South Africa's Parliament Votes to Confiscate White-Owned Land

[Mofra]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...n/news-story/a8a81155995b1adc1c399d3576c4c0bc

SOUTH Africa’s parliament has voted in favour of a motion that will begin the process of amending the country’s Constitution to allow for the confiscation of white-owned land without compensation.

The motion was brought by Julius Malema, leader of the radical Marxist opposition party the Economic Freedom Fighters, and passed overwhelmingly by 241 votes to 83 against. The only parties who did not support the motion were the Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Cope and the African Christian Democratic Party.

It was amended but supported by the ruling African National Congress and new president Cyril Ramaphosa, who made land expropriation a key pillar of his policy platform after taking over from ousted PM Jacob Zuma earlier this month.

“The time for reconciliation is over. Now is the time for justice,” Mr Malema was quoted by News24 as telling parliament. “We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land.”

According to Bloomberg, a 2017 government audit found white people owned 72 per cent of farmland in South Africa.

We've seen this happen in recent history - in Zimbabwe, which quickly became an economic basket-case as the land-owning knowledge quickly evaporated and crop yields diminished sharply.

I'd suggest the chances of the same thing playing out in SA are high, especially considering many white SA farmers are leaving the land as it remains one of the deadliest occupations in the world.

Another example of ideology trumping reality.

 

[Malifice]

Zimbabwe 2.0.

Crazy.

 

[King Brown]

Entirely predictable.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

EFF on land expropriation: 'No one will lose their house'

20:26 27/02/2018 Jan Gerber

Cape Town – "No one is going to lose his or her house. No one is going to lose his or her flat. No one is going to lose his or her factory or industry."

These were the words of EFF leader Julius Malema on the steps of the National Assembly, shortly after the House adopted his motion, which opens the way for the Constitution to be amended to allow land expropriation without compensation.

The motion was passed with the support of the ANC, IFP, NFP, UDM, Agang, AIC and APC.

This means that Parliament's Constitutional Review Committee, which comprises members from both Houses of Parliament, will have to report back to the National Assembly by August 30 and its process will include public hearings.

"There is no motion there saying expropriation of rural land. We're saying expropriation of land without compensation. So the question of urban or rural doesn't arise," said Malema.

"Every land in South Africa should be expropriated without compensation and it will be under the state. The state should be the custodian of the land," he explained.

"No one is going to lose his or her house, no one is going to lose his or her flat, no one is going to lose his or her factory or industry. All [that] we are saying is they will not have the ownership of the land," he said.

"They will have a lease, depending on what the arrangement is, particularly as it relates to the outcome of the Constitutional review process.

"You'll see, once we find land is owned by the state, we're going to find a lot of idle land which is not being used for any purpose. And that land should then immediately be made available to be used, particularly by the previously disadvantaged people."

The EFF is not 'going to war'

He said the EFF is not "going to war", but is "using the instruments and the institutions of democracy to achieve the founding principles of the liberation in South Africa".

The DA, which governs in three metro's with the EFF's support, did not support the motion.

Malema issued a "warning shot" to the DA.

He said on April 6, the day on which Jan van Riebeeck arrived at the Cape in 1652 and the day of Solomon Mahlangu's death, they will support a motion of no confidence in the mayor of the Nelson Mandela Bay municipality Athol Trollip.

"It will depend what is the attitude of the DA when the committee starts, because PE is the attitude in the chamber now and then in the committee, if their attitude continues, Jo'burg will follow, in the committee, if the attitude continues, Tshwane will follow," Malema warned.

An ANC mayor with integrity

He said they will support an ANC mayor with integrity and mentioned former deputy finance minister Mcebisi Jonas.

According to Malema, Trollip was a "victim of the attitude of his own party".

The DA released a statement on Tuesday evening, explaining that it was "completely committed to redressing the history of violent land dispossession" and recognised the unjust legacy left behind.

"We view land reform as a social justice imperative which all South Africans must rally around," DA land Reform spokesperson and MP Thandeka Mbabama said.

She said the DA did not support the motion because it preferred a model which saw emerging black farmers as dynamic business people and entrepreneurs who were entrusted with full title and ownership of the land.

"The current approach by the ANC government sees the state as 'benevolent' custodians of all land, with individual black farmers denied the opportunity to really own land. This, we argue, is not real land reform. This is permanent tenancy and dependency," Mbabama said.

"Expropriation without compensation would severely undermine the national economy, only hurting poor black people even further. We therefore cannot support such an approach."

The ANC caucus in Parliament and its women's league welcomed the passing of the motion.

Transforming economy

"The ANC in Parliament appreciates the need to take bold steps that will transform our economy including land ownership and reform.

"This resolution therefore heralded a new era of intensified land distribution to address the long-standing national grievance of African people around land dispossession," read a statement from the office of the ANC chief whip.

"We look forward to the outcome of the Constitutional Review processes on the modalities of expropriation of land without compensation. As the ANC in Parliament, we will closely monitor this process."

The ANC Women's League said it was excited, "irrespective of which political party tabled the motion, for the benefit of the landless masses who were displaced by the unjust laws of colonialism and apartheid".

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...riation-no-one-will-lose-their-house-20180227

 

[Malifice]

Fascist racists. Oh wait, the left will approve this

It's precisely this sort of mindless shit posting ive asked you to cut out.

 

[Gough]

Begin the process of amending sounds like there's still a fair bit of water to flow under the bridge. Malema being at the forefront concerns me, he's bad news.

 

[workhorse]

Zimbabwe 2.0.

Crazy.

Thought the exact thing when I read the beginning of the article

 

[ChampRevesby]

It has a lot of support from all reports, I wouldn't be surprised if the abolishment of property rights was just the beginning. Interesting times.

 

[Mofra]

It has a lot of support from all reports, I wouldn't be surprised if the abolishment of property rights was just the beginning. Interesting times.

RN had a very interesting interview last week which talked about the power brokers within the three branches of the ANC with the biggest being the branch that relies mostly on poor, uneducated non-urban supporters for their numbers.
That kind of demographic lends itself to populist politics (see Brexit/Trump) where ideology is the first, second and only consideration of policy.

 

[King Brown]

RN had a very interesting interview last week which talked about the power brokers within the three branches of the ANC with the biggest being the branch that relies mostly on poor, uneducated non-urban supporters for their numbers.
That kind of demographic lends itself to populist politics (see Brexit/Trump) where ideology is the first, second and only consideration of policy.

Incorrect parallel.

 

[ChampRevesby]

RN had a very interesting interview last week which talked about the power brokers within the three branches of the ANC with the biggest being the branch that relies mostly on poor, uneducated non-urban supporters for their numbers.
That kind of demographic lends itself to populist politics (see Brexit/Trump) where ideology is the first, second and only consideration of policy.

That kind of demographic (the proletariat) used to be championed by the Socialists/Marxists but they have lost their strangle hold on them and have been substituted by the isolationists. Strange.

 

[smokingjacket]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...n/news-story/a8a81155995b1adc1c399d3576c4c0bc



We've seen this happen in recent history - in Zimbabwe, which quickly became an economic basket-case as the land-owning knowledge quickly evaporated and crop yields diminished sharply.

I'd suggest the chances of the same thing playing out in SA are high, especially considering many white SA farmers are leaving the land as it remains one of the deadliest occupations in the world.

Another example of ideology trumping reality.

Maybe, but equally is it sustainable in the long term for a white minority of around 9% to own 72% of the agricultural land outside of the Afrikaans states? Where there's an unemployment rate of 26.6%? Where much so much of the country lives just above the extreme poverty line? Such extreme economic inequality is a political choice. Personally the main argument I would find against it is that you might find some work for people, you might pull some people out of urban poverty, but you're unlikely to generate much long term economic growth from small scale agriculture unless the South African government has some major irrigation plans to turn some of these areas in to an intensive ag-system. The current model of industrialisation isn't working though, so you can't blame them for trying something else when there's so much extreme misery and inequality. Major qualifications being the extreme corruption of the ANC; lack of compensation as vengeance as policy; the competence of the South African bureaucracy to implement such a radical policy.

If inequality wasn't so racialised in South Africa you could look at this as pure economic reform.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Begin the process of amending sounds like there's still a fair bit of water to flow under the bridge. Malema being at the forefront concerns me, he's bad news.

The guy is absolutely insane, I can’t believe this is actually happening, history repeating itself and it’s not like what happened in Zimbabwe is ancient history.

I remember when Mandela died a lot of experts said it was only a matter of time before the country went into turmoil again because most were keeping the peace out of respect.
Unbelievable that this is happening in 2018, this isn’t the way to fix the past.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Guy is off his head.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Guy is off his head.

Very dangerous rhetoric. I would leave now if I was a white fella.

 

[King Brown]

Maybe, but equally is it sustainable in the long term for a white minority of around 9% to own 72% of the agricultural land outside of the Afrikaans states? Where there's an unemployment rate of 26.6%? Where much so much of the country lives just above the extreme poverty line? Such extreme economic inequality is a political choice. Personally the main argument I would find against it is that you might find some work for people, you might pull some people out of urban poverty, but you're unlikely to generate much long term economic growth from small scale agriculture unless the South African government has some major irrigation plans to turn some of these areas in to an intensive ag-system. The current model of industrialisation isn't working though, so you can't blame them for trying something else when there's so much extreme misery and inequality. Major qualifications being the extreme corruption of the ANC; lack of compensation as vengeance as policy; the competence of the South African bureaucracy to implement such a radical policy.

If inequality wasn't so racialised in South Africa you could look at this as pure economic reform.

Hard to see this as anything other than a culture of resentment.

 

[Gough]

Hard to see this as anything other than a culture of resentment.

Do some reading.

 

[smokingjacket]

Hard to see this as anything other than a culture of resentment.

That argument veers closely towards all redistribution being about resentment. This policy would be far less contentious and might even be an example of nationalist populism if the land owner class wasn't overwhelmingly white.

The Australian example of breaking up the squatter estates and placing restrictions on Britain-based owned sheep runs is usually portrayed as saving Australian from sliding into a plantation economy and building the fledgling Australian democracy.

 

[King Brown]

Do some reading.

What would you suggest?

That argument veers closely towards all redistribution being about resentment. This policy would be far less contentious and might even be an example of nationalist populism if the land owner class wasn't overwhelmingly white.

The Australian example of breaking up the squatter estates and placing restrictions on Britain-based owned sheep runs is usually portrayed as saving Australian from sliding into a plantation economy and building the fledgling Australian democracy.

I don't think the EFF have any other aim in mind other than revenge against whites. Very few are arguing that the 'reforms' will make South Africa more prosperous and those doing so are doing it with a forked tongue.

At least we can still all laugh at Lang Hancock's woefully bad prediction. South Africa will continue backsliding to resemble most of the rest of that continent.

 

[Gough]

Context is needed too, and it perhaps helps explain the rise of Malema. I'm 45 years old, if I was a black South African I would be educated to perhaps a year 9 level if I was lucky, in Afrikaans not my native tongue, and my life would have been destined for servitude in the mines or as a manual worker. That a majority government is now in place wouldn't change my situation and you can see how a populist like Malema could take advantage of that, particularly when you also look at the corruption and infighting that seem to have concerned the ANC of late more than actual governing.

 

[KBLT]

Whether this is just a socioeconomic reform or the beginning of something more remains to be seen. Although, Malema is a concerning and possibly dangerous symptom of the racial inequality problem. Something about him makes me worry.

 

[Gough]

What would you suggest?

Mind of South Africa by Sparks is a good general history, but the two I'd recommend are Country of My Skull by Antjie Krog and My Traitor's Heart by Rian Malan.

 

[smokingjacket]

What would you suggest?

I don't think the EFF have any other aim in mind other than revenge against whites. Very few are arguing that the 'reforms' will make South Africa more prosperous and those doing so are doing it with a forked tongue.

At least we can still all laugh at Lang Hancock's woefully bad prediction. South Africa will continue backsliding to resemble most of the rest of that continent.

Land redistribution has widespread support outside of the EFF though. Land reform won't make South Africa prosperous on the level of Australia or Europe but it has the possibility of taking millions out of the slums and into a life of dignity, home and land ownership with all of the things we know that lead to like civic engagement and improved education. It has serious potential as policy, you're probably broadly right but I wouldn't write it all off as race baiting, there's a genuine desire to build a fairer economy for huge numbers of people disenfranchised with limited skills and education.

For any readers unaware of what King Brown was referring to, Lang Hancock famously believed that apartheid was a better basis for society than one with unions. Truly one of our great minds.
“I think there will be a trade union dictatorship in Australia. I think it is inevitable, the way things are going at the moment. I can’t see anyone standing up against it at the moment simply because there are no men of stature to stand up against it. It will decay, of course, as all dictatorships decay, I don’t know how long it will last. But the capital now coming in to Australia will go elsewhere. Rhodesia, South Africa, they will be the last bastions of stable government.”

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Was talking to a couple of friends who only recently got back from Joburg - both bailed around 10-12 years ago, and they said they were astonished how much more on edge things seem.

One runs in political circles (albeit DA ones, so he views things through a relatively conservative prism) - he says there's serious chatter about punitive-level taxes for migrants. "You want to pack for Perth, you'll do it with the rags on your back and nothing else" type mentality. Can't see the ANC's powerbrokers wanting to make it harder to shift their coin around, but Malema seems like the type to give something like that a crack.

 

[smokingjacket]

Was talking to a couple of friends who only recently got back from Joburg - both bailed around 10-12 years ago, and they said they were astonished how much more on edge things seem.

One runs in political circles (albeit DA ones, so he views things through a relatively conservative prism) - he says there's serious chatter about punitive-level taxes for migrants. "You want to pack for Perth, you'll do it with the rags on your back and nothing else" type mentality. Can't see the ANC's powerbrokers wanting to make it harder to shift their coin around, but Malema seems like the type to give something like that a crack.

It's ridiculously easy to circumvent capital controls these days for the elite. Would mostly be a disincentive for lower middle class to leave/would restrict who could come in to Australia with the capital test for migration.