Toast Welcome to the Temple of Bontempelli, please take off your shoes and pay your respects

[bobs head soup]

Whitten played in a much easier time and still doesn't have the accolades near Bont

Bont is the greatest already now it's just how big the margin will be by

In fairness to Whitten, the accolades Bont has were largely unavailable to players in his day.

He was voted Captain of the Bulldogs and the VFL/AFL Team of the Century.

That'll be a hard accolade for anyone to top.

Both were our champions of their era. Ranking them means little

 

[conrad_437]

You can't rank them because one played at a time where the league was as amateur as it gets. It is literally impossible to compare the two accurately because the league circumstances were so different. We can only compare Bont, realistically, to players since the 80s and 90s where the VFL/AFL began to equalise (slowly) and the league became increasingly full time for players. Bont is probably our first 'undisputed' best in the league type player since then.

 

[Foxman98]

Yep, when lots of players had jobs, some of them even worked Saturday mornings before games. Their photos in newspapers were usually always at night at training, because they would have been sacked accepting or even contemplating an interview during work hours.

Harvey Stevens famously left his boots at home on GF day 1954, as he was working as a butcher that morning in Preston.

How easy is that?!

Well that's the point you're having a dart and beer at HT playing against blokes forgetting their boots

 

[King Harold]

Whitten played in a much easier time and still doesn't have the accolades near Bont

Bont is the greatest already now it's just how big the margin will be by

Just say that again ?

” Whitten played in a much easier time “ wtf

 

[Foxman98]

Just say that again ?

” Whitten played in a much easier time “ wtf

You're going to pretend like the skill level in the 1950s is even remotely comparable to now?

 

[King Harold]

Well that's the point you're having a dart and beer at HT playing against blokes forgetting their boots

I suggest you do a little research, and have a little read of how EJ’s first game went down.

 

[Foxman98]

I suggest you do a little research, and have a little read of how EJ’s first game went down.

No doubting he was a great footballer but the level of football now compared to then is completely different, They were essentially what local footy is now

 

[Wocka]

...so you're not going to do any research?

 

[TiAn_]

Whitten played in a much easier time and still doesn't have the accolades near Bont

Bont is the greatest already now it's just how big the margin will be by

Never saw Whitten play so I’m not going to make a call on that, but how was it any easier relative to Whitten? It’s not like he transported back there from 2023. You can only properly judge a player against their own era.

I also wouldn’t base it on volume of accolades as a measure. They just didn’t hand out awards like they do now. I will say though that Whitten was named the captain and CHB of the AFL team of the 20th century. That’s an incredible accomplishment that Bont would be hard pressed to equal.

 

[Foxman98]

Never saw Whitten play so I’m not going to make a call on that, but how was it any easier relative to Whitten? It’s not like he transported back there from 2023. You can only properly judge a player against their own era.

I also wouldn’t base it on volume of accolades as a measure. They just didn’t hand out awards like they do now. I will say though that Whitten was named the captain and CHB of the AFL team of the 20th century. That’s an incredible accomplishment.

The standard of football in the 50s due to its lack of professionalism was clearly not even remotely as good as it is today it's a pretty simple concept to grasp surely,

It's also hard to take the team of the century seriously now none of the top 5 highest ever goal kickers are named in the team and was clearly more or less voted on with nostalgia in mind.

As for awards they had AA back then he only made 1 Bont now 5 VC twice robbed of C this year and BnF Ted 5 Bont currently 4 but we all know will be 5 shortly so only has to win another 1 and he has him well and truly covered

Again I am sure Ted was an absolute fantastic footballer for his era but Bonts domination now in a substantially better era eclipses that

 

[Foxman98]

...so you're not going to do any research?

What is there to research? Was 1950's football professional? No it wasn't so what's the point in pretending they're comparable?

 

[King Harold]

You're going to pretend like the skill level in the 1950s is even remotely comparable to now?

Skill level far better now overall , but of course being full time ,superior fitness and playing surfaces make it “ far easier “for the current generation. Plus these days they don’t need to worry as much about who his around to send them into a comas.
Also only 12 teams back then , big dilution of talent now with 18 teams.

But I am guessing you didn’t see Skilton , Baldock , Hudson ,Jezza and too many more to mention ?

But we all agree Bont is right up there —- yep he’s a freak !

 

[Foxman98]

Skill level far better now overall , but of course being full time ,superior fitness and playing surfaces make it “ far easier “for the current generation. Plus these days they don’t need to worry as much about who his around to send them into a comas.
Also only 12 teams back then , big dilution of talent now with 18 teams.

But I am guessing you didn’t see Skilton , Baldock , Hudson ,Jezza and too many more to mention ?

But we all agree Bont is right up there —- yep he’s a freak !

That's the point I am making you didn't have the same level of professionalism making it a substantially lower quality of football,

Tactics where almost non existent it was just go king hit someone behind play

 

[Dog 36]

That's the point I am making you didn't have the same level of professionalism making it a substantially lower quality of football,

Tactics where almost non existent it was just go king hit someone behind play

That comment is disrespectful to many a good footballer and coaches.

King Hits were more common in the 70's and 80's FYI

 

[Foxman98]

That comment is disrespectful to many a good footballers.

King Hits were more common in the 70's and 80's

How so?

What defensive/stoppage/forward structures did the coaching groups implement back then?

 

[Dog 36]

How so?

What defensive/stoppage/forward structures did the coaching groups implement back then?

For obvious reasons they do not have structures and the like as they do now BUT they would have some type of instructions and plan that did not encompass solely king hit someone behind play.

 

[bobs head soup]

How so?

What defensive/stoppage/forward structures did the coaching groups implement back then?

I get what you are saying but players can only be compared to the competition and standards of the day.

Bradman scored all of his runs against amateur bowlers, but does his statistical dominance still make him the all time #1?

Jack Nicklaus never hit it as far as modern players, but was he as good a golfer?

Dawn Fraser swam in a far less advanced era, does that mean she doesn't stack up to modern greats?

 

[geoffjennings79]

How so?

What defensive/stoppage/forward structures did the coaching groups implement back then?

You're missing the point from all of us.

In the 50s and 60s, and still into the 70s, the skill level may have been less (although I'd like to see a modern player execute a drop kick, torpedo or stab pass), but life onfield and in general was tougher.

Players worked full time, 5 days a week or even Sat mornings. Onfield was treacherous due to the (largely un-policed) physicality and sometimes outright brutality.

Many good or very good players were enticed away from VFL while still relatively young by more $$$ in country Vic or interstate because there was bugger all money in the sport compared to today.

They are different eras, but to say Whitten or other older players had it easier is just ignorant of the times.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

That's the point I am making you didn't have the same level of professionalism making it a substantially lower quality of football,

Tactics where almost non existent it was just go king hit someone behind play

Ahem, I think you mean “shop early and avoid the rush”…

 

[TiAn_]

The standard of football in the 50s due to its lack of professionalism was clearly not even remotely as good as it is today it's a pretty simple concept to grasp surely,

It's also hard to take the team of the century seriously now none of the top 5 highest ever goal kickers are named in the team and was clearly more or less voted on with nostalgia in mind.

As for awards they had AA back then he only made 1 Bont now 5 VC twice robbed of C this year and BnF Ted 5 Bont currently 4 but we all know will be 5 shortly so only has to win another 1 and he has him well and truly covered

Again I am sure Ted was an absolute fantastic footballer for his era but Bonts domination now in a substantially better era eclipses that

What you’re saying isn’t confusing, it’s just the way you’re comparing the players is a bit silly. Any modern player would have huge advantages in that era. So for evaluating players it’s a useless path to go down.

The other stuff you’re saying doesn’t really stack up either. E.g. They only did the AA after interstate carnivals, so there were only about half a dozen AA teams in Ted’s whole 20 year career.

 

[bresker]

Maybe we can just settle on them both being great players ?

Libba forgot his boots on GF day too but He wasn’t working in a butchers shop ….. or was it Biggs?

My ex’s grandad was a champion player in the bush in Berrigan, just over the border in NSW. Richmond came sniffing and took him down to Melbourne , but when he found out how little they were prepared to pay him, he took the next train back to the farm.

 

[ossie_21]

Holy *, what a stupid argument I just read through. There’s doubling down, tripling down and then whatever the hell Foxman is doing

Jesus died for sins like that

 

[King Harold]

The star’s of yesterday would still be stars of today.
F- me Skilton was like Libba but better.
EJ ,tough skilled could play anywhere would walk into any of todays teams and be a star.

Also Hudson Wade McKenna and plenty of others I could bang on about didn’t s—— themselves 35 out .
Can you honestly say that about Bont ?

 

[Foxman98]

The star’s of yesterday would still be stars of today.
F- me Skilton was like Libba but better.
EJ ,tough skilled could play anywhere would walk into any of todays teams and be a star.

Also Hudson Wade McKenna and plenty of others I could bang on about didn’t s—— themselves 35 out .
Can you honestly say that about Bont ?

Are you honestly trying to suggest that Bont who plays midfield at what not to long ago was considered KPP size would struggle against part timers?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Are you honestly trying to suggest that Bont who plays midfield at what not to long ago was considered KPP size would struggle against part timers?

"Part timers"?! Give up mate, seriously.