xavier vs st kevin's
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Mark McGough
Rookie
If you're not in the elite 9, you're not fine!
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Interesting article about Skevs..
Most of us don't really care about the Mick schools anyway.
As for pumping up Xavier - are you serious ???? Bullying, out of control muck up days, they do appear to be attracting some lower class students in recent years.
As for scholarships - St Kevs 1st XIIX is full of them, stop lying and just admit it.
Writing cheques to win a premiership will never make you a "great sporting school with great tradition", just ask Haylebury.
As for pumping up Xavier - are you serious ???? Bullying, out of control muck up days, they do appear to be attracting some lower class students in recent years.
As for scholarships - St Kevs 1st XIIX is full of them, stop lying and just admit it.
Writing cheques to win a premiership will never make you a "great sporting school with great tradition", just ask Haylebury.
in the Square
Senior List
Clearly you've got an agenda here mate.
SKC isn't full of scholarships, two boys are on them (one of them wanting to be at skevs already, before he got one).
What happened with Xavier you would find happens at most schools, however the media decides to blow things out of proportions. The past year level may have been a bit full on, but if you are saying that no other private school has bullying and all, your delusional mate.
MontyMensch
Senior List
It is amazing how two idiots arguing two completely different stupid points: one just plain badly constructed and the other just ignorant and sectarian can when having their arguments combined, and then explained in complete reverse can adequately describe the truth of St Kevin’s College history, status and performance.
On the History front St Kevin’s Mr Brady is 92 years old and as mentioned started as a finishing school for the other Christian Brothers Schools in Melbourne and at same stages even for regional schools such as St Pats Ballarat. The reason for such a system was because 92 years ago most Catholics or Micks as RMercadi refers to us were then poor Irish immigrants who simply could not afford to pay for their sons to complete their schooling due to the necessity of the money they could make as 16year olds in the workforce.
Therefore most students at SKC needed a scholarship to attend, like my Grandfather did who Mr Brady being a history buff might of read the well known football book his ghost-wrote called “Football The Australian Way” as a regular Heard football writer. He was one of many Australian Irish Catholics (Micks for RMercadi) who assisted by SKC scholarships and other Christian Brother schools around Australia’s scholarships has seen Irish-Catholic Australians become completely integrated into the Australian society. This is shown in the evidence of (Micks) reaching of every position of high statesmanship in the country. Such positions being Police Commissioners, High Court Judges and even a Prime Minister in Paul Keating).
Now listen carefully Mr Brady, because here is your dumb answer that despite your self promotion as a history buff you don’t know: as SKC operated solely as a finishing school for a significant period it could not enter the APS logically because an APS school has to field sporting sides for all year levels. Once St Kevin’s became a school with more year levels it then entered the APS when the organisation opened for new schools. This does not take away from the school’s age of 92 years but however displays the unity of one of the APS schools in number to have such good sporting strike rate against much larger schools.
Finally according to your logic Mr Brady we should all be bowing down to football might of the Melbourne Football Club with its successful traditions and premiership cups won when my parents where children rather than say a team that has won flags in my lifetime such as Hawthorn. Move on to lets say 1992 at first and work from their to the current day where at the moment SKC has made giant leaps to became one of the undisputed sporting, academic, and cultural leaders amongst schooling in l in Melbourne today and they should be praised for that fact. As for RMercadi, as a eighth generation Australian Mick and a third Generation product of SKC, it really makes feel proud that I went to an institution that helped people be judged on their merits and not sectarian lines. A irreversible situation that all ignorant people like you will never be able to change no matter why pathetic and sectarian your views.
Finally I bet you care about SKC when its students defeat yours in most sports and then take their spots at uni RMercadi. Alongside this maybe you should do some reading on your own AFL side. As your Mick reference looks really dumb when one look just past the colours of your jumper. You have a statue of the club’s Godfather outside your ground named Jack Dyer who once said “If you lived in Richmond, you were Catholic, voted Labor and barracked for Richmond. Whilst the club’s longest game holder is called K “Fish and Chips” Bartlett for a reason.
On the History front St Kevin’s Mr Brady is 92 years old and as mentioned started as a finishing school for the other Christian Brothers Schools in Melbourne and at same stages even for regional schools such as St Pats Ballarat. The reason for such a system was because 92 years ago most Catholics or Micks as RMercadi refers to us were then poor Irish immigrants who simply could not afford to pay for their sons to complete their schooling due to the necessity of the money they could make as 16year olds in the workforce.
Therefore most students at SKC needed a scholarship to attend, like my Grandfather did who Mr Brady being a history buff might of read the well known football book his ghost-wrote called “Football The Australian Way” as a regular Heard football writer. He was one of many Australian Irish Catholics (Micks for RMercadi) who assisted by SKC scholarships and other Christian Brother schools around Australia’s scholarships has seen Irish-Catholic Australians become completely integrated into the Australian society. This is shown in the evidence of (Micks) reaching of every position of high statesmanship in the country. Such positions being Police Commissioners, High Court Judges and even a Prime Minister in Paul Keating).
Now listen carefully Mr Brady, because here is your dumb answer that despite your self promotion as a history buff you don’t know: as SKC operated solely as a finishing school for a significant period it could not enter the APS logically because an APS school has to field sporting sides for all year levels. Once St Kevin’s became a school with more year levels it then entered the APS when the organisation opened for new schools. This does not take away from the school’s age of 92 years but however displays the unity of one of the APS schools in number to have such good sporting strike rate against much larger schools.
Finally according to your logic Mr Brady we should all be bowing down to football might of the Melbourne Football Club with its successful traditions and premiership cups won when my parents where children rather than say a team that has won flags in my lifetime such as Hawthorn. Move on to lets say 1992 at first and work from their to the current day where at the moment SKC has made giant leaps to became one of the undisputed sporting, academic, and cultural leaders amongst schooling in l in Melbourne today and they should be praised for that fact. As for RMercadi, as a eighth generation Australian Mick and a third Generation product of SKC, it really makes feel proud that I went to an institution that helped people be judged on their merits and not sectarian lines. A irreversible situation that all ignorant people like you will never be able to change no matter why pathetic and sectarian your views.
Finally I bet you care about SKC when its students defeat yours in most sports and then take their spots at uni RMercadi. Alongside this maybe you should do some reading on your own AFL side. As your Mick reference looks really dumb when one look just past the colours of your jumper. You have a statue of the club’s Godfather outside your ground named Jack Dyer who once said “If you lived in Richmond, you were Catholic, voted Labor and barracked for Richmond. Whilst the club’s longest game holder is called K “Fish and Chips” Bartlett for a reason.
I think the rose coloured glasses are being worn here...My posts aren't an attack on your school and they arent unstructured. Im meerely stating facts.
I never actually disputed the age of SKC, just stated (which is fact and no room to budge) that it joined the APS comp in 1958. Yes it is an older school than that, however all of those schools in the system before SKC had also been operating before the comp started in 1900 (technically 1908, however this is only when GC came. It had been going before then too).
Im sure your school is fantastic, "one of the finest institutions" etc. however to say it has overtaken XC due to the last win 2 weeks ago is farcical. Im not talking about anything else other than footy, there is a secondary education thread in the schools thread if people want to compare the schools there. And this is the point im getting at. XC is the premier footy school in the country. A few good years wont change that.
On your point about MFC, i've argued this already and my belief is yes they should be admired, they're the oldest club and wearing that jumper would be far more of an honour when you consider those who have worn it previously.
gb
I never actually disputed the age of SKC, just stated (which is fact and no room to budge) that it joined the APS comp in 1958. Yes it is an older school than that, however all of those schools in the system before SKC had also been operating before the comp started in 1900 (technically 1908, however this is only when GC came. It had been going before then too).
Im sure your school is fantastic, "one of the finest institutions" etc. however to say it has overtaken XC due to the last win 2 weeks ago is farcical. Im not talking about anything else other than footy, there is a secondary education thread in the schools thread if people want to compare the schools there. And this is the point im getting at. XC is the premier footy school in the country. A few good years wont change that.
On your point about MFC, i've argued this already and my belief is yes they should be admired, they're the oldest club and wearing that jumper would be far more of an honour when you consider those who have worn it previously.
gb
MontyMensch
Senior List
Greg, here our two major blunt facts that you might like to brush up on.
1. There are other Schools in Australia that our not APS Independent Private Schools in Victoria.
2. There are a range of Schools that play Football outside of Victoria.
For example what about the Christian Brothers school - Aquinas College in Perth which has produced: Peter Bell, Ben Allen, Simon Black, Daniel Kerr, Paul Duffield, Quinten Lynch, and now Nathan Fyfe to name just a few footballers.
Not to mention other athletes such as 1500m Olympic gold medallist Herb Elliot, Justin Langer and Terry Alderman. Bare this mind about Aquinas College for later.
You see the problem with your arguments is they are based on achievements achieved due to Social Restrictions from fifty years ago of socio-economic and Sectarian nature. The APS was setup to replica the Public Schools System home country by people in Melbourne who came to the city already as the “Haves”. The restricted the association to the fellow “Haves” in that all the competing schools were almost identical in religious and cultural areas with the exception of XC.
XC were the exception allowed in as a select few Jesuit schools are within the English Public Schools as the Jesuits as an order have always been the wealthiest and most intellectual. Most importantly, despite being Catholics the Jesuits are a Continental order with its roots in France and Rome not Ireland. The Christian Brothers running SKC were never allowed this opportunity as they was poor order (Hence they could not afford the money to become priests) teaching to make social differences for people with their same Irish backgrounds. The racist abuse many Muslims suffer today in Australia was very much the same for “Micks” (as written above) in early Australia and heavily Protestant populated Melbourne in particular.
There was no way that SKC firmly entrenched in Irish traditions in its Name, Building and School House names and even colours in the early years of the APS amongst the rife sectarian of the Melbourne “Haves” would have been able to join. In fact in the fifties, some sectarian elements still tried in vein to prevent SKC entering the APS. XC in fact, went into bat against one particular school close to SKC and the rest is history.
Now if you should look at Aquinas College who had no Jesuit school to compete with for the token Catholic position in the Perth PSA (St Louis’s always stressed an emphasis on study over sport in its ethos). This Christian Brother’s school with the aid of an extra fifty years of competition has record that SKC could amassed if having been accepted into the APS on school’s merits rather than “thinly veiled” barred for religious reasons.. I don’t how many AFL flags XC won exactly but I’m guessing Aquinas’s total of over 50 alongside being the leader in Athletics (also over 50), Swimming, Rowing, Cross Country and Hockey (Much larger sport in WA) looks still pretty impressive compared to it.
As for your ultimate respect for Melbourne, your comments really show the lack of insight you have on recruitment over the years in the AFL. There is a simple reason why Melbourne won almost all those flags. They went up to prospective players and offered them jobs stamping papers when wealthier supporters. Might not sound like a lot now but stamping papers rather digging ditches added ten years on to your life then. They reason their dominance came to a grinding halt was because eventually the other club’s supporters (Carlton, Collingwood Richmond in particular) began to money come their way as social structures began to break down creating a much larger middle class. These clubs started paying players significantly upright and Melbourne were left to watch on.
Which gets us back to XC: Why are they no longer doing any well and are not the premier Catholic School in football anymore because just like Melbourne their winning method (Scholarships rather than jobs) has been snatched by other sides.
But then again I forgot you’re a historian of the game who uses the terrific in depth historic analysis of looking at a set of numbers to dismiss particular sporting achievements yet praise others. Just a hint, all historians take a look past a stats sheet of when schools join comps and how many trophies they have won (This goes when study of sport history as well). They look at what the social, cultural, and economic reasons were for these occurrences and then make judgements.
1. There are other Schools in Australia that our not APS Independent Private Schools in Victoria.
2. There are a range of Schools that play Football outside of Victoria.
For example what about the Christian Brothers school - Aquinas College in Perth which has produced: Peter Bell, Ben Allen, Simon Black, Daniel Kerr, Paul Duffield, Quinten Lynch, and now Nathan Fyfe to name just a few footballers.
Not to mention other athletes such as 1500m Olympic gold medallist Herb Elliot, Justin Langer and Terry Alderman. Bare this mind about Aquinas College for later.
You see the problem with your arguments is they are based on achievements achieved due to Social Restrictions from fifty years ago of socio-economic and Sectarian nature. The APS was setup to replica the Public Schools System home country by people in Melbourne who came to the city already as the “Haves”. The restricted the association to the fellow “Haves” in that all the competing schools were almost identical in religious and cultural areas with the exception of XC.
XC were the exception allowed in as a select few Jesuit schools are within the English Public Schools as the Jesuits as an order have always been the wealthiest and most intellectual. Most importantly, despite being Catholics the Jesuits are a Continental order with its roots in France and Rome not Ireland. The Christian Brothers running SKC were never allowed this opportunity as they was poor order (Hence they could not afford the money to become priests) teaching to make social differences for people with their same Irish backgrounds. The racist abuse many Muslims suffer today in Australia was very much the same for “Micks” (as written above) in early Australia and heavily Protestant populated Melbourne in particular.
There was no way that SKC firmly entrenched in Irish traditions in its Name, Building and School House names and even colours in the early years of the APS amongst the rife sectarian of the Melbourne “Haves” would have been able to join. In fact in the fifties, some sectarian elements still tried in vein to prevent SKC entering the APS. XC in fact, went into bat against one particular school close to SKC and the rest is history.
Now if you should look at Aquinas College who had no Jesuit school to compete with for the token Catholic position in the Perth PSA (St Louis’s always stressed an emphasis on study over sport in its ethos). This Christian Brother’s school with the aid of an extra fifty years of competition has record that SKC could amassed if having been accepted into the APS on school’s merits rather than “thinly veiled” barred for religious reasons.. I don’t how many AFL flags XC won exactly but I’m guessing Aquinas’s total of over 50 alongside being the leader in Athletics (also over 50), Swimming, Rowing, Cross Country and Hockey (Much larger sport in WA) looks still pretty impressive compared to it.
As for your ultimate respect for Melbourne, your comments really show the lack of insight you have on recruitment over the years in the AFL. There is a simple reason why Melbourne won almost all those flags. They went up to prospective players and offered them jobs stamping papers when wealthier supporters. Might not sound like a lot now but stamping papers rather digging ditches added ten years on to your life then. They reason their dominance came to a grinding halt was because eventually the other club’s supporters (Carlton, Collingwood Richmond in particular) began to money come their way as social structures began to break down creating a much larger middle class. These clubs started paying players significantly upright and Melbourne were left to watch on.
Which gets us back to XC: Why are they no longer doing any well and are not the premier Catholic School in football anymore because just like Melbourne their winning method (Scholarships rather than jobs) has been snatched by other sides.
But then again I forgot you’re a historian of the game who uses the terrific in depth historic analysis of looking at a set of numbers to dismiss particular sporting achievements yet praise others. Just a hint, all historians take a look past a stats sheet of when schools join comps and how many trophies they have won (This goes when study of sport history as well). They look at what the social, cultural, and economic reasons were for these occurrences and then make judgements.
You're clearly a little over sensitive here mate. Im not trying to claim im a historian who knows all when it comes to APS football. Im just stating facts. XC have won 30-40 APS football titles from memory since joining in 1900. SKC have won 2 since joining in 1958 (97 and 09) which supports your argument that they took a while to become good. However, it is a double edged sword as it suggests had they been given an extra 50 years before 1958 they may still have only won two as they only became a force recently.
Saying wealth is the reason behind this and that SKC were no good because they didnt offer scholarships is ignorant. GGS is one of the wealthiest schools in the country yet they have won a similar amount of football titles as SKC. I'd strongly disagree if you said that wealthier people tend to make better footballers.
Football scholarships from what i've heard is a pretty new innitiative from around the early 90's (cant say if this is correct or not, but for the sake of the competetion i hope it is).
How can you be sure Xavier offered scholarships and that was the only reason they won. I have no idea however i dont know anyone who attended that school on a scholarship. And whilst they admit to two from recent years, it seems students are adament they dont give them out. To me it sounds a little bitter especially considering it is a well known fact SKC give football scholarships as well.
Again, i'll repeat i have nothing against SKC as ive said above they are now a force in the APS, i just disagree when people say they've overtaken Xavier due to a few good years.
gb
Mark McGough
Rookie
Go eat a potato Monty Mensch, you dirty Irish man.
MontyMensch
Senior List
Enjoy getting a touch in the WAFL Mark? only took you playing in the fourth best league in the country to find the footy a bit.
You missed my point entirely Greg, Wealth allowed schools such as XC an extra 50 years to rack up premierships SKC were enabled to win as the school spent this time evolving from a small finnishing school to one large enough to enter the APS.
Also I suppose you probably think England and Scotland are greater Soccer nations than Brazil and Italy as for years it was only them that played internationals for the world title.
The logic you use for the Melbourne Football Club and to downplay SKC recent success means this is a GREG BRADY LOGICAL CONCLUSION.
Stkevins have 3 year 11 scolarships and 1 year 12 now that tommy nicholls left.
Now basic shoplifting in NZ - this school really has some problems. Maybe send them to the AGSV for a cupla years as their punishment.
but the spoilt little shits at Xavier deserve everthing they are getting
Xavier:
Ted Richards
Luke Ball
Josh Kennedy [Sydney]
Jobe Watson
Robbie Tarrant
Mathew Spangher
Casey Sibiasido
Dan Hanneberry
Andrew Leoncelli
Mathew Ball
Andrew Schauble
Sam Shaw
just to name a few there are two very large honour boards at the school with many others.
in the Square
Senior List
More definitely, but in terms of quality, St Kevins seem to have produced better players, if not players who were more accomplished.
- Oct 16, 2006
- 4,897
- 11,933
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Melb Victory, Storm, Juve
Not house hold names, but here are a few others off the top of my head.
James Davies
Cayden Beetham
Cameron Hunter
Im sure there is 2 or 3 more
