Taking sides over Dark Emu

[ferball]

I'm specifically not talking about indigenous communities. I'm talking about people claiming to be indigenous but aren't. People like the criminals born overseas who have been deported and are now saying they are indigenous.

It's not up to you to say whether those people are indigenous or not.

 

[Balls In]

It's not up to you to say whether those people are indigenous or not.

Of course not but who does have the final say? What is the criteria? That is the point. This whole, I'm indigenous because I say I am is bullcrud in an age where criminals are incentivied to identify as indigenous to avoid deportation. Or a writer to win an indigenous literary award and sell more books. Or an acedemic so-as to fill a quota on the university staff etc

 

[ferball]

There's a whole thread about it.

 

[CM86]

Of course not but who does have the final say? What is the criteria? That is the point. This whole, I'm indigenous because I say I am is bullcrud in an age where criminals are incentivied to identify as indigenous to avoid deportation. Or a writer to win an indigenous literary award and sell more books. Or an acedemic so-as to fill a quota on the university staff etc

So your issue is with white men taking advantage of Indigenous Australians?

And to combat this, you're making it harder for Indigenous Australian's with light skin.
You're helping to reignite this 'not black enough' discrimination.

You've got more of an issue with Pascoe than with Bolt.
Because Pascoe wrote a book years ago, claiming that Indigenous Australians were more advanced than we originally thought.


Always such a thin veil.

 

[EasternTiger]

Who's Biff?

LOL fantasy land. Your YouTube'a'palooza of RWNJs is certainly a world of varied and nuanced opinions and evidence.

Take part or feck orf.

Read the book, then attempt to engage intelligently.

It's frustrating investing time looking up specific references for someone who thinks a book is historically correct because Bolt criticised it and/or listened to a 15 minute podcast.

 

[Balls In]

So your issue is with white men taking advantage of Indigenous Australians?

And to combat this, you're making it harder for Indigenous Australian's with light skin.
You're helping to reignite this 'not black enough' discrimination.

Correct.
Incorrect.
Incorrect.

 

[E Shed]

Putting his money where his mouth is, literally.
This is the kind of industry that could save the environment in Australia. Developing food production from perenial non water hungry sources instead of the stupid reliance on imported crops.
What an awesome man.

'Time to embrace history of country': Bruce Pascoe and the first dancing grass harvest in 200 years

Writer’s farm in East Gippsland, Victoria, is producing native grains for flour and bread using traditional Aboriginal techniques

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kram]

For those that follow it closely has the bloke ever got around to providing any evidence that he has indigenous ancestry or is this simply something Bolt made up?

 

[QuietB]

For those that follow it closely has the bloke ever got around to providing any evidence that he has indigenous ancestry or is this simply something Bolt made up?

And further to this, for those that have followed it closely has anyone given any decent argument as to why his ancestry is relevant to writing a history book?

I just need to know so the state library can audit their collection and burn any history books or academic text that were not written by a native ancestor of the place studied and written about.

Should save a fair bit of money on any future expansion that may have otherwise been required.

 

[Chief]

has the bloke ever got around to providing any evidence that he has indigenous ancestry

Bruce Pascoe says Aboriginality queries an attempt to discredit Dark Emu

Author and historian Bruce Pascoe says he believes attempts to discredit his award-winning book Dark Emu are at the heart of allegations he is not Aboriginal.

www.smh.com.au

Issue kicked off by Josephine Cashman of course.

Professor Pascoe, 72, grew up unaware of any Indigenous heritage and did not identify as Aboriginal until he was 32.

He began researching his heritage after a conversation with his uncle.

Professor Pascoe has said he found Indigenous ancestors from both sides of his family, tracing from Tasmania, the Yuin people from the south coast of NSW and the Boonwurrung (commonly written as Bunurong) people.

The widely accepted definition of Indigenous heritage in Australia comprises three parts: self-identification, evidence of descent and community recognition.
Yuin elder, Pastor Ossie Cruse, questioned why Professor Pascoe’s Aboriginality was being disputed when he was accepted by his community.

“It does concern me because I don’t think anybody needs that, what’s the gain in it, particularly a person who has really had a hard life and found out they were of Aboriginal descent,” Pastor Cruse told The Sunday Age.

It's just politicisation of cultural/racial identity.

Professor Pascoe has acknowledged his links are distant, writing in his latest essay collection Salt that “clinical analysis of genes says I’m more Cornish than Koori''.

“I am sure a lot of non-Aboriginal people think that pale-skinned Aboriginal people shouldn’t identify, especially when it goes back to great grandmothers and great grandfathers and I understand that,” Professor Pascoe told The Sunday Age.

Ken Wyatt defends Indigenous author Bruce Pascoe against attacks over heritage

The Indigenous Australians Minister criticised a member of a key government advisory body for targeting Pascoe.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Gough]

Didn't the court anointed racist make a big song and dance about gagging himself from commenting on First Nations issues because ever the poor victim in things, he's being silenced by "the man". That was much better because as it stands all he does is give idiots stupid ideas.

 

[Kram]

“I am sure a lot of non-Aboriginal people think that pale-skinned Aboriginal people shouldn’t identify, especially when it goes back to great grandmothers and great grandfathers and I understand that,” Professor Pascoe told The Sunday Age.

True, I'm in the same boat despite not identifying at all culturally but if anyone ever queried the ancestry all I'd have to do is pull out a couple of old family photos and a birth certificate as evidence to shut anyone up. Can he not do the something similar?

However, the Boonwurrung Land and Sea Council says it does not accept Professor Pascoe “as possessing any Boonwurrung ancestry whatsoever”.
“We have a sophisticated (and utilised in a recent Federal Court of Australia matter) ancestral database of all peoples/families who can rightfully claim to be of Boonwurrung (aka Bunurong) descent,” chairman Jason Briggs said in a statement.
“We believe that Mr Bruce Pascoe should come clean about his real ancestry and stop abusing and benefiting from our community’s cultural integrity.”

(Professor Pascoe responded by saying his connection to the Bunurong is through the Tasmanian family not through Central Victorian Bunurong.)
Aboriginal Land Council of Tasmania chairman Michael Mansell disputes that Professor Pascoe has Tasmanian Aboriginal ancestry.
“We are such a small community down here … we know who has Aboriginal ancestry in Tasmania,” Mr Mansell said.

?

 

[Chief]

True, I'm in the same boat despite not identifying at all culturally but if anyone ever queried the ancestry all I'd have to do is pull out a couple of old family photos and a birth certificate as evidence to shut anyone up. Can he not do the something similar?



?

We can go back and forth in the article:

Professor Marcia Langton, the foundation chair in Australian Indigenous Studies at the University of Melbourne, rejected questions about Professor Pascoe’s Aboriginality and says all the references in Dark Emu are correct.

“I don't agree with running a campaign against an individual like this, I think this is unconscionable behaviour and I think most Aboriginal people would agree, not something that another Aboriginal people would do knowing what our history has been,” she told National Indigenous Television.

“We all know that it is very difficult for some Aboriginal people to prove they are Aboriginal because of lack of records, because of members of the family lying, because of shame about having Aboriginal ancestry, because of the hatred of Aboriginal people.”

She said as far as she was concerned the issue of Professor Pascoe’s Aboriginality was “settled”.

 

[campbell]

We can go back and forth in the article:

Professor Marcia Langton, the foundation chair in Australian Indigenous Studies at the University of Melbourne, rejected questions about Professor Pascoe’s Aboriginality and says all the references in Dark Emu are correct.

“I don't agree with running a campaign against an individual like this, I think this is unconscionable behaviour and I think most Aboriginal people would agree, not something that another Aboriginal people would do knowing what our history has been,” she told National Indigenous Television.

“We all know that it is very difficult for some Aboriginal people to prove they are Aboriginal because of lack of records, because of members of the family lying, because of shame about having Aboriginal ancestry, because of the hatred of Aboriginal people.”

She said as far as she was concerned the issue of Professor Pascoe’s Aboriginality was “settled”.

Imo, exactly how it is.

 

[Kwality]

The theory is Dutch survivors from the Batavia shipwreck taught the locals some European farming techniques.

On the east coast ?

 

[Kwality]

So your issue is with white men taking advantage of Indigenous Australians?

And to combat this, you're making it harder for Indigenous Australian's with light skin.
You're helping to reignite this 'not black enough' discrimination.

You've got more of an issue with Pascoe than with Bolt.
Because Pascoe wrote a book years ago, claiming that Indigenous Australians were more advanced than we originally thought.


Always such a thin veil.

There is nothing sinister in putting a book under a spotlight unless you have a closed mind on the issues.
The latest opinion on Dark Emu further opens Pascoes work to our history.
The idea that you are pro or anti today, begs the question of what you want to hide?

Remember Helen Demidenko & the Miles Franklin literary award of 1995.

 

[Kwality]

How many Aborigines in 2006 and 1996 ?

Do you think the numbers changed just due to more babies being born ?

Those numbers would be available, can be proven either way.

 

[Caesar]

I read it a while ago. It’s a good book. Not historically rigorous as it could be, but it’s not written by a historian so I think that is an unrealistic expectation.

Like most accessible popular histories, its main problem is that all historical accounts need to be read with a critical eye and in a context that the intended audience generally doesn’t have. Because of its accessibility there will be a lot of people who will lift their understanding of and opinions on certain issues and events from this book holus-bolus. That’s… not good.

But, that is more a problem with the audience than the book itself. I would encourage everyone to read it - then go out and read a whole lot more literature prior to forming an opinion on the subjects covered.

 

[Kwality]

I read it a while ago. It’s a good book. Not historically rigorous as it could be, but it’s not written by a historian so I think that is an unrealistic expectation.

Like most accessible popular histories, its main problem is that all historical accounts need to be read with a critical eye and in a context that the intended audience generally doesn’t have. Because of its accessibility there will be a lot of people who will lift their understanding of and opinions on certain issues and events from this book holus-bolus. That’s… not good.

But, that is more a problem with the audience than the book itself. I would encourage everyone to read it - then go out and read a whole lot more literature prior to forming an opinion on the subjects covered.

My copy is doing the rounds of family & friends (I'm popular temporarily). I need it back to check out for myself the latest claims.
I have been meaning to buy Bitter Harvest, now there is more & that it a good thing, unlike the noise we are in that space currently.

 

[Kwality]

'The world was waiting for Bruce's book.' Yes, but can the literary establishment cope with the fallout?

Australia's cultural institutions were quick to embrace Dark Emu, but now some say they bought into a 'myth' that desperately needs to be revised.

www.crikey.com.au

'If Dark Emu is as flawed as scholars Professor Peter Sutton and Dr Keryn Walshe suggest in their book Farmers or Hunter-Gatherers? The Dark Emu Debate, where does this leave Australia's literary and cultural institutions which have embraced Dark Emu and its author, Bruce Pascoe?

Veteran publisher Richard Walsh has several decades at the top of the industry in Australia and says Dark Emu has been a publishing phenomenon because ultimately it represents something Australians want to believe in, though it now "desperately" needs to be revised.'

There is more .....

 

[Chief]

It’s almost like review and revision is built into the scientific method and… jeez. It’s such a quandary isn’t it? Lucky us internet numpties are on the case.

 

[Kwality]

It’s almost like review and revision is built into the scientific method and… jeez. It’s such a quandary isn’t it? Lucky us internet numpties are on the case.

It can be informative ? Its not as if you have to take sides.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Just watched Rabbit Proof Fence. Inspirational ladies. The conditions and treatment not close to the truth though. Has been softened dramatically. The truth keeps getting hidden

 

[The Warlord]

Just watched Rabbit Proof Fence. Inspirational ladies. The conditions and treatment not close to the truth though. Has been softened dramatically. The truth keeps getting hidden

It is equally important for the colony to both deny just how brutal invasion and colonisation was/is and the reality of the society that was invaded and their land stolen.

It's why Rabbit Proof Fence has to be toned down (although there's likely a commercial element there too ... would people pay to see a realistic portrayal of the brutality?) yet something like Dark Emu has to be viciously and relentlessly attacked because it dares to present a reality where many Aboriginal societies, like say the Gunditjmara, were living far healthier and more prosperous lives than their average European counterparts in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

...yet something like Dark Emu has to be viciously and relentlessly attacked because it dares to present a reality where many Aboriginal societies, like say the Gunditjmara, were living far healthier and more prosperous lives than their average European counterparts in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.

That's not why it was 'attacked'.

It's been attacked because it was considered to be largely rubbish. Specifically it is offensive to some because it seems to denigrate the concept of 'leave it as you found it' as a weakness of the indigenous people, rather than an incredible strength.....and instead tries to suggest that they were in fact building s**t and were altering the land for their benefit and were progressive.

Some believe that that's firstly not true, and secondly that it plays into European views that indigenous people are a lesser race because they couldn't 'advance'. It perpetuates the European view that living in harmony with the land for 80000 years without f**king it up is a sign of failure.