Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

[Crankyhawk]

Beyond the content in that article being ******* awful, why is it in this thread? It was a s**t presentation that wasn't appropriately vetted, ran without adequate supervision, to universal condemnation.

From how I read the article it appears that the inappropriate presentation came from a belief of tolerance and acceptance (in that the presenter appears to say that the + of the LGBTQIA+ refers to other sexual preferences) - which can be seen as either a very left wing woke view or a parody of such view.

 

[faible]

Would that be the Abbott government's Safe Schools program you're talking about?

I don't believe Abbott had anything to do with it? Apart from being opposed to it.

It's a Victorian Government thing AFAIK

 

[Gough]

I don't believe Abbott had anything to do with it? Apart from being opposed to it.

It's a Victorian Government thing AFAIK

Colleagues contradict Tony Abbott's claim he was unaware of Safe Schools' rollout

Abbott says he spoke out against ‘terrible program’ when he became aware of it, but colleagues say the then prime minister defended it in party room

www.theguardian.com

Colleagues of Tony Abbott have cast doubt on his claim that the Safe Schools anti-bullying program was only rolled out under his government because he was unaware of it.

On Monday, Abbott elaborated on his government’s involvement in what he called a “terrible, terrible program”.

“It was initiated by the Gillard government. I regret to say it got rolling under my government,” he told 2GB Radio.

“Lots of things happen down in the bowels of the bureaucracy that the people at the top of the system aren’t aware of.

“But as soon as we were aware of [it] I spoke out against it, and to Malcolm Turnbull’s credit some action was taken against it,” he said, referring to reforms requiring parental consent to take part in the program.

“It’s a very good thing that the NSW government is now dropping this from schools.”

On Monday a senior Liberal source said that Abbott “knew all about” the program, and that the former prime minister had even defended it when senator Barry O’Sullivan criticised it in the party room in 2014.

And we're left with the ages old Abbott quandary, lying, incompetent or both?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Just thought it was an example of when social justicey type things go a bit weird

lol. This was a failure of school protocol in not having a teacher present and allowing a probable 20 year old doing a casual job talking to teens. If anything it sounds like some young lib a-hole.


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[Gethelred]

From how I read the article it appears that the inappropriate presentation came from a belief of tolerance and acceptance (in that the presenter appears to say that the + of the LGBTQIA+ refers to other sexual preferences) - which can be seen as either a very left wing woke view or a parody of such view.

And that's the point: the audience, their parents, the school, the education department, teachers and LBGTI+ representatives (who were also teachers) condemned the presentation.

Isn't this what people say they want when supposed inclusion goes too far? Community standards being upheld?

 

[sr36]

Would that be the Abbott government's Safe Schools program you're talking about?

They're state based. Most states have a mandatory curriculum that includes stuff that some consider woke. The dreaded acceptance of homosexuality and whatnot.

 

[Crankyhawk]

And that's the point: the audience, their parents, the school, the education department, teachers and LBGTI+ representatives (who were also teachers) condemned the presentation.

Isn't this what people say they want when supposed inclusion goes too far? Community standards being upheld?

Yes. So it is an example to show where the community standard is, as well as an example of whether the presentation is woke v parody (as in the presentation on its own outside of the community response)

 

[Bloods86]

Just thought it was an example of when social justicey type things go a bit weird

How on earth is it "woke" or social justicey if the presenter was talking about bestiality in relation to the + section of the LGBTQIA+ community? It's exactly the opposite, what slippery slope conservative types do.

 

[Gethelred]

Yes. So it is an example to show where the community standard is, as well as an example of whether the presentation is woke v parody (as in the presentation on its own outside of the community response)

I still don't get it.

 

[Crankyhawk]

How on earth is it "woke" or social justicey if the presenter was talking about bestiality in relation to the + section of the LGBTQIA+ community? It's exactly the opposite, what slippery slope conservative types do.

My read of the article was the presenter was of lgbtqia+ and detailing own experience, was trying to de stigmatise and explain what the parts of the acronym were. I don’t think they were trying to be a slippery slope conservative

 

[Bloods86]

My read of the article was the presenter was of lgbtqia+ and detailing own experience, was trying to de stigmatise and explain what the parts of the acronym were. I don’t think they were trying to be a slippery slope conservative

We don't know the motivations true, but the two concepts are not remotely related (LGBTQIA+ and bestiality), so instead of it being some form of "woke" or any element of social justice, they are just wrong, and still being anti social justicey (to co-opt the phrase).

 

[ElectricG]

We don't know the motivations true, but the two concepts are not remotely related (LGBTQIA+ and bestiality), so instead of it being some form of "woke" or any element of social justice, they are just wrong, and still being anti social justicey (to co-opt the phrase).

… come on man. You know what spirit the presenter was there in. Yes homosexuality has nothing to do with bestiality, but at least for this person their commitment to extreme tolerance has made them end up in a pretty weird place.

 

[sr36]

Yes but people can quickly check the height or age or facial symmetry and judge for themselves. Those are easily verifiable.

I think you're simply trying to discredit a term that has a clear, albeit subjective meaning - like many adjectives. The meaning is the same, but the examples that it can be attributed to vary depending on perspective.

 

[Crankyhawk]

We don't know the motivations true, but the two concepts are not remotely related (LGBTQIA+ and bestiality), so instead of it being some form of "woke" or any element of social justice, they are just wrong, and still being anti social justicey (to co-opt the phrase).

So the presenter would be more ignorant (and I will confess my own ignorance as to what preference the + can refer to - and agree it’s not bestiality as there are consent issues. Would it include for example sex dolls? No consent issue..)

 

[Bloods86]

So the presenter would be more ignorant (and I will confess my own ignorance as to what preference the + can refer to - and agree it’s not bestiality as there are consent issues. Would it include for example sex dolls? No consent issue..)

I guess my frustration here is this being presented as "woke" or social justice going wrong. It's not even remotely connected to these, this isn't some extreme end of the social justice spectrum. It's just someone who is wrong.

It will however, be used dishonestly to discredit or tarnish other factually-correct and well-delivered programs/content.

 

[Chief]

I think you're simply trying to discredit a term that has a clear, albeit subjective meaning - like many adjectives. The meaning is the same, but the examples that it can be attributed to vary depending on perspective.

Law makers and journalists should be less subjective.

Specially using pejoratives, IMO.

An MP's job is to scrutinise and vote on this stuff. "Stop Woke" and the like is just a hateful little con job when someone is using it as their election platform or the basis of policy making.

 

[sr36]

So the presenter would be more ignorant (and I will confess my own ignorance as to what preference the + can refer to - and agree it’s not bestiality as there are consent issues. Would it include for example sex dolls? No consent issue..)

The letters don't describe sexual acts - they describe the sexuality that people identify as. It just means other sexual identities not covered by the other categories - it's a catch all.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

… come on man. You know what spirit the presenter was there in. Yes homosexuality has nothing to do with bestiality, but at least for this person their commitment to extreme tolerance has made them end up in a pretty weird place.

No.

Not one person I have associated with in 15 years of socialist politics has ever made such a claim regarding beastiality.

At its most innocent it sounds like an undertrained person reaching for words in front of a class.

At worst, it’s a young lib making the familiar claim.

Nothing to do with woke this and that.

Won’t stop it from being g used next time some conservatives dipshits need to summon some outrage about an education program.

In the minds of idiots, woke can be attached to anything. Its definition is so elastic it will be used for this.


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[sr36]

Law makers and journalists should be less subjective.

Specially using pejoratives, IMO.

An MP's job is to scrutinise and vote on this stuff. "Stop Woke" and the like is just a hateful little con job when someone is using it as their election platform or the basis of policy making.

I agree with you.

I like the term woke for a couple of reasons:

a) it describes excessive political correctness and in my view that is a thing.

b) once again it shows that the right keep getting it wrong. they can't even get their insults right. and are choosing insults that also have a positive connotation - woke, social justice warrior

"Hey kid, choose your political team - do you want to be a warrior or a nutjob?"

 

[ElectricG]

At its most innocent it sounds like an undertrained person reaching for words in front of a class.

At worst, it’s a young lib making the familiar claim.

What if it’s exactly what it appears to be as per ABC’s reporting?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

What if it’s exactly what it appears to be as per ABC’s reporting?

The report indicates there was no teacher present which is a school failure.

The ABC report doesn’t include the level of training the person received, or how old they were.

There is no ‘woke’ movement to legitimate beastiality.


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[kranky al]

For the most part it's fair argument that Jan and Joe public don't use 'woke' as a pejorative, merely an observation of the irrational, those that do use it as a pejorative are those with fringe right views.

Same with rwnj, those that use that are usually the emotionally irrational.

Whichever way it is used the term is incorrect to define the irrational.

Id bet any money that if you were to count the usage of the two terms used as pejorative’s in all Australian media - it would run somewhere at 1000-1

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

How is woke different from political correctness?


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[Scallop Industry Thug]

For the most part it's fair argument that Jan and Joe public don't use 'woke' as a pejorative, merely an observation of the irrational, those that do use it as a pejorative are those with fringe right views.

Same with rwnj, those that use that are usually the emotionally irrational.

Whichever way it is used the term is incorrect to define the irrational.

The original thread about woke was just locked after 10,000 posts.


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[ElectricG]

The report indicates there was no teacher present which is a school failure.

The ABC report doesn’t include the level of training the person received, or how old they were.

There is no ‘woke’ movement to legitimate beastiality.


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I think you’re just coming up with excuses. It’s clear that this is a bizarre incident caused by a progressive person. Agree that there isn’t a progressive pro-bestiality movement that exists in any significant number, but progressive thinking and activism do appear to be the origins of this incident.

You agree it’s fking insane. Why do you wince when someone uses a pejorative to describe it?