List Mgmt. Should The Eagles Request A Priority Assistance Package at The End of This Year?

Should The Eagles Request A Priority Assistance Package at The End of This Year?

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Anything we get should simply right the wrongs of the compromised drafts. A couple of end of first rounders (say picks 19 and 20 which is what we should have had anyway this year and last) and access to our academy kid (who we should have been able to draft last year if not for all the compromises).

Simples.
 
chaddy22 said:
If they don't give us a compo then maybe the following.
Our second pick which is likely pick 19 needs to be pick 19 and not blown out to pick 30 by academies and father and sons.
Secondly if Malakai Champion is not picked by pick 20 we should be able to match.
Click to expand...
We should be able to match NGA's exactly like the northern clubs.
 

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Part of an ongoing package to assist with the effects of travel. 5 extra interchanges each quarter for WA teams. +1 for NSW and SA teams, (same for Tas eventually) and +2 for QLD teams. Plus 300k,150,100k into the soft cap for those 3 groups again only to be spent on recovery staff and processes. +3,1,1 rookie spots for those groups.

I think outside of the rules blowing us apart and the natural fall away the reduction in interchange combined with travel is one of the largest factors on the club and in particular injuries.

Outside of picks over the long term I think this would provide a more natural balance, doesn't effect clubs in terms of picks and allows clubs to keep an extra 1-3 players to allow for the extra travel. Allow those extra/last rookie spots to be used to directly transfer players with 6+ years in the system or over the age of 25 directly from main to rookie list.

Means as an example you can keep your guys who are realistically on the edge of too good for state footy but not good enough for AFL to allow for injury, shorter careers and for on field leadership and development of juniors.

Yes as a club the WCE are in a horrible spot but it is not all of the clubs doing. Yes decisions could have been made and better drafting would have helped. However you can't in the case of a couple of years change your entire team list and playstyle due to a combination of rule changes, reduced interchanges and in particular the reduced soft cap which had more of an effect on the WCE than any other club as we had the most bloated / biggest number of support staff and have the largest travel burden.
 
EagleJack42 said:
Another myth is the "North are 3-years ahead" of West Coast in their rebuild.

Results don't suggest this, nor does the age profile to be honest:

North Melbourne:
Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 23.2 (18th oldest)
Average games: 48 (18th most experienced)
Most games: Liam Shiels (271)
Players with 100-plus games: 8
Players with less than 50 games: 29
Most finals games: Liam Shiels (20)
Players with finals experience: 7

West Coast:
Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 23.7 (16th oldest)
Average games: 63.9 (14th most experienced)
Most games: Jack Darling (277)
Players with 100-plus games: 11
Players with less than 50 games: 26
Most finals games: Jack Darling (17)
Players with finals experience: 16
Click to expand...
North have been out of finals since 2017 and have found that building solely through the draft, with an inability to attract significant free agents, is a nigh on impossible.

There’s been turnover of both young and senior players in that time. Their current list is more an example of a partially failed rebuild (because they’ve rarely focused on KPP’s in the draft), and their inability to attract quality free agents.


A BIG part of the “North is three years ahead” in their rebuild discussion, is based purely on WHERE abouts in the draft most of their young players were selected.

North have a lot of first round and top 10 draftees.

West Coast not as many.

Of course PP’s, compensation picks and the JHF trade help with this.

Reality is, most of these kids have been picked in the last two drafts, at the same time West Coast have bottomed out and were picking at the same time.

Difference is North have drafted 4 top 5 draftees, and another 3 first round draftees in this period. So 7 players all up.

While WC have drafted 1 top 5 kid, 1 top 10 kid and 1 top 15 kid of the same period. Just 3 players.

North also have a top 5 pick and top 15 pick from the 2020 draft, while WC has a top 15 pick from the 2021 draft.

So we’re talking 4 first round picks, compared 9 first round picks from 4 drafts.
 
WCE_phil said:
Part of an ongoing package to assist with the effects of travel. 5 extra interchanges each quarter for WA teams. +1 for NSW and SA teams, (same for Tas eventually) and +2 for QLD teams. Plus 300k,150,100k into the soft cap for those 3 groups again only to be spent on recovery staff and processes. +3,1,1 rookie spots for those groups.
Click to expand...

That will never happen, we won 4 in the current environment and I expect the AFL will never change this for the benefit of WA teams because of how successful we have been and will be.

WCE_phil said:
However you can't in the case of a couple of years change your entire team list and playstyle due to a combination of rule changes, reduced interchanges and in particular the reduced soft cap which had more of an effect on the WCE than any other club as we had the most bloated / biggest number of support staff and have the largest travel burden.
Click to expand...

Can anyone confirm what the softcap was reduced to? and in particular what roles from WCE we lost?
 
Jumpoff Joey said:
That will never happen, we won 4 in the current environment and I expect the AFL will never change this for the benefit of WA teams because of how successful we have been and will be.



Can anyone confirm what the softcap was reduced to? and in particular what roles from WCE we lost?
Click to expand...

The club hasn't won 4 in the current environment at all. The club has won 1 with an interchange cap of 90. It has since been further reduced to 75.

The eagles had to let go roughly 30% of staff which then greatly increased the workload of remaining staff both inside and outside the football department.
 
flamingEMBERS said:
Let us spend our money and get rid of the soft tax would be a great start
Click to expand...

If they got rid of the soft cap for football department spending the club would focus on absolutely maximising sponsorships and spend an extra 4-5 mill a year on the football department with probably 2-3 million of that invested in sports science, recovery, talent identification and development.

The club aren't in a fair position in relation to the league in any way shape or form, Freo to for that matter although to a lesser extent due to their reasonably good relationship with peel (however even peel has plenty who want to see the club detach themselves from the dockers). This is all outside of draft assistance.

I firmly believe yes the club does need draft assistance as well as off field concessions, even if the draft assistance is in the name of priority picks in a lot of ways it is really just making up for how screwed over we have been since the reduction to soft cap, reduced interchange, covid and how distorted the draft has become. These are not things that the club could have prepared for.
 

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EagleJack42 said:
Another myth is the "North are 3-years ahead" of West Coast in their rebuild.

Results don't suggest this, nor does the age profile to be honest:

North Melbourne:
Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 23.2 (18th oldest)
Average games: 48 (18th most experienced)
Most games: Liam Shiels (271)
Players with 100-plus games: 8
Players with less than 50 games: 29
Most finals games: Liam Shiels (20)
Players with finals experience: 7

West Coast:
Average age at Opening Round, 2024: 23.7 (16th oldest)
Average games: 63.9 (14th most experienced)
Most games: Jack Darling (277)
Players with 100-plus games: 11
Players with less than 50 games: 26
Most finals games: Jack Darling (17)
Players with finals experience: 16
Click to expand...
All of those stats mean next to nothing.

Nth have several talented top 5 picks on there list that are young. They still have gapping holes on there list but have a number of A grade prospects that they can build a list around.

We have Harley Reid.

When people are saying the Nth rebuild is 3 years ahead they are correct. It’s going to take us that long to get that amount of top 10 talent on our list through the draft that we can build a list around. Three years might be generous.

The thing that can fast track a rebuild is getting lucky in the second and third round and finding a Chad Warner or a Lachie Neale or a McGovern in the Rookie draft. Gifted AFL assistance or getting lucky with AFL rules such as Academy selections or Father son selections.

If we don’t get lucky on any of the above then the draft is the only way and read my first three points of the post once again.
 
I had some time today so got onto the https://www.draftguru.com.au/ site and made the following tables.

I was surprised at the number and calibre of picks Carlton got between 2003 - 2007, just a year or so after they got caught cheating the salary cap. Hmmm...

It seems 2009 was the last time a top-of-the-draft pick was used as a priority. Interesting how many Melbourne-based clubs got picks #1, #2, or #3 as priorities during the time between 2000 - 2007 when interstate clubs were dominating the competition - I'm sure it's just a co-incidence. ;)
Screenshot 2024-04-08 at 5.45.36 PM.png
 
Jumpoff Joey said:
Can anyone confirm what the softcap was reduced to? and in particular what roles from WCE we lost?
Click to expand...

In 2019, the cap was ~$9.7m

During 2020, an adjustment was made reducing club spending to $511k per month ($6.132m annualised)

It was then $6.2m in 2021, $6.45m in 2022 and $6.95m in 2023

Currently it stands at $7.275m with some other allowances added in over time. For example, 20% of the senior coaches salary is outside the cap.

There’s other full or partial exclusions for things like female or indigenous staff, spending on mental health staff etc

This article from 2022 gives a pretty good explanation on the cap

AFL 2022: Soft cap on football department spending to rise, some mental health and wellbeing costs will be exempt

amp.theage.com.au amp.theage.com.au

As for the impact on us, it’s hard to know exactly who was lost directly or indirectly due to the soft cap cuts but

• Matt Rosa left as a development coach in 2020
• Chance Bateman lost his role as our indigenous liaison officer but has since returned
• Drew Petrie was working for BHP for a period before returning
• Darren Glass left as list manager for a more lucrative role outside football
• Craig Vozzo initially took over the list manager role as well as his football manager role only to suffer burn out and a change to a non-football department role. He was then poached by Essendon to become their CEO

There would be many lower profile roles in S&C, player development and recruitment that would have been lost

It’s ridiculous that every other facet of AFL spending has returned to the same as or substantially more than precovid levels yet the football department cap is still 20% lower than it was 5 years ago
 
www.afl.com.au

The great debate: Should the Eagles get a priority pick?

Should West Coast be given draft assistance by the AFL? Damian Barrett and Nathan Schmook put forward their cases
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

The great debate: Should the Eagles get a priority pick?​

Should West Coast be given draft assistance by the AFL? Damian Barrett and Nathan Schmook put forward their cases
By Damian Barrett and Nathan Schmook
3 hrs ago

WITH just five victories from its past 53 AFL games and a winless start to a new season, concerns about West Coast's on-field performances are not going away.

The Eagles put in a vastly improved performance against Sydney in Gather Round, but remain rooted to the bottom of the ladder again after finishing last in 2023 and 17th the year before.

After fellow strugglers North Melbourne received a draft assistance package from the AFL at the end of last season and also the year before, and Gold Coast was given some help at the end of 2019, the proposition of the Eagles receiving a priority pick from the AFL has again been raised.

But should the Eagles be given some help, or should they instead fight their way back to the top without assistance?
Damian Barrett, AFL.com.au's chief football correspondent, is firmly of the belief that draft assistance should not be given while Nathan Schmook, AFL.com.au's Perth-based reporter who covers the Eagles weekly, believes the AFL is "duty bound" to help.

The pair put forward their cases on the Tuesday episode of AFL Daily. Listen to the full episode above and read what they had to say below.

DAMIAN BARRETT: "No, no, no, no, no - that's my view every time this topic of a priority pick comes up for any club that is down the bottom of the ladder. I said the same word in the North Melbourne situation, and they managed to get one last year. I said it prior to that when Gold Coast - again, down the bottom for mediocrity reasons and a lot of their own doing ... and they got it too. And obviously (Matt) Rowell and (Noah) Anderson were part of what they were able to do to help potentially set them up.
"I get why people argue for it ... but this club won a Grand Final - won a Grand Final - in 2018. And now we're going to have our cap in hand and ask the AFL for a priority pick?

"There's been finals appearances beyond that 2018 year, there's been the recruitment of a player the club chose to use three first-round draft picks on - I know they got a little bit back - but there were three first-round draft picks attached to the Tim Kelly transaction. And they've also either made or failed to make other decisions that would have improved their list composition.


"So it's a no for me. I'm tired of clubs just getting to this point, giving up and getting a priority pick to get themselves out of it.
"We've got this coming up with the Tasmanian entry into the competition in 2028 ... so you know that the 2026 and 2027 drafts are going to be affected by that in some significant way. And the 2028 draft as well with the entry of that football club. So I don't want another draft impacted with another priority pick changing hands and affecting every other club's standing within a draft."

NATHAN SCHMOOK: "I agree with you that the priority pick system shouldn't exist. But the fact that it does, and the fact that North Melbourne received priority picks when West Coast are at a lower ebb than North Melbourne were in my opinion, I think they have to be given one. I'm not convinced right now that West Coast are going to go cap in hand and ask for a priority pick. But if they do, I think the AFL is duty bound to give it to them.

"Whatever form that takes; whether it's a start of first-round pick, an end of first-round pick or it's a handful of later picks in the second round that they can use in some way similar to the North Melbourne situation when they could trade them away. I think they need it. I think the list is in a position where it does need it.

"I don't think that we can just say because the system shouldn't exist that West Coast shouldn't get one. Because North Melbourne got them and it's just set West Coast further behind a club like North Melbourne, who they should be in a similar position to as far as rebuilding.

"The other side of this (argument) is the fact that West Coast have got a lot of money. (But) they can't buy draft picks with the money they've got in the bank. They can't buy better coaches because of the soft cap. They can't do anything with that money that's going to impact them as a football club on field."


BARRETT: "Well, they can, they just get taxed. There's nothing stopping them spending more money on the soft cap ... and if money is endless, and we've always been led to believe that it is at West Coast, well maybe they just need to hit that mark, get over the threshold and just be taxed at a higher rate. I get that that's dead money, but this club is broken. I know Don Pyke has gone into it to have a look at it, but I'd be staggered if he was fully across how bad it is.

"I know what I'm saying is probably half-justifying your stance on this, that they need a priority pick, but it's very broken. And they've got themselves in this situation through lethargy, I feel, and I think a hubris and an arrogance in that, 'We are West Coast, we will improve'. That's what they were selling and pitching to players to come their way relatively recently; maybe not in the last 24 or 12 months, but maybe three years ago. 'We are West Coast, we will get ourselves right'. And history said they did. They always went down, but they always came up hard very soon.

"This is a different story and I think it's a bit of their own attitude that's got them and kept them down."

SCHMOOK: "You've helped justify my argument, so I'll do the same for you. After the 2018 premiership and that trade to get Tim Kelly in to have that last crack at another flag and the impact that that's had on the list going forward - I don't blame them for that. A lot of people do, but I think if that's my football club and they view themselves in the window, if they can get one more piece, I'd be glad that West Coast did it. They had another crack at a premiership because we've seen with some clubs how hard they can be to come across. The Fremantle Dockers, in their own state, are in their 30th season and don't have a premiership yet. So for West Coast to go after it and to take a risk, I do applaud that.

"But to build on your argument, perhaps that's something that needs to be punished. Because if you take that risk and we're six years down the track from that premiership and it hasn't worked out for you from a rebuilding sense, then you maybe do have to pay the price.

"But it's going to be an interesting argument. I'm sure we'll have the debate a few more times through the season."
 
^^^

Couple of things from that

• Barrett said we used 3x first round draft picks in the Kelly trade which is straight up bullshit. It was 2 (and mid to late first rounders at that, not top 10 picks) and 2 second round picks

• He also declares that we can go over the soft cap and just pay the tax which is a ridiculously simplistic view. Whilst the tax isn’t as punitive now as it was last year it’s still significant. And spending over is not just a one year thing - if you’re going spend extra on staff to help it’s not a one year timeframe. It’s a longer term than one year and out if there’s going to be my long term benefit and the tax increases each year you go over

• His argument that we won a premiership recently is a valid one and if we do ask for assistance that is going to be our biggest obstacle
 
Keys said:
• He also declares that we can go over the soft cap and just pay the tax which is a ridiculously simplistic view. Whilst the tax isn’t as punitive now as it was last year it’s still significant. And spending over is not just a one year thing - if you’re going spend extra on staff to help it’s not a one year timeframe. It’s a longer term than one year and out if there’s going to be my long term benefit and the tax increases each year you go over
Click to expand...

Given the nature of the tax suggests it cannot be sustained long term, I can absolutely see the rhetoric being spewed if we legitimately went that route and saw an uptick then pulled the pin on the overspend and came back to the pack again.

West Coast arrogance to think they can buy their way out of a rebuild etc etc

It would be the same if we hadn't have taken Harley and then he turns in that game on the weekend wearing another guernsey. We would be getting smashed.
 
Keys said:
• His argument that we won a premiership recently is a valid one and if we do ask for assistance that is going to be our biggest obstacle
Click to expand...
The biggest argument against this though is that North last played finals in 2014, 2015, 2016. Then decided to gut their list in 2016.

The argument that it's self inflicted since 2018 for us isn't wrong it's just not a winning point.
Norths woes were self inflicted as well.

They got rid of pretty much all their experienced talent over 2-3 years. Between 2016 to 2018.
Went through 4 coaches since 2016. Scott, Shaw, Noble, Clarkson. (not including the fill ins).
 
Keys said:
^^^

Couple of things from that

• Barrett said we used 3x first round draft picks in the Kelly trade which is straight up bullshit. It was 2 (and mid to late first rounders at that, not top 10 picks) and 2 second round picks

• He also declares that we can go over the soft cap and just pay the tax which is a ridiculously simplistic view. Whilst the tax isn’t as punitive now as it was last year it’s still significant. And spending over is not just a one year thing - if you’re going spend extra on staff to help it’s not a one year timeframe. It’s a longer term than one year and out if there’s going to be my long term benefit and the tax increases each year you go over

• His argument that we won a premiership recently is a valid one and if we do ask for assistance that is going to be our biggest obstacle
Click to expand...
Not valid at all, priority picks are meant to help a team become competitive, not to win flags. If we lost 2018 by 5 points instead of winning by 5 would that change things? It's a stupid argument and 6 years is an eternity in football. North will have received 5 priority picks in the last 3 years after this season concludes, and it we finish last again that'll be 2 out of those 3 years we were worse than a priority pick calibre side without receiving a single one. We also lost 2 first round picks to concussion, and despite being historically poor we've had our 2nd and 3rd round picks pushed back further than any other wooden spoon side ever.

Theres absolutely no argument to be made against us receiving assistance if we have another poor year.
 
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