Training 2023 Pre-season thread

[Section 5]

Pre-season Highlights: Brisbane v Geelong

The Lions v Cats clash at Brighton Homes Arena

www.afl.com.au

 

[twhowler]

Midfield mix looks really good with Ashcroft and Dunkley.

Harris looks rejuvinTe

My take away form the two practice matches is that the inclusions of Dunkley and Ashcroft cannot be undersold. The flow on affect for the rest of the team and especially Neale is evident IMO. Last year during games it basically was Neale or bust. Not this year! The starting midfield of Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage (Simon Black like on the inside last night with his hands) and Ashcroft is pretty potent but what excites me the most is that this should benefit the likes of Zorko, Berry, Bailey etc as the next tier of those who can and will go through the middle at times. I would think that Zorko will start on the bench and should be managed with game time and also actual games but as a rotational player supporting the starting midfield will be quite exciting to see. Berry is another who will benefit as he cannot shoulder the load (see what I did there) of playing in the centre and is beneficial on the wing but as last years final against Melbourne can be a 'break glass in case of an emergency'. I know that some stated that Bailey should be left to play as a forward and I can see the advantage of that but for a rotational player through the midfield and a different type only adds to the mix. Just on Ashcroft (again I know it was a pre-season match) but he actually worked into the game and for me his 3rd and 4th quarters were his best. Usually you would see with first year players for them to drop away in those quarters as they get used to the speed and intensity of the game.

It is also exciting to see Hipwood and Andrews bodies beginning to fill out and as with most talls this occurs in their mid 20s. Andrews doesn't seem to be laboring like he was last year. Maybe a secret trip to Germany in the off-season for someone to look at those knees of his. Gunston is just such a smart footballer who also has excellent skills in the open field. First quarter I think he took a mark on the opposition side of the wing, turned hit up Daniher 50/60m away who then kicked it deep into the forward 50 for someone to kick goal. But that first kick is what set it up.


It is only pre-season and I always wait for about 6/8 games into the season to get a feel for where we are at but I like what I see and it is quite evident to the eye IMO.

Absolutely agree with the change in midfield.

Our starting best 4 mids in 2022 we were all pretty confident in - not best in the league but capable enough. But by the end of the year:

Neale - gun still should have won second Brownlow
Lyons - injury meant he was shadow of his former self and dropped
Zorko - age catching up to him, capable of decent but rarely getting 25 possessions
McCluggage - very good and was on the improve


You can't have a midfield with 2 bankable players getting 25 possies plus.

Dunkley and Ashcroft look to instantly be in our best 4 mids:

Neale - no change
Dunkley - looks immediately bankable as a 25+ plus mid and bigger size
Ashcroft - ditto although not as big
McCluggage - looks to have improved again as an inside mid

The added bonus with Ashcroft and Dunkley is they both tackle well.

Certainly don't want to get carried away with a praccy game vs a very undermanned cats, but positives inlcuded:

- Payne looked comfortable. Harris looked completely rejuvenated. Quicker and launching at the ball with that big beautiful fist.

- Gameplan seemed to work really well. Bottled them up in defence with numbers. When we went quickly we always had someone to go to not just a blind space kick. We seemed to go one extra handball when on the counter attack which cleared someone to kick to a player not to the opposition

- I think Rayner looks good down back. He has the speed and the leap perfect for a third tall. Better kick than dizzy and quicker decision-maker.

- Just reiterating loved the games of Dunkley and Ashcroft. Ashcroft is so quick and deft in close. And bloody strong. Dunkley is exactly what we have been crying out for. The cats bullied Neale out of the game last year. Can't see that happening again

I really hope Fagan has an open mind re best 22 and a mindset to not rush players back. This is the most depth we have had since the premiership years. Give Gardiner plenty of time. Do not rush back Zorko, put him in when he is fully fit. I am not against Lyons playing but again would want to be bloody fit. And don't play him because we owe him anyting. Crucial we don't upset our midfield balance. 2 more years on his contract suddenly seems very long!

Rich in a similar position. Let's not have any liabilities down back. So many flankers now and so many are speedy.

 

[Tassie4ever]

A promising start v a side which Scott would never allow to provide a soft contest.

Couple of things- with the best will in the world, Rayner looks like a fish out of water at HB. Not sure whether moving him there is a sign of desperation as to what to do with what should be a prize asset but in reality has only partly delivered at best. Or just what?

Dunkley adds to Neale's presence and is as tough as. McCluggage operates at a different level. Too good.

The venue- wow!!

 

[Grasshopper17]

Coleman & McCluggage

Kane Cornes' 2023 AFL All-Australian leftfield candidate

Every year, we see players make a leap and put themselves in All-Australian contention.

www.sen.com.au

Amazing that Coleman is still considered "left field". Would absolutely not be if he played for a Victorian club.



One other thing... Gosh we dropped a lot of marks last night. So did Geelong I know, but I don't care about them so much. The vast majority of our games are scheduled at night, but we played last night as though we haven't touched a damp/humid/sweaty ball in 6 months. And... That's probably because we haven't.

We. Should. Be. Training. At. Night.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Amazing that Coleman is still considered "left field". Would absolutely not be if he played for a Victorian club.



One other thing... Gosh we dropped a lot of marks last night. So did Geelong I know, but I don't care about them so much. The vast majority of our games are scheduled at night, but we played last night as though we haven't touched a damp/humid/sweaty ball in 6 months. And... That's probably because we haven't.

We. Should. Be. Training. At. Night.

Yeah he's not a left field choice for anyone who's watched us play more than once or twice

 

[martinson]

I get it with Coleman but he's barely played a handful of games in his now preferred position and let's see him put a body of work together for a whole season before we start talking about AA's.

Not there yet.

 

[pOleK]

Lot of positive signs last night but there was still one glaring thing that I couldn't help but notice last night. Yes, our scoring per i50% is elite, but we need to be more clinical and take advantage of our opportunities. It's happened in the past and it happened a lot last night where we tried to be too cute, tried to over handball it, and no one was willing to take responsibility and pull the trigger at a shot at goal. Just tiny things where we take our game from just being good, to a great disciplined side.

Looking very forward to this season though

 

[Viceregal]

A bit of talk about the umps. It's funny ,because I didn't care about the outcome of the match I didn't notice them.

Makes me wonder whether I overreact during the real games.

Well I know I do.

I know I always see the evil done to us but almost never that done to the other side and am stunned at how often both sides feel like the other side brought their own umpires.

I know it wasn't just me when the game day/review threads start getting more posters from other teams than ours and all of them refer to us being robbed/crucified etc (or when our posters who normally defend the umpires start commenting ... eg if western royboy started complaining about the umpiring being biased/criminal etc I would pay attention!)

 

[SRH17]

Loved watching Will stand up for himself in the last quarter by putting (insert name here) on his backside and teammates running in to support him. We have ourselves an absolute beauty!

 

[SRH17]

Amazing that Coleman is still considered "left field". Would absolutely not be if he played for a Victorian club.



One other thing... Gosh we dropped a lot of marks last night. So did Geelong I know, but I don't care about them so much. The vast majority of our games are scheduled at night, but we played last night as though we haven't touched a damp/humid/sweaty ball in 6 months. And... That's probably because we haven't.

We. Should. Be. Training. At. Night.

We went and watched from the boundary in the last quarter. Boundary umpire was lathered in sweat.

 

[LongLion]

We went and watched from the boundary in the last quarter. Boundary umpire was lathered in sweat.

Humidity was running between 85%-90% @23 degrees. No wonder they were sweating.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Lot of positive signs last night but there was still one glaring thing that I couldn't help but notice last night. Yes, our scoring per i50% is elite, but we need to be more clinical and take advantage of our opportunities. It's happened in the past and it happened a lot last night where we tried to be too cute, tried to over handball it, and no one was willing to take responsibility and pull the trigger at a shot at goal. Just tiny things where we take our game from just being good, to a great disciplined side.

Looking very forward to this season though

McCluggage

Seriously tho, if we improve our kicking for goal, blokes will be more inclined to take those shots. The key is reducing the gap between our best and worst shots. Often it's a bit scattergun. Too often really.

It also occurred to me that the guys taking the most shots are generally the worst, when it should be the reverse. Case in point Dev's set shot last night. Never seen him take one before but there was no fuss, tight angle, no worries, just went back and nailed it.

Dunkley on the other hand... Hardly made the goal umpire move in the intra clubs and even last Friday. Last night tho he missed a shocker in the first quarter.

Which makes me wonder if we practicing properly? Or are we practicing in such a way that is creating and ingraining bad habits?

 

[ZoBlitz]

Another player injured getting tunnelled. Should 100% be a reportable offence.

Something for the extra ump to look out for.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Loved watching Will stand up for himself in the last quarter by putting (insert name here) on his backside and teammates running in to support him. We have ourselves an absolute beauty!

Guthrie. Although You're misremembering - it was Starce (I think) who came into fly the flag. Will just gave a bit of a shove. Was amusing a couple of minutes later when there was a stacks on Guthrie in the D50.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Guthrie. Although You're misremembering - it was Starce (I think) who came into fly the flag. Will just gave a bit of a shove. Was amusing a couple of minutes later when there was a stacks on Guthrie in the D50.

I actually thought it was Dunkley who ran in and pushed Guthrie over. Well, he pushed Guthrie, who took a dive. Could be wrong tho.

But loved the way Will went back to Guthrie and let him know after the ball had left the area.

Just needs to be careful as there are trigger happy umpires who want the game to be all about them and will pay free kicks for that sort of carry on, rightly or wrongly.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I actually thought it was Dunkley who ran in and pushed Guthrie over. Well, he pushed Guthrie, who took a dive. Could be wrong tho.

But loved the way Will went back to Guthrie and let him know after the ball had left the area.

Just needs to be careful as there are trigger happy umpires who want the game to be all about them and will pay free kicks for that sort of carry on, rightly or wrongly.

Actually, thinking back to the commentary, I think you're correct.

 

[buttermuffs]

Seems like there’s a lot of differing opinions on Rayner and McKenna. Seems be ranging from “looking great” to “looks lost”. Not bashing any of these opinions since I could definitely see both ways.

I think the biggest thing I am adjusting to is that the defence looks a lot different than last year. We had a back six over the last couple years that always had Adams Rich Gardiner Andrews and Starcevich with Coleman present for most of it as well and to see almost three players from those either injured (Gardiner, Adams) or losing some impact (Rich) makes it hard to judge.

Replacing two of our tall backs in Adams and Gardiner with Rayner and Payne is a big change which I’m not sure how it will work. While I have confidence in Payne, I don’t know how Rayner will fare considering it’s a newish position for him and is replacing the very experienced Gardiner/Adams who would be in that role otherwise.

I think it’ll take 4 to 5 games to get used to the shift in the backline.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Nunez]

I thought Rayner played his role. Wasn't overly impressive, wasn't bad.

Still think he's absolutely going to move up the ground but given the injury to Gardiner and Joyce being anything but proven, it could end up being an unintended masterstroke having Cam feel confident of how to play a third tall defender role in our team.

 

[chopperduck]

Guthrie. Although You're misremembering - it was Starce (I think) who came into fly the flag. Will just gave a bit of a shove. Was amusing a couple of minutes later when there was a stacks on Guthrie in the D50.

For a practice game, it was noticeable. I'm sure they are just sticking up for the new kid, but there are some small signs that the players are hungry and just a little bit more confident this year.

 

[chopperduck]

Seems like there’s a lot of differing opinions on Rayner and McKenna. Seems be ranging from “looking great” to “looks lost”. Not bashing any of these opinions since I could definitely see both ways.

I think the biggest thing I am adjusting to is that the defence looks a lot different than last year. We had a back six over the last couple years that always had Adams Rich Gardiner Andrews and Starcevich with Coleman present for most of it as well and to see almost three players from those either injured (Gardiner, Adams) or losing some impact (Rich) makes it hard to judge.

Replacing two of our tall backs in Adams and Gardiner with Rayner and Payne is a big change which I’m not sure how it will work. While I have confidence in Payne, I don’t know how Rayner will fare considering it’s a newish position for him and is replacing the very experienced Gardiner/Adams who would be in that role otherwise.

I think it’ll take 4 to 5 games to get used to the shift in the backline.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I think the other thing is our structure is different. Hard to pin point at this time having only watched on tv and not being able to see at the ends of the ground, but the likes of Kiddy, mckenna and Rich seem further up (link players), with the more contested ball winners deeper in defense. Not sure if Rayner will last the entire year, Zorko, Berry and Diz are auto 22 players, so Rayner might end up forward again, but i think he is just playing a role in that new defensive set up. Even Harro isn't as deep as he was in previous years, to the point that he got some sneaky shots on goal last week.

Previous years we would have lines of players come up to meet the ball, now we just always seem to have some numbers back. We look like we are playing a more slingshot style, rather than pushing the numbers forward, we push them back and then use the ball quick and direct. I haven't seen a couple of games where we were able to go coast to coast so many times basically uncontested. That comes down to work rate and structure. Our forwards are pushing back pretty hard as well, but at the same time are finding a padocks of space when the ball is turned over.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Something for the extra ump to look out for.

I’ll do it for free.

 

[Nickimus Rex]

I actually thought it was Dunkley who ran in and pushed Guthrie over. Well, he pushed Guthrie, who took a dive. Could be wrong tho.

But loved the way Will went back to Guthrie and let him know after the ball had left the area.

Just needs to be careful as there are trigger happy umpires who want the game to be all about them and will pay free kicks for that sort of carry on, rightly or wrongly.

It was Dunks actually who pushed him, was pretty hillarious in the vision

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

The ruck battle is interesting. Big O was not great in the ruck but reasonable around the ground. I did feel like Fort was better in the ruck contests. I don’t know if Stanley got tired??? Both seem to be moving really well. Fort just gets more involved. It tight but for me Fort starts Rnd 1. We can’t play 2 rucks surely. Too much downside.

 

[briztoon]

Don’t have a lot to add. We were sitting in the back row of the stand, above the interchange benches.

A couple of observations.

When taking kick ins, Rich didn’t even look to his left. Often times Wilmot was in acres of space with no one within cooee, and his wing wide open in front of him.

Rich could have kicked it early to Wilmot before any Geelong players had time to close Wilmot down.


Prior was pretty vocal at directing players all night. From open play, when there was a stoppage, and from the interchange box.

He also got in the Geelong players, and has a bit of agro/mongrel. He’s come a long way from his draft year, where the “knock” on him was a lack of confidence in his own ability.


There were long stretches of the game where the wing on our side of the ground, was the fat side.

Who ever was wing there, was very disciplined in holding their width, even when the Geelong player drifted to the centre of the ground.

And often they would fold back in to the defensive 50, and help create an extra man in defence.

A lot of unrewarded running for who ever played wing.


For me, I have Prior ahead of Dev and Tunstill for one wing spot. He’s not as fast as the other two, but he has better disposal and reads the game better.

Same reason I have Wilmot ahead of McKenna as the 7th defender, on the bench.

I wish the coaches would play Dev more on ball, so we could see how he does inside.

I wouldn’t have a wing on the bench. If healthy, I’d be playing Berry and Prior as wings, with Dev and Ashcroft as the bench mids, who can play inside and provide coverage on the wings when one comes to the bench.


We can rotate a lot of players through the midfield second unit; Dev, Ashcroft, Bailey and Zorko, but we’re still pretty short through there, and it was noticeable that we lost quite a few centre bounces or stoppages purely because a loose ball went over Neale’s or Bailey’s or Ashcroft head, and a taller Geelong mid grabbed the ball out of the air and got a handball away.

 

[Brett C]

Lot of positive signs last night but there was still one glaring thing that I couldn't help but notice last night. Yes, our scoring per i50% is elite, but we need to be more clinical and take advantage of our opportunities. It's happened in the past and it happened a lot last night where we tried to be too cute, tried to over handball it, and no one was willing to take responsibility and pull the trigger at a shot at goal. Just tiny things where we take our game from just being good, to a great disciplined side.

Looking very forward to this season though

So you’re saying the team who’s been top 3 in points for each of the past 3 seasons isn’t doing a good enough job.

Interesting take