VFL Saints vs Sandringham 11am today Sat. 10th

[plugger66]

Indeed taking 'best available' is what you do if you're picking at say #7 and you have a lot of gaps in the list so any of the projected players in the 7-12 range are probably fair choices.
But unless you're right at the start of a rebuild, you use mid to late picks for either guys you're willing to take a risk on (e.g. would have been taken higher if not for injury/character concerns) and hope for a bargain, but largely drafting for need. It's often why you see plenty of players like Clavarino taken in that area - teams need a player of that sort on the list to tuck away and develop. But we don't really have that.

The above all said, I still remember the day poor Jackson Ferguson was forced into making his debut and he made Aaron Black look like Plugger. I remember Roberton's first year as a starter and how he was having to play 3rd tall and people wanted him delisted as a Freo scrub. We need talls, we have been caught out too many times in the past, not least last year when Dempster retired and Goddard went down hurt - we are super lucky Carlisle or Brown didn't twist a knee and miss a month as I would think our only option then would have been Bruce to play at the back, and with McCartin on concussion sit-out presumably Marshall or Battle would have played more. Not that I personally see a lot wrong with the young lads getting games, but they need to be ready for it. Ferguson who I mentioned above was thrown to the lions as there was nobody else - I think Tom Lee and Beau Wilkes were already playing in that side!

So considering Joyce isn't close to earning an AFL start and Goddard's health can't be trusted, realistically we've got Brown and Carlisle with Austin and Goddard as the backups and Clavarino as the developing KPD who may get a game. If everyone's fit, we have too many. Hell one of them's gonna have to play forward for Sandy if they're all fit, and that is also not helping our player development.
But if we didn't have Austin, and Brown and Goddard were out hurt, we'd be starting Clavarino and Carlisle and I don't feel that secure about that setup.

What I have greater concern about is that every year our draft picks seem to leapfrog the previous year's. The Billings-Dunstan-Acres year was always expected to be good as Billings was obviously going to be an AFL 10-year player (arguably though we drafted him at 3 to be a midfield game-changer, and he's not he's a very good half-forward whose coach doesn't feel he can play mid), Dunstan was ready to play immediately yet has a hard ceiling, and Acres was big-bodied enough to also get games and give it a crack. Beyond that we've got players not contributing. And before that we've just got lots of misses. If Jimmy Webster and Nathan Wright are our success stories from drafts then that's a real worry, that's why we're heavily reliant on players coming from other clubs.

Pretty much agree with that except the game is changing and the need for 3 talls in a side is basically none because of team defence and so little room for big guys to make space. I think the Ferguson thing wouldn't be an issue now as we probably wouldn't need to play him in the defence is organised well enough.

 

[gringo2011]

In fairness to the list I dont think any are continually encouraged or trained to take the game on and break it open with run. Plenty are capable of it, but its obvious they are trained which becomes instinct is to give it off by hands. Generally in close when their team mate is also under the pump.

You see the best midfielders their initial thought/movement is to break out into the clear regardless of traffic. That brings 2 or 3 opponents to them and makes space for team mates

Again the better coached teams and/or midfielders use handball but generally it is to a player outside the contest who can then run and deliver without pressure.

The way WE play the opposition knows to just sit off, because we are predicable and will hand ball regardless of positioning. Hence our movement is often under pressure resulting in a turnover.

Our coaches have stifled any natural run and carry which needs to come from all the midfielders not just Stuv. Often when we do run clear rather than kicking it forward they will again look for a handball - even handballing backwards. That is the time when they should be kicking long to the forwards in a one on one because the opposition hasnt had time to flood back. Key forwards need to do there job and separate.

I think it's the Grant Thmas versus Ross Lyon scenario. Richo has by necessity been forced to play a team defence with a full field defensive effort and running in numbers. It's a disciplined game style that doesn't lend it's self to natural flair. It might be hard to transition into trusting our kids to win on the front foot after playing a shackled style for so long. I actually reckon when we played Richmond last year we really let loose and when we tried locking down the game in the second half they got a run on. It might be that we need to start front running and piling on score for the coaches to trust that offence can be the best defence.

 

[plugger66]

I think it's the Grant Thmas versus Ross Lyon scenario. Richo has by necessity been forced to play a team defence with a full field defensive effort and running in numbers. It's a disciplined game style that doesn't lend it's self to natural flair. It might be hard to transition into trusting our kids to win on the front foot after playing a shackled style for so long. I actually reckon when we played Richmond last year we really let loose and when we tried locking down the game in the second half they got a run on. It might be that we need to start front running and piling on score for the coaches to trust that offence can be the best defence.

I think you might be more upset this year then because they other day he talked about the defence having more work on it to be even more team defensive. To be honest every single club plays team defence and that why tall forwards are struggling. I think we play without flair because we honestly don't have enough skilled players except in the forward line.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you might be more upset this year then because they other day he talked about the defence having more work on it to be even more team defensive. To be honest every single club plays team defence and that why tall forwards are struggling. I think we play without flair because we honestly don't have enough skilled players except in the forward line.

Hard to know, I thought Dunstan was pretty eye opening when he said going back to Sandy allowed him to reassess what he loved about footy. He rediscovered the fun that playing on instinct brings him and he improved dramatically when he returned. He looked like young Luke Ball towards the end of last season. I think that drumming the discipline into them make them risk averse and if you are always chasing and tackling as your first instinct when it come to going the other way you are trying not to make a mistake more than take big risks. Players like Danger, Buddy, ,Fyfe and Dusty seem to have a rebellious spirit where they will do some of the team stuff but they will also do the opposite and run off into space and risk leaving their man exposing their team mates.

Anyway I think that's similar to what the Dogs went through with bringing in Beverage, he encouraged them to back themselves after their previous coach instilled maximum discipline. The new coach get the reward of the hard drilling but it's like some one ran the Ferrari in, the new owner comes in a guns it to heck and gets the performance.

Interestingly the Tigers actually asked players how to improve and they said they wanted footy to be fun again so they tried to make every drill and coaching exercise fun and competitive. It kind of makes sense.

 

[majortinkle]

Hard to know, I thought Dunstan was pretty eye opening when he said going back to Sandy allowed him to reassess what he loved about footy. He rediscovered the fun that playing on instinct brings him and he improved dramatically when he returned. He looked like young Luke Ball towards the end of last season. I think that drumming the discipline into them make them risk averse and if you are always chasing and tackling as your first instinct when it come to going the other way you are trying not to make a mistake more than take big risks. Players like Danger, Buddy, ,Fyfe and Dusty seem to have a rebellious spirit where they will do some of the team stuff but they will also do the opposite and run off into space and risk leaving their man exposing their team mates.

Anyway I think that's similar to what the Dogs went through with bringing in Beverage, he encouraged them to back themselves after their previous coach instilled maximum discipline. The new coach get the reward of the hard drilling but it's like some one ran the Ferrari in, the new owner comes in a guns it to **** and gets the performance.

Interestingly the Tigers actually asked players how to improve and they said they wanted footy to be fun again so they tried to make every drill and coaching exercise fun and competitive. It kind of makes sense.

Didn’t we say we’d tried to do similar this preseason - we looked like it was just a bit fun during jlt first quarters this year so maybe it’s backfiring

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I think you might be more upset this year then because they other day he talked about the defence having more work on it to be even more team defensive. To be honest every single club plays team defence and that why tall forwards are struggling. I think we play without flair because we honestly don't have enough skilled players except in the forward line.

The midfield transition defence is the issue, just as it was last season.

It’s where our lack of pace is shown up & what hurts us more than anything (well goal kicking is right up there).

It’s also where a lack of tactical nous is evident. There never seems to be an answer when a team explodes off half back... it’s in their F50 before you can blink.


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[Marlo]

The midfield transition defence is the issue, just as it was last season.

It’s where our lack of pace is shown up & what hurts us more than anything (well goal kicking is right up there).

It’s also where a lack of tactical nous is evident. There never seems to be an answer when a team explodes off half back... it’s in their F50 before you can blink.


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I pretend I'm watching basketball, to keep my sanity.

As soon as our forward drops an easy mark or receives a shocking inside 50, you know the opposition are around 6 seconds away from having a ping on goal.

 

[gringo2011]

Didn’t we say we’d tried to do similar this preseason - we looked like it was just a bit fun during jlt first quarters this year so maybe it’s backfiring

I think we must have had the wrong kind of fun.

 

[Palantine]

I was gutted we didn't take Constable at pick 35. Not that I have anything against Clavarino. But I reckon Constable is a genuine big game player, with an elite footy IQ. Maybe a little slow and his tank might need work, but I reckon he would have complemented Coffield & Clark beautifully this year. 191cm inside mid. Elite hands. Watching him accumulate 18 possesions and 8 marks today for Geelong against Essendon makes me desperately want to see Clavarino do well.

I was a bit the same way about Constable but cooled on him a bit when I noticed there was no real run and carry in his highlights. He would either handball it off quickly, or receive the ball in space and use his good right leg. Can't remember seeing him ever take the ball in a pack and charge out/through. That's when I really started liking Hunter.

 

[VDS66]

Not sure what tactical nouse can fix the rebound.

The reason it rebounds is because we don't apply forward pressure.

The midfield transition defence is the issue, just as it was last season.

It’s where our lack of pace is shown up & what hurts us more than anything (well goal kicking is right up there).

It’s also where a lack of tactical nous is evident. There never seems to be an answer when a team explodes off half back... it’s in their F50 before you can blink.


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