Opinion Our Current Rebuild Will Ultimately Fail - Prove Me Wrong

[rabidcrow]

Once again we see that Roo is a BIG part of the problem. The sooner he is gone the better.

Say what you like about Roo but your quote makes no sense. No one at a football club is going to come out and trash their own team/strategy or rebuild. His job is to pump up the club and direction publicly.

And there is no doubt that behind the scenes they all continue to work hard to make us better. Capability to do that you can certainly critique


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Crow till I die]

No. But apparently we hit every target though.

yep, some lofty targets met and bars jumped

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Has Fages released our 5 year plan yet?

Lol, he was all talk no action.

I bet you he never had any intention or any idea about developing a plan... as that would mean something to hold him to account.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Has Fages released our 5 year plan yet?

Shuttleworth: Are we going to publish the new one?

Chapman: Why do the public need to see the document? Do they honestly think that everyone down at the club isn't working as hard as they can? That we don’t all want the club to succeed?

Shuttleworth: It's more a question of accountability.

Chapman: The staff are accountable to management. Management is accountable to the board. The board is accountable to the AFL. The end. The fans aren't in it. That's what they don't understand. There's no reason for them to be involved at this level or to be going over our planning documents with a fine tooth comb, searching for things to complain about.

Ricciuto: It’s none of their business.

Chapman: This is the same group who drove out Neil Craig.

Ricciuto: And Triggy.

Chapman: Troublemakers. Who loves the club more than us?

Strategic planning meeting TRANSCRIPT

Present: Rob Chapman, Andrew Fagan, Mark Ricciuto and Ian Shuttleworth Fagan: Gentlemen… I want to talk strategic planning. Going through this on-field rebuild at the moment it feels like we’re on the ground floor. The start of something… it might be a good time to release a new strategic plan...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[George Kramer]

Strategic planning meeting TRANSCRIPT

Present: Rob Chapman, Andrew Fagan, Mark Ricciuto and Ian Shuttleworth Fagan: Gentlemen… I want to talk strategic planning. Going through this on-field rebuild at the moment it feels like we’re on the ground floor. The start of something… it might be a good time to release a new strategic plan...

www.bigfooty.com

How did you get a copy?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How did you get a copy?

I'm pals with Josh Jenkins

He had the place bugged

 

[mick500]

I don't think we are going too badly. We can play some good footy for periods but are let down by not being able to play 4 quarters of footy. A very common thing with young developing teams. As time goes on and the team plays together longer obviously they need to start building 4 quarter performances. But I don't think we are able to be expecting that yet. All we can ask is that they try atm and I think they are doing that.

 

[GreyCrow]

I don't think we are going too badly. We can play some good footy for periods but are let down by not being able to play 4 quarters of footy. A very common thing with young developing teams. As time goes on and the team plays together longer obviously they need to start building 4 quarter performances. But I don't think we are able to be expecting that yet. All we can ask is that they try atm and I think they are doing that.

Good to see the Faith in this poster

 

[Sanders]

Strategic planning meeting TRANSCRIPT

Present: Rob Chapman, Andrew Fagan, Mark Ricciuto and Ian Shuttleworth Fagan: Gentlemen… I want to talk strategic planning. Going through this on-field rebuild at the moment it feels like we’re on the ground floor. The start of something… it might be a good time to release a new strategic plan...

www.bigfooty.com

Funny because true

 

[Sanders]

Good to see the Faith in this poster

Lots of basic football knowledge too

 

[1970crow]

I don't think we are going too badly. We can play some good footy for periods but are let down by not being able to play 4 quarters of footy. A very common thing with young developing teams. As time goes on and the team plays together longer obviously they need to start building 4 quarter performances. But I don't think we are able to be expecting that yet. All we can ask is that they try atm and I think they are doing that.

the issue is our ceiling. There's zero appetite to improve or deepen our midfield, so no matter what we have in terms of front and back halves, we'll never make it to a genuine recurring top 4 competitor. That's why the rebuild fails and we're going nowhere with the current coaching group.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Bump. Not much happened today to prove the thread title is off the mark!

 

[Dangerousfield]

Bump again after yesterday.

To move up the ladder you actually need to makes more progress than the teams around and immediately ahead of you, teams like Hawthorn, Essendon, GWS. We're on the road to irrelevance.

Bet Andrew Capel wishes he hadn't written this article for The Advertiser in late April this year.

How the Crows rebuilt to become relevant again​

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

There is nothing in our whole club which has premiership pedigree. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

 

[Bob Neil]

What do you need to win a flag - you need the right:

• list
• coach
• football dept staff (inc. fitness) and strategies (i.e. list build)
• on-field game plan
• club/admin support
• luck

I simply can't see any of these key planks coming together in a meaningful way to suggest that this cycle of rebuild will be successful and lead to a premiership. I think most likely we will need to have a reset in the next 24 months which will involve:

• change of coach
• final clean out of older players
• renewal of the coaching and support staff (with new coach bringing in 'their crew')
• meaningful change at / near the top of our football governance structure with either/both Ricciuto and Kelly being replaced

 

[Mr_Moogle]

• meaningful change at / near the top of our football governance structure with either/both Ricciuto and Kelly being replaced

You can add Olsen and Silvers to that. They gave Nicks an extension. Unless he's promptly removed, they've done their dash afaic.

 

[GROTTO]

What do you need to win a flag - you need the right:

• list
• coach
• football dept staff (inc. fitness) and strategies (i.e. list build)
• on-field game plan
• club/admin support
• luck

I simply can't see any of these key planks coming together in a meaningful way to suggest that this cycle of rebuild will be successful and lead to a premiership. I think most likely we will need to have a reset in the next 24 months which will involve:

• change of coach
• final clean out of older players
• renewal of the coaching and support staff (with new coach bringing in 'their crew')
• meaningful change at / near the top of our football governance structure with either/both Ricciuto and Kelly being replaced

When a Club bottoms out, you really need to hit the draft in multiple consecutive years with your early picks correctly.

We IMO have done that since 2020. However we have made mistakes previous to this which has set us back.

Using Melbourne as an example, they recruited Petracca, Brayshaw (and Lever from us) in 2014, Oliver in 2015, Fritsch in 2016.

It took Melbourne about 6+ years from the time they recruited this core of players to win a flag. From memory, similar with the Hawks with Buddy, Hodge etc, Tigers the same as well. In fairness we got to a GF in 2017 by nailing the draft and trades to reach there.

I dont see us making finals, let alone winning a flag, till at least 2026. Realistically our next flag chance wont be till the end of this decade or the 2030s. Thats assuming also we nail our recruiting/trading over the next 2-4 years.

Compare this approach to Geelong, which never really went through a rebuild phase. Won flags in 07,09 and 11 and reached the GF in 2020 and again look likely to do so in 2022. Between 2012 and 2019 played in multiple Finals series and I would even argue if they got to play a home final in 2017 in week 1 of that series, would have played off in a GF.

To be honest, I would rather be in their situation. Team has won flags and been competitive and played in multiple finals series and have enjoyable H&A seasons.

We will have to endure multiple years of pain, before we play even finals.

 

[Cap]

Did anyone define current?

 

[FR0GGY]

Did anyone define current?

Replace with half hearted attempt.

 

[Big Crow]

We must be close to calling this rebuild a fail. The criteria has to be a premiership capable list, for which far too many of our current crop simply do not possess the necessary quality.

On this basis the rebuild has failed. Now the criteria defined by the club may be to be competitive or simply finish in the bottom half of the top 8. If this is the case then we’d have even bigger problems, but you might be able to call it a success if a few things go right down the track.

 

[Soggy2112]

We must be close to calling this rebuild a fail. The criteria has to be a premiership capable list, for which far too many of our current crop simply do not possess the necessary quality.

On this basis the rebuild has failed. Now the criteria defined by the club may be to be competitive or simply finish in the bottom half of the top 8. If this is the case then we’d have even bigger problems, but you might be able to call it a success if a few things go right down the track.

I’m not sure that’s fair in terms of the quality of the list. As we’ve seen with other teams, the bulk of the quality needs to be brought in from the draft, if we consider the end of 2019 the start of our rebuild and go from there that’s how we should judge it.

2019:

McAsey, Schoenberg, Worrell, O’Connor, Gollant

2020:

Thilthorpe, Pedlar, Cook, Berry, Rowe

2021:

Rachele, Soligo, Taylor

From those players I think Thilthorpe and Rachele are our genuine A graders. Berry will be a quality player for a long time. Schoenberg and Soligo have shown potential and I’m fairly positive develop into consistent performers. McAsey, Gollant, Pedlar and Cook are all maybes for various reasons. Worrell and Taylor w haven’t seen enough of to make any sort of judgement. O’Connor is gone and I suspect Rowe will probably follow at some point.

Compare that to the most recent successful rebuild in Melbourne, which started when Roos took over at the end of 2013. If you look at their first three drafts these are the players left:

2013:

Salem, Hunt

2014:

Petracca, Brayshaw, Neal-Bullen

2015:

Oliver, Weideman

If we compare, I would argue that there is a similar level of talent between those two groups. You can split hairs either way but we’re by no means drastically short of what Melbourne brought in through the draft.

Whether we have the coaching and the development to nurture the talent is a whole different question, but I think a lot of us are allowing the frustration of some failed drafts leading up to our rebuild cloud our judgement.

 

[Dangerousfield]

So today on our home deck the 17th side of 2021 beat the 15th side of 2021. Who's rebuild is going better?

 

[jackster83]

So today on our home deck the 17th side of 2021 beat the 15th side of 2021. Who's rebuild is going better?

Well we've flown past West Adelaide in our rebuild, so things could be worse.

 

[Sanders]

When you get gifted players like Daicos it certainly helps

 

[Jcpdragonx]

We are bottom 4, maybe bottom 6, thats where we belong for this, next and probably the year after. The 2020-2023 crops going forward our best shot at developing a list to win a premiership. 2010s top picks are dead except for Fog and Doedee. We don't even have any small forwards we're confident will be best 22 players. Our KPDs played 40 games combined. We play the youngest most inexperienced 22 in the comp.

These completely bottom out rebuilds can take 5-7 years. Look at Carlton, Saints, Melbourne, Freo, Brisbane, all s**t for 5+ years. Hawks/WC didnt get elite talent in the draft and now they're going to take ages to compete again.