South Africa's Parliament Votes to Confiscate White-Owned Land

[Malifice]

Land reform has to happen over there, no question. It's how it's done is the tricky question, I trust Ramaphosa has watched and learned from the Zimbabwean experience.

Compulsory acquisition for fair (market) compensation I have some time for. But even that should be a last resort.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Compulsory acquisition for fair (market) compensation I have some time for. But even that should be a last resort.

Why should taxpayers pay for something that is theres?

These farmers acquired that land illegally.

Do you see criminals getting paid by the police to hand back stolen goods?

 

[FireKrakouer]

Why should taxpayers pay for something that is theres?

These farmers acquired that land illegally.

Do you see criminals getting paid by the police to hand back stolen goods?

Do you own property in Australia? Unless you are indigenous, it is stolen. Would you hand it back without compensation?

Also, much of this farmland was negotiated on and paid for.

 

[Taylor]

The tribal politics of this are very interesting. Which group were living in the area and how was ownership transferred? Which group now make up the majority of SA and where did they live when the transfer took place?

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Do you own property in Australia? Unless you are indigenous, it is stolen. Would you hand it back without compensation?

Haha haha

What you've just done is a pethetic troll and somewhat racist. You've misrepresented a large genocide in this country to troll on a forum because the truth you can't handle.

 

[Gough]

If conservative politicians cared half as much about Apartheid at the time as they do the plight of the poor bloody Afrikaans farmer right now it might not have taken nearly fifty years to run the campaigners out of town.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Haha haha

What you've just done is a pethetic troll and somewhat racist. You've misrepresented a large genocide in this country to troll on a forum because the truth you can't handle.

Troll? Racist??

I'm guessing you don't want to answer the question, or acknowledge the rest of my post (or Taylor's post folllowing). I'd encourage you to hit the history books if you believe all this farmland is simply "stolen".

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Haha still no reply.
KV and Co won't say a bad word about south Africa because they support the actions of the SA government.

No reply to what?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Troll? Racist??

I'm guessing you don't want to answer the question, or acknowledge the rest of my post (or Taylor's post folllowing). I'd encourage you to hit the history books if you believe all this farmland is simply "stolen".

You tried to bluff with the indigenous thing here. That was a window to your soul.

If you're white in South Africa you have to accept what's coming to you. Remember Mandela also spoke for the whites caught in a horrible position and was gaoled and labelled a terrorist by British and Australian politicians.

Kinda feel sorry for the farmer who bought his wife a diamond wedding ring that was mined by black slaves and he had to pay compensation for the land he farmed and then have it taken off him anyway. Can't be any worse than a mother losing her son in a diamond mine he was a slave in

Cry me a river. You guys all up in arms have nothing to say about that.

 

[Taylor]

Sierra Leone?

Just as a side point, the dark skinned people living on the continent of Africa south of about Libya aren't a homogeneous group.

 

[FireKrakouer]

You tried to bluff with the indigenous thing here. That was a window to your soul.

If you're white in South Africa you have to accept what's coming to you. Remember Mandela also spoke for the whites caught in a horrible position and was gaoled and labelled a terrorist by British and Australian politicians.

Kinda feel sorry for the farmer who bought his wife a diamond wedding ring that was mined by black slaves and he had to pay compensation for the land he farmed and then have it taken off him anyway. Can't be any worse than a mother losing her son in a diamond mine he was a slave in

Cry me a river. You guys all up in arms have nothing to say about that.

Bizarre whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right. Atrocities committed in the distant past, or in separate countries, do not justify establishing a race-war in the present.

 

[Queensland13]

Land reform has to happen over there, no question. It's how it's done is the tricky question, I trust Ramaphosa has watched and learned from the Zimbabwean experience.

Mmmm nahhhh

 

[smokingjacket]

Sierra Leone?

Just as a side point, the dark skinned people living on the continent of Africa south of about Libya aren't a homogeneous group.

De Beers, the diamond company set up by Cecil Rhodes and now owned by Anglo-American has an atrocious labour track record in its South African mines and elsewhere in Africa. Claims of slave like conditions and indentured servitude followed the country for year until the end of apartheid.

So he is correct and you should apologise for your outrageous slur.

 

[Taylor]

De Beers, the diamond company set up by Cecil Rhodes and now owned by Anglo-American has an atrocious labour track record in its South African mines and elsewhere in Africa. Claims of slave like conditions and indentured servitude followed the country for year until the end of apartheid.

So he is correct and you should apologise for your outrageous slur.

Thanks for the history, I appreciate that, it sounds horrible but I haven't said anything that would offend anybody intentionally so I have nothing to apologise for.

Especially for a side point that is loaded with subtext refuting the claim of any black person to take land currently owned by a non-black person. There is a group who have absolute right to do it and there is the rest of the continent, they share a skin shade but that isn't important at least to me because if your ancestors weren't directly disenfranchised and instead chose to move to a prosperous area and now you choose to take up a cause you've lived in by weren't involved with to enrich yourself - then you're at the least dishonest and at the most as criminal as those who took (bought/traded - whatever process by which recognition of ownership was transferred) the land in the first place.

 

[smokingjacket]

Thanks for the history, I appreciate that, it sounds horrible but I haven't said anything that would offend anybody intentionally so I have nothing to apologise for.

Especially for a side point that is loaded with subtext refuting the claim of any black person to take land currently owned by a non-black person. There is a group who have absolute right to do it and there is the rest of the continent, they share a skin shade but that isn't important at least to me because if your ancestors weren't directly disenfranchised and instead chose to move to a prosperous area and now you choose to take up a cause you've lived in by weren't involved with to enrich yourself - then you're at the least dishonest and at the most as criminal as those who took (bought/traded - whatever process by which recognition of ownership was transferred) the land in the first place.

I interpreted it as you calling him a racist incapable of distinguishing between different African groups and histories.

I don't disagree with your second point but I don't think that's what is going on here. It's unequivocally a socialist land reform program to boost production and limit the awful effects of urban poverty and unemployment. It's closer to a South African New Deal than Australia's Native Title reforms.

 

[smokingjacket]

Interesting take on the subject from a centre-right economist.


The Promise and Peril of South African Land Reform
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...romise-and-peril-of-south-african-land-reform

The move is ostensibly about racial justice — white farmers own about 72 percent of the country’s individually owned farmland, which they wouldn’t own if not for colonialism and apartheid. The idea is to take some of that land and give it to black farmers. This is, naturally, a morally contentious issue — opponents will argue that since the current owners didn’t do the seizing, they’re entitled to compensation. But the policy is also about economics — South Africa’s unemployment rate has been rising and now is more than 27 percent, a rate higher than anything suffered by the U.S. during the depths of the Great Depression:

The government has been trying to put people to work by employing them in community and social services, but there’s only so much that can do. It might also be a good idea to consider sending restless unemployed people out into the countryside to farm.

There are good reasons to believe that this might work — not only to absorb the country’s surplus labor force, but to increase the country’s agricultural output as well. The reason is a curious fact about farming that defies the trend for many other industries: negative economies of scale.

In most industries, bigger is better; a huge factory can usually produce cars or computer chips more efficiently than a small one, while a large national chain store can optimize its purchasing and logistics more efficiently than a mom-and-pop shop. In agriculture, that’s also true in terms of overall productivity — a large mechanized farm doesn’t use much labor, allowing it to produce lots of food cheaply. But small farms, especially in developing countries, tend to be more efficient in their use of land.

 

[Number37]

De Beers, the diamond company set up by Cecil Rhodes and now owned by Anglo-American has an atrocious labour track record in its South African mines and elsewhere in Africa. Claims of slave like conditions and indentured servitude followed the country for year until the end of apartheid.

So he is correct and you should apologise for your outrageous slur.

When the South African provinces joined to become South Africa the nation they did so on the basis that the people would be subject to the same rights and privileges under the new South African constitution as they were under the old provincial constitutions.
Western Cape's constitution (might have been another province, can't remember right now) allowed both women and blacks to vote. Rhodes and his cronies held the other provinces to ransom ( most of the country's wealth at the time was held by Rhodes and his cronies) until they complied with their demands which included removing the right of both blacks and women to vote. In return they allocated 5 (again, can't remember the exact number) of seats in the new parliament to black representatives in lieu of giving blacks a vote.

 

[medusala]

When the South African provinces joined to become South Africa the nation they did so on the basis that the people would be subject to the same rights and privileges under the new South African constitution as they were under the old provincial constitutions.
Western Cape's constitution (might have been another province, can't remember right now) allowed both women and blacks to vote.

Yep under poms. What few realise (and press rarely mention) is that "whites" in SA isnt a homogenous group and there is plenty of dislike between those of Boer and Pom ancestry with plenty of the latter consistently opposing aparhtheid.

 

[medusala]

"But small farms, especially in developing countries, tend to be more efficient in their use of land"

See what happened in Zim. Farming is liked by third world govts because (depending on the crop) it can be labour intensive and thus solve typically the biggest issue in poor countries. Destroy the farms as per Zim and plenty of the black community suffer too. Its not as simple as what as made out.

The tribal politics of this are very interesting. Which group were living in the area and how was ownership transferred? Which group now make up the majority of SA and where did they live when the transfer took place?

Good questions.

 

[Proud SJW]

Yep under poms. What few realise (and press rarely mention) is that "whites" in SA isnt a homogenous group and there is plenty of dislike between those of Boer and Pom ancestry with plenty of the latter consistently opposing aparhtheid.

There are also plenty more who realise that, and understand that that particular point isn't confined to the whites.
Number37 is a racist whose understanding of history begins and ends with suggested reading concerning "White men behaving badly".

 

[medusala]

Land reform has to happen over there, no question. It's how it's done is the tricky question, I trust Ramaphosa has watched and learned from the Zimbabwean experience.

At least you recognise how hard the issue is. IIRC most Boers cant get a Euro passport (so i have been told by a number of them). They have nowhere to go and most of them would have inherited the land, so they are paying for the "sins" of others.

So how do you manage to buy their farms and keep employment stable (unlike Zim) and production up? What typically kills small farms in third world farms is lack of capital. They can't afford machinery, irrigation etc etc and all too often destroy the soil by overproduction. See eastern europe and tiny size of the average farm in say Poland. Banks wont lend to them.

Can't you just imagine Monsanto giving "advice" to the SA govt?

 

[Number37]

There are also plenty more who realise that, and understand that that particular point isn't confined to the whites.
Number37 is a racist whose understanding of history begins and ends with suggested reading concerning "White men behaving badly".

I'm not a racist but...
I can't be a racist because I have white friends...
No really, I get along like a house on fire with my white friends, we joke and laugh. Sometimes at gatherings we sing the national anthem.
Just last week we had a discussion about the scourge that is reverse racism. How dare non-white people question white people, how dare they? It is f'in outrage. "They" come to MY country and tell me what I can and can't say. F them fellows.
In joyful strains then let us sing, Addddddddddddvvvvvvvvvvvvvaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnce Auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuustraaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaa Fairrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[smokingjacket]

See what happened in Zim. Farming is liked by third world govts because (depending on the crop) it can be labour intensive and thus solve typically the biggest issue in poor countries. Destroy the farms as per Zim and plenty of the black community suffer too. Its not as simple as what as made out.

You obviously didn't read the article because the author directly addresses the Zimbabwe example, pointing out that despite its perjorative use as a scare campaign about land reform, most people aren't aware that Zimbawean food production is now higher than it was prior to the land reform. So if you want to blame the land reforms for the drop in production, you also need to explain the increase.

 

[Proud SJW]

I'm not a racist but...
I can't be a racist because I have white friends...
No really, I get along like a house on fire with my white friends, we joke and laugh. Sometimes at gatherings we sing the national anthem.
Just last week we had a discussion about the scourge that is reverse racism. How dare non-white people question white people, how dare they? It is f'in outrage. "They" come to MY country and tell me what I can and can't say. F them fellows.
In joyful strains then let us sing, Addddddddddddvvvvvvvvvvvvvaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnce Auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuustraaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaa Fairrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Jeez. I usually come on here pissed to the eyeballs, and sometimes what I write shows it - but you, mate, are batshit crazy.

What the hell is "reverse racism"?

 

[Number37]

Jeez. I usually come on here pissed to the eyeballs, and sometimes what I write shows it - but you, mate, are batshit crazy.

What the hell is "reverse racism"?

It's when you are reversing and have to yell racist abuse.