List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

[AirWinmar]

Yep.

Our ball movement hasn't looked good since the Richmond and first Hawks game.

It just seemed to progressively get worse until it started costing us in the back half of the year

We're also so 1 dimensional with how we go forward so it would be pretty easy for teams to figure out how to setup defensively against us

 

[gringo2011]

We really see football differently. The Mitchell Hawks are the most one dimensional defensive trainwreck in the league. They cannot contain an opposition run on at all in my opinion. Sam is a corporate schmoozer who says all the right things but doesn't have any examples of implementation.

I like the way they play and with a few better players I think they could do a quick refresh and be back in challenge mode fairly quickly. He's got them playing fast attacking footy that is nice to watch. They got three less wins than us with a list that looks as appealing a herpes.

 

[gringo2011]

he was told at the end of 2020 he was last in the queue and that his AFL time was probably up

Heard it as more like he'd played his last game for the Saints. Only to get called up again any way because we were running out of players.

 

[gringo2011]

Well its all subjective really but the top 4 sides right now are Geelong, Melbourne, Sydney Collingwood.

Now we absolutely dont have better lists that Geelong and Melbourne, no question.

Sydney... Id say thats questionable. On paper outside of an OLD buddy and Heeney theres not alot of out and out stars there.

Collingwood i think there no doubt, especially at the start of this year we had a better 22 than they did.

Now Sydney and Collingwood are playing much much better football, much more suited to their gameplan than we are and thats sort of my point.

If we played the footy we know were capable of, consistently, we absolutely challenge those teams.

Geelong I'd dispute, they are really a champion team with less weaknesses than most but only a handful of really top talent. Cameron, Hawk, Stewart are top shelf. Then the next tier is the really solid core like Blicsavs, Duncan, Guthrie, Thouhy, Stengle etc then building kids, old guys past their best and good even contributors.

Melbourne have that real top end with three absolute stars in Petracca, Oliver and Gawn, Lever and May as that really top tier in defence and just depth and quality everywhere. Sydney are super young and look like a super high end future list.

Collingwood are a weird old and young side with most of their quality around defence and forward posts. Jamie Elliott is probably one of the saddest story in footy, if his body had held up I reckon he would have been a legend by the time he retired. Look at most of their clutch games and who pops up. He's like Robbie Grey but with a few more tricks.

 

[stavro#4]

Heard it as more like he'd played his last game for the Saints. Only to get called up again any way because we were running out of players.

No,

Last in queue. Disposal shocking.

Went away from disposal needing to be decent for a game in 21. Dunstan came back in due to injuries and performed. Etc

 

[gringo2011]

Collingwood would be the only one we'd be close to in terms of list quality IMO.

Then most of the sides just outside the 4 would be ahead of us too.

Pies made the 4 because they managed to sneak home in every close game they had. A lot of that is great management but a lot would have to go down to luck also.

For us to propel that far up the ladder we would need our kids to jump massively in form. I have my doubts we have enough quality kids to do that.

To me the forward line that should be an absolute weapon is being so badly used that you might as well just play King there. Snags and Butler have both had form that is as good as any small forward in footy. The way we deliver everything slowly and through King standing still is like self sabotage. We have members running away from the goals at every opportunity and hold no structure and don't really utilise any of the pieces.

If we delivered the ball faster to them alone it would be a huge step up.

 

[Saint Shags]

He went there to get away not to play footy. He was happy to retire rather than spend another day under Ratts. That's pretty bad IMO. If he's happy getting a game at Casey good luck to him.

Gee surprised that an AFL player would be happy just to play VFL.
Especially when he could have had a chance to play in the Seniors for GC. Then they went cold on him.
Dew must have been hating on him already.

 

[gringo2011]

No,

Last in queue. Disposal shocking.

Went away from disposal needing to be decent for a game in 21. Dunstan came back in due to injuries and performed. Etc

The sides playing the best footy now play like he did when he came in ironically. Grab it and get it inside 50 quickly. Ratts had one set of standards for him and none for anyone else. He should train skills if he cares about them. Nothing about his high standards seem to be obvious on game day.

 

[Premium]

And if he's not really the strategist because of Rath and the line coaches doing that we need to change them.




Definitely. A quick ball movement simple game plan, and we look like a team that should have been between 4th and 8th. The real issue is that there isn't much in behind coming through. We are going to need to have an over performance from the developing players we do have because we don't have many and need to keep adding kids.

The danger then becomes are we a North Melbourne under Scott that peaks around 4th. I think we have to go for it still because the option of cutting hard and rebooting would be a pretty hard to sell carrying a substantial debt post Covid. We really need to just make ourselves competitive and hope for a miracle.

Gringo you are well aware the current people in charge of the list - Leathlean has already gutted the list and have brought in players to What I can gather Dunstan was let goe due to ill disaplineupgrade the list and has started to bring in good talent.
You take out Ross , Hill , Sinclair , Crouch , Membery all of the rest of the best 22 are 26 or under.
And the guys I have mentioned the only ones I feel I would miss would be Sinclair , Crouch and Membery so our team has got heaps more upside.
Even guys like Howard , who is 25 and 2m tall - has massive upside and Marshall as a ruckman will only get better every year - and a guy like King with a few more kgs in the future years is going to be a massive for us.

To me if we can pick up another good couple draft picks and DeGoey and a ruckman like Briggs at GWS , we should be primed.

The sides playing the best footy now play like he did when he came in ironically. Grab it and get it inside 50 quickly. Ratts had one set of standards for him and none for anyone else. He should train skills if he cares about them. Nothing about his high standards seem to be obvious on game day.

Dunstan was let go most probably for ill discipline , not following coaches instructions etc.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The sides playing the best footy now play like he did when he came in ironically. Grab it and get it inside 50 quickly. Ratts had one set of standards for him and none for anyone else. He should train skills if he cares about them. Nothing about his high standards seem to be obvious on game day.

Yep - agree wholeheartedly. Rushed disposal out of the centre seems to be OK for Crouch.

AFL Statistics by FootyWire : Australian Rules Football League Stats

AFL Statistics by FootyWire : Australian Rules Football League Stats.

www.footywire.com

 

[bird_man]

Can't believe people are still hung up about Luke ****ing Dunstan

 

[Saint Shags]

Yep - agree wholeheartedly. Rushed disposal out of the centre seems to be OK for Crouch.

AFL Statistics by FootyWire : Australian Rules Football League Stats

AFL Statistics by FootyWire : Australian Rules Football League Stats.

www.footywire.com

I'd take Crouch over Dunstan everyday of the week though.

 

[Mowman]

St Kilda’s board has backed the pursuit of Collingwood free agent Jordan De Goey

2

Jordan De Goey

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.1

5star

CL

2.3

4star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.3

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

up to and until he re-signs with the Pies.
St Kilda football head Simon Lethlean said the board supported the club chasing any and all free agents as long as it had done extensive background work on the player and the player fitted with the club’s overall list strategy.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yep - It is much different to Dunstan.

Ratten said Bytel was prefered ahead of Dunstan. Bytel didn't perform, Dunstan effectively excluded and then leaves at the end of the year.

The following year Bytel doesn't perform and decides to leave at the end of the year.

So being the "winner" doesn't mean you were right or that it was the best outcome for the club.

What ever point you are trying to make, I am sure someone understood it.

 

[lewdogs]

I think he had already told them he wasn't coming back. Pretty fractured relationship. I know you'll argue that it's a great thing the club did as usual but to have a guy who's spent his career at the club walk away really upset at his treatment isn't showing anything positive about how he saw the environment he was in. It's really rare that a player would prefer to blow up his career than stay at his club. They must have really upset him.

I find it funny how on one hand you want the club to be ruthless yet on the other you think it's terrible that we hurt Luke Dunstan's feelings.

 

[Joffaboy]

Heard it as more like he'd played his last game for the Saints. Only to get called up again any way because we were running out of players.

Absolutely incorrect. I heard Ratten on SEN on the way to a Sandy game last year.
He said that he told Dunstan he had a few ahead of him and he needed to change some things.
He got back.in because of injury but wouldn't change. Never told he had played his last game.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I'd take Crouch over Dunstan everyday of the week though.

Agree - but I'd take Dunstan over Bytel every day of the week.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Can't believe people are still hung up about Luke ******* Dunstan

I’m convinced Gringo takes opposing sides of black and white arguments to hone his debating skillz

 

[PoppedCorn]

And game plan is only a good as the players who need to execute it. The forward set up and how we kick it in needs work - no doubt about that - but we also need improvement from the players trying to execute it or need to get better players in there all together. If they blame all their deficiencies on the game plan, they will never improve as players because not everything is someone else's fault.

Funnily enough, a similarity between the Carlton game and rd23 was King had a proper 2nd tall next to him throughout the game to take attention off him which he didn't have for approximately there 6 games before rd23. Maybe getting someone to play 2nd fiddle to every each week is a good idea.

He had paddy and members next to him in the carlton game
Padd kicked 2 membrey kicked 4
Replace padd with hayes and add sharman

We dont need a 31 year old jack gunstan

 

[Joffaboy]

Anyway glad Luke has proven Ratts wrong with him pushing out Melbourne mids to play all 23 H&A games and a shoo in for their B&F.
That's what it seems reading this thread. Or maybe it is just to enhance the false narrative that everyone hates Ratts, he is the worst coach in the league and every Saints administrator should be sacked.

 

[Joffaboy]

Agree - but I'd take Dunstan over Bytel every day of the week.

Why? Neither are good enough for AFL. Bytel at least has potential, Dunstan is a shot bird.

 

[gubby88]

On SM-F711B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PoppedCorn]

View attachment 1489687

On SM-F711B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Not bad for a winger

 

[Mowman]

Anyway glad Luke has proven Ratts wrong with him pushing out Melbourne mids to play all 23 H&A games and a shoo in for their B&F.
That's what it seems reading this thread. Or maybe it is just to enhance the false narrative that everyone hates Ratts, he is the worst coach in the league and every Saints administrator should be sacked.

We were right about Richo just took the rest of you a couple years to jump on board

 

[pebblesofsand]

Absolutely incorrect. I heard Ratten on SEN on the way to a Sandy game last year.
He said that he told Dunstan he had a few ahead of him and he needed to change some things.
He got back.in because of injury but wouldn't change. Never told he had played his last game.

He got back in because he was averaging about 40 possessions a game for weeks in a row at Sandy and they had to admit he deserved a spot.

Same with Tom Campbell.

All coaches have favourites and ones they don't rate. Ratts is no different.

Its simple though - pick on form - full stop!!!