

176cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.8

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

5.3

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

16.3

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.6

4star

D

15.6

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

0.2

3star

at the bombers and what an over inflated ego he had.

 

[Sun Ra]

Just on Gresham. He’s not a midfielder and won’t become one anytime soon. He’s a player that showed some great X factor forward early but appears to have believed his own press reviews.
Let’s be honest he had below average form and was poor in a team orientated style this year.
We’ve made it clear we want draft collateral and he still has value. Why not extract that as best we can to improve our hand. He king of reminds me of Devon Smith at the bombers and what an over inflated ego he had.

I wonder if Gresh was willing to stay for say 3 x $500K if the club would have accepted that ?

 

[austinnn]

I like the idea of wines but I’m currently in Italy so I’m probably thinking more Amarone or Sangiovese rather than Ollie.

Think ollie's head would suit a cask wine more

 

[austinnn]

Having the Hawks sniff around can only be beneficial for us. The Bombers do love to go for the designer label purchase rather than the moneyball stuff - Hopefully, they think the Gresh is big time enough, but if not, the Hawks see him as a good balance for the young team and are willing to shell out enough. I think Gresh will light up the right team. I'd hate it to be the Blues or Bombers, but at this stage, I'm past getting hooked up on that stuff. I wish him well.

He'll definitely be missed in our forward line, but maybe Hotton can replace him long term. I have been committed to this type of trade strategy for a few years though, so I am ready for the sacrifice we must make. If we are on point with our drafting, it will be transformative for our club, a sliding door moment we will look back on.

 

[botts]

Absolutely.

That’s the point of free agency

 

[Klaatu]

You obviously don't understand the footy ecosystem. You can make finals off a good fixture, the sides you meet at the right time, jumping early through better fitness base etc. If every side that jumped up just progressed footy would be very easy to pick winners from. Freo were exactly where we were 12 months ago. Now they look way back in the pack. I'd say we are almost modelling on them but going for a few more ready made GOPs to cover for lesser list pieces.

Gold Coast are almost certain to improve. Essendon should be better, Carlton will start faster, Richmond etc etc. To me the Cats and Eagles are the only two that I can't see getting better. No guarantee that we move forward. You can also be a middling list like North were and stay just off the peloton.

& we can have a good pre season & recruited well & our younger players could advance no reason not to.


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[Significant]

I posted this on the Gresh thread on the Draft and FA page, and think it makes a lot of sense for those thinking that there is no benefit for Essendon in trading Shiel:

I think the art of list management is lost on the general public.

People asking what the benefit of getting Shiels heavy contract off the books would provide for Essendon? The benefit is that you're not investing heavily into one player across your list who, by the end of the year wasn't making it into the starting 22, and may not be in the clubs future plans given his age, injury history, lack of form, and by the looks of it investment by the club moving forward.

In a competition that standardises all teams through a salary cap arrangement, clubs are looking for any competitive advantage to get a leg up on the competition, and being able to financially manage your TPP so that the majority of investment is built into your starting 22-25 is a clear way of going about this. Geelong do it brilliantly by spreading wealth across probably 25-30 players on its list to have mature depth.

Essendon may see this as an opportunity to front load more and push hard again for FA next year if the opportunity arose, or see positives in being able to move Shiel on now and be really competitive in the Trade and FA market if Dylan isn't being factored into their plans in 2024 onwards.

I understand he may have been injured, but he was starting sub 2 or 3 times in the last few weeks whilst he remained out of the team. I think that speaks for something, and Hobbs, Tsatas, Caldwell, Perkins would all be pushing for more midfield time moving forward.

It makes some sense.

 

[phantom13]

What’s the bigfooty list management equivalent to mansplaining.

Managesplaining?

 

[gringo2011]

& we can have a good pre season & recruited well & our younger players could advance no reason not to.


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It could. Sides jump up from mid table all the time. I can’t see where that extra growth comes from but it’s not impossible. King is probably our best chance and some midfielder depth.

 

[Joffaboy]

It could. Sides jump up from mid table all the time. I can’t see where that extra growth comes from but it’s not impossible. King is probably our best chance and some midfielder depth.

Chito, Pou, Windy, Naz,Max, Henry, there are 5 off the top of my head, a first yearer like Pou from this draft, have seen nothing of Hotton, Caminiti and Coops have improvement out the wazhoo to come.

Then you have older players like Wood who can pipe up and have there best season, Steele, fit recaptures form, Clark gets fit and realises his potential, Coff comes back in.
Of course all this could go in the opposite direction, but to state you can't see any growth is being deliberately blind to our young players.


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[gringo2011]

Chito, Pou, Windy, Naz,Max, Henry, there are 5 off the top of my head, a first yearer like Pou from this draft, have seen nothing of Hotton, Caminiti and Coops have improvement out the wazhoo to come.

Then you have older players like Wood who can pipe up and have there best season, Steele, fit recaptures form, Clark gets fit and realises his potential, Coff comes back in.
Of course all this could go in the opposite direction, but to state you can't see any growth is being deliberately blind to our young players.


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I didn't say there would be no growth. It's the extra growth to move ahead of the growth in other sides that I'm not sure about. Gold Coast have an elite list held back by an ordinary coach who has just been replaced. I reckon it might take some time to reprogram them but once it clicks they will be a force. GWS are a proper side now and heaps of other sides have better talent.

Getting a double up against Collingwood and GWS would almost be 4 losses before you start the season. Carlton look to be a proper side now and even sides below us like Sydney and Freo look better than where they finished. Every year it gets harder as others improve at the same pace and if we go for more youth and play them, the balance can start to tip in to inconsistency.

We won't get any more from Wood, Hill, Sinclair types, maybe some injury free runs to guys like Steele and Jones gives us a bit more there though.

Dow and Henry are GOPs ATM, that still have some potential to break out but they could equally stand still and not be much better than what we already have.

If a whole lot step up at once you get rapid growth and you are away but to me there are only a few that look capable of stepping up to elite next year. I think Owens and Phillipou types probably start to peak around 23 to 25 like most young players but if they can make a 20% jump it will definitely help.

 

[phantom13]

I didn't say there would be no growth. It's the extra growth to move ahead of the growth in other sides that I'm not sure about. Gold Coast have an elite list held back by an ordinary coach who has just been replaced. I reckon it might take some time to reprogram them but once it clicks they will be a force. GWS are a proper side now and heaps of other sides have better talent.

Getting a double up against Collingwood and GWS would almost be 4 losses before you start the season. Carlton look to be a proper side now and even sides below us like Sydney and Freo look better than where they finished. Every year it gets harder as others improve at the same pace and if we go for more youth and play them, the balance can start to tip in to inconsistency.

We won't get any more from Wood, Hill, Sinclair types, maybe some injury free runs to guys like Steele and Jones gives us a bit more there though.

Dow and Henry are GOPs ATM, that still have some potential to break out but they could equally stand still and not be much better than what we already have.

If a whole lot step up at once you get rapid growth and you are away but to me there are only a few that look capable of steeping up to lite next year. I think Owens and Phillipou types probably start to peak around 23 to 25 like most young players but if they can make a 20% jump it will definitely help.

I’m usually in agony aunt corner with you but truthfully this is the best young group of talent I can remember. Settled back six, pretty dynamic forward line, good depth, up coming mids.

Gold Coast has scope for improvement as do Sydney and others but we’ve got a good coach, solid support staff. I’d say we’re as likely to improve without any non draft additions as anyone, and I seriously doubt we sit on our hands in trade week.

 

[saintmike65]

Just on Gresham. He’s not a midfielder and won’t become one anytime soon. He’s a player that showed some great X factor forward early but appears to have believed his own press reviews.
Let’s be honest he had below average form and was poor in a team orientated style this year.
We’ve made it clear we want draft collateral and he still has value. Why not extract that as best we can to improve our hand. He king of reminds me of Devon Smith at the bombers and what an over inflated ego he had.

Great comparison…Devon Smith had an extremely high opinion of himself!

 

[gringo2011]

I’m usually in agony aunt corner with you but truthfully this is the best young group of talent I can remember. Settled back six, pretty dynamic forward line, good depth, up coming mids.

Gold Coast has scope for improvement as do Sydney and others but we’ve got a good coach, solid support staff. I’d say we’re as likely to improve without any non draft additions as anyone, and I seriously doubt we sit on our hands in trade week.

I reckon we look most like Sydney as a list. Not quite as good as the best but super competitive and a solid system.

 

[Neil Elvis Winmar]

I don’t necessarily think we are guaranteed to make the finals even if we keep all the current players on the list. We just made it! I think the coaching group did an amazing job and we overachieved slightly.

I do believe we won’t achieve top 4 or anything serious with the current list though. We need to be bold in our assessment of player value and the way we can get top end talent into our squad and especially midfield.

It won’t be one player exit or trade that does that or looks that great in isolation, but maybe the some of all parts at the end of trade period. Let’s just wait and see how that looks at the end of the trade and draft period.

Free agency and trade isn’t just about paying overs it’s about paying overs for the right players that drive standards, leadership and are difference makers that can help you take the jump to top 4.




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[TylerDurden]

I agree mate. And Hawthorn seem to have been the bridesmaid with some of the early movement in this trade period.

Hawks are cashed up with lots of cap space. Gresham would also be handy with Breust nearing the end.

Not much being said about the Hawks. I can see them swooping late.

All I see is Dodo trying to over complicate it as usual.

Who knows. If Jade wants Essendon, then it's all a moot point.

We just got massively played by McKay, so we'll tread with caution.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Nick Daicos - Greatest draft pick of all time

2023
31 disps per game
80 Inside 50's
73 Rebound 50's

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera - Good young player

2023
23 disps per game
51 Inside 50's
103 rebound 50's


Nas genuinely crucified not to be in the AA squad. Would be blowing up if he played for Carlton or Collingwood.

 

[Yawkey way]

It could. Sides jump up from mid table all the time. I can’t see where that extra growth comes from but it’s not impossible. King is probably our best chance and some midfielder depth.

A couple of players if they’re the right ones can transform how teams play.