Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

[mickelboy182]

So to sum up, I feel cheated that I was told i must get vaccinated to continue work as if I was not vaccinated, I would be a risk to others in the public. This is why I comment on forums like this one. But why are people who have already been jabbed want people like me to be jabbed??? Surely its not just cos of the "stress on the health system" line? Because going back to 2021, the argument on forums such as this was "get vaccinated you selfish bastard, do you want your nanna to die?".

I don't particularly care if you're vaccinated or not, I just think you're pretty stupid not to be.

Despite all that, vaccination actually does reduce the likelihood of transmission even if it isn't a guarantee. That's more than enough to make it a worthwhile sacrifice of a sore arm for a day for the overwhelming majority of people.

 

[Trouto]

I don't particularly care if you're vaccinated or not, I just think you're pretty stupid not to be.

Despite all that, vaccination actually does reduce the likelihood of transmission even if it isn't a guarantee. That's more than enough to make it a worthwhile sacrifice of a sore arm for a day for the overwhelming majority of people.

Ok, so you want me to be vaxxed to lower the chance of infecting you and the people you love?

 

[faible]

i deemed it not worth it as the virus mutates too quickly for the jab to be effective.

This isn’t aligned with the expert advice. It diminishes the effectiveness, but still significantly reduces the chances of serious illness or death.

What makes you believe you’re suitably qualified to make the assessment? Do you have the same opinions regarding a plane you fly on, a car that’s getting serviced, heart surgery, or anything else we trust someone else to do daily?

For some reason there seems to be a lot of people that believe they’re qualified to assess covid vaccinations that have never had any inclination to argue they’re vaccine experts previously.

 

[mickelboy182]

Ok, so you want me to be vaxxed to lower the chance of infecting you and the people you love?

No, the post you're replying to literally says I don't care what you do, I just think you're foolish not to. It is the easiest thing you could do with extremely minimal risk.

 

[Trouto]

No, the post you're replying to literally says I don't care what you do, I just think you're foolish not to. It is the easiest thing you could do with extremely minimal risk.

So then why do you feel the need to comment? Is it just to banter with someone who is wrong? Not you in particular, more the guys who fill their replies with facts, debunking other comments etc.

Seems like a bit of waste of time unless you just like arguing?

 

[mickelboy182]

So then why do you feel the need to comment? Is it just to banter with someone who is wrong? Not you in particular, more the guys who fill their replies with facts, debunking other comments etc.

Seems like a bit of waste of time unless you just like arguing?

Because this is a discussion forum and giving one's 2 cents is kind of the whole point?

 

[Trouto]

Because this is a discussion forum and giving one's 2 cents is kind of the whole point?

yeah true

 

[Crankyhawk]

As someone who is against mandatory vaccinations (not vaccines themselves, i just want to make the choice), we obviously have something to say about being forced to take something we dont want.

The people who are for the mandatory vaccinations, what do you guys want to get out of trying to prove us wrong? I mean, I am upset that i am being made to do something i dont want to do. I dont see it as anyone else's business if i get the shot or not. I wont be infecting others more, so is it just the statement "you will overload the health system"?

when the mandates were rolled out, we (my job i mean) were specifically told in 2021 that we have to get vaccinated as we were going into areas with the public and needed to protect others. This was later found out to be a lie. There was absolutely no reason given that we had to get vaxxed to "not clog up the health system". This was bought in gradually in 2022 by the media as the transmission argument was found to be BS.

So to sum up, I feel cheated that I was told i must get vaccinated to continue work as if I was not vaccinated, I would be a risk to others in the public. This is why I comment on forums like this one. But why are people who have already been jabbed want people like me to be jabbed??? Surely its not just cos of the "stress on the health system" line? Because going back to 2021, the argument on forums such as this was "get vaccinated you selfish bastard, do you want your nanna to die?".

Because I get told I must have vaccinations (even pre covid) Therefore I have zero patience for others complaining about it. That is my reason for supporting mandatory vaccination.

 

[Trouto]

Because I get told I must have vaccinations (even pre covid) Therefore I have zero patience for others complaining about it. That is my reason for supporting mandatory vaccination.

Hmm, must be a personality thing. I get told to do something by the Government and i am instantly suspicious and dont want to do it

 

[sr36]

As someone who is against mandatory vaccinations (not vaccines themselves, i just want to make the choice), we obviously have something to say about being forced to take something we dont want.

The people who are for the mandatory vaccinations, what do you guys want to get out of trying to prove us wrong? I mean, I am upset that i am being made to do something i dont want to do. I dont see it as anyone else's business if i get the shot or not. I wont be infecting others more, so is it just the statement "you will overload the health system"?

when the mandates were rolled out, we (my job i mean) were specifically told in 2021 that we have to get vaccinated as we were going into areas with the public and needed to protect others. This was later found out to be a lie. There was absolutely no reason given that we had to get vaxxed to "not clog up the health system". This was bought in gradually in 2022 by the media as the transmission argument was found to be BS.

So to sum up, I feel cheated that I was told i must get vaccinated to continue work as if I was not vaccinated, I would be a risk to others in the public. This is why I comment on forums like this one. But why are people who have already been jabbed want people like me to be jabbed??? Surely its not just cos of the "stress on the health system" line? Because going back to 2021, the argument on forums such as this was "get vaccinated you selfish bastard, do you want your nanna to die?".

At the moment, I don't think there should be mandatory covid vaccines.

At the time though, I think it was the right decision. Basically, why I supported it and still support that decision was that I don't think other restrictions were sustainable and mandatory vax enabled the country to open up much quicker, with a lot less excessive death. The situation was a population with very little immunity and the more dangerous Delta strain. Opening up in that scenario would have decimated the hospital system and resulted in a heap of death - not just covid related, but also from other conditions that would have gone untreated due to the overload on hospitals.

 

[Trouto]

At the moment, I don't think there should be mandatory covid vaccines.

At the time though, I think it was the right decision. Basically, why I supported it and still support that decision was that I don't think other restrictions were sustainable and mandatory vax enabled the country to open up much quicker, with a lot less excessive death. The situation was a population with very little immunity and the more dangerous Delta strain. Opening up in that scenario would have decimated the hospital system and resulted in a heap of death - not just covid related, but also from other conditions that would have gone untreated due to the overload on hospitals.

Yeah i think in WA we dodged the bullet not by the amount of jabs, rather being locked down pretty much until Omricon came. we were super jabbed up when we opened and our number of infections took off, but as it was Omricon, not many died.

 

[mickelboy182]

Yeah i think in WA we dodged the bullet not by the amount of jabs, rather being locked down pretty much until Omricon came. we were super jabbed up when we opened and our number of infections took off, but as it was Omricon, not many died.

....and as there was a strongly vaccinated populace.

 

[Trouto]

....and as there was a strongly vaccinated populace.

i put it down to the lockdowns meaning WA skipped all the early variants including delta

 

[sr36]

Yeah i think in WA we dodged the bullet not by the amount of jabs, rather being locked down pretty much until Omricon came. we were super jabbed up when we opened and our number of infections took off, but as it was Omricon, not many died.

The data on it is pretty clear - vaccine played a big role. And if you want a case study - check out Hong Kong - like Wa * all covid until Omicron hit and they got hit pretty hard by Omicron - much harder than Wa - Honkers had less vax, less recent vax and lower quality vax than WA - much higher death and hospitalisation rate. You could probably look at China too - but who trusts Chinese data.

 

[Malifice]

Ok, so you want me to be vaxxed to lower the chance of infecting you and the people you love?

That and to help out our Health care system.

If everyone did as you did, our hospitals would have been overwhelmed and a lot more people would have died that need not have.

You do understand that right? Your choice was selfish and undermines the whole reason for vaccination in the first place.

 

[Malifice]

i put it down to the lockdowns meaning WA skipped all the early variants including delta

How on earth can you put it down to that?

There are hundreds of studies (peer reviewed) from literally thousands of different jurisdictions (national and sub national) comparing death rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated people in those jurisdictions.

We're talking data involving hundreds of millions of people, in studies conducted objectively and independently of each other. Literally hundreds of them.

Overwhelmingly - as in in every single jurisdiction and noted in every single study - unvaccinated people are hospitalized and die at far higher rates (5-15 times higher) than the vaccinated.

The reason for our relatively low death toll is not just down to 'locking down and waiting for Omicron'. Overwhelming scientific consensus clearly shows that our extremely high vaccination rates played a massive part in keeping our death toll as low as it is.

 

[PurpleEyes]

For a while, the NSW Health department reported for 26 weeks (period 28/5/22 to 19/11/22) the numbers of Covid-19 hospital patients by vaccination status. The combined totals of those reports showed out of 7,438 Hospitalised Covid-19 patients, 9 patients had "no dose" (2,374 had 4+ doses).

 

[PurpleEyes]

This is about the time I usually get banned from a thread ... ie. when I start producing numbers that do not fit the desired narrative.

 

[morningbrown]

For a while, the NSW Health department reported for 26 weeks (period 28/5/22 to 19/11/22) the numbers of Covid-19 hospital patients by vaccination status. The combined totals of those reports showed out of 7,438 Hospitalised Covid-19 patients, 9 patients had "no dose" (2,374 had 4+ doses).

2.7% of the state has no dose, so it makes sense that the vast vast majority of covid cases are from vaxxed people! We've had this point made ad nauseum for 3 years now.

 

[sr36]

This is about the time I usually get banned from a thread ... ie. when I start producing numbers that do not fit the desired narrative.

It's more the time when you carefully select numbers to fit your desired narrative. Numbers cherry picked from a restricted date range after naturally acquired immunity levels were high in the community. The early days of vax, when most immunity was vax immunity is where you get the clean data of results for vaxed versus unvaxed. And it was very clear that the vaccine was very effective at reducing serious illness..

 

[PurpleEyes]

2.7% of the state has no dose, so it makes sense that the vast vast majority of covid cases are from vaxxed people! We've had this point made ad nauseum for 3 years now.

Current vaccination rates for each states populations are (NB: NSW currently 85.3% any dose, so where did you get that 2.7% bad data from?);

 

[morningbrown]

Current vaccination rates for each states populations are (NB: NSW currently 85.3% any dose, so where did you get that 2.7% bad data from?);
View attachment 1629715

I'm using 16+ which has actually had access for an extended period of time, child vaccines have only been available for a year. The point still stands that at 86.5% of the entire country being jabbed at least once means they will make up the vast majority of cases, basic maths mate.

 

[PurpleEyes]

I'm using 16+ which has actually had access for an extended period of time, child vaccines have only been available for a year. The point still stands that at 86.5% of the entire country being jabbed at least once means they will make up the vast majority of cases, basic maths mate.

The NSW data was for 0+, so you assumed and applied the wrong data in your response.
And you now appear to be trying to make a case that somehow an estimated 14% or more of unvaccinated population can explain just 0.12% of hospital cases (having "no dose") ... how is that basic maths?

 

[Chief]

For a while, the NSW Health department reported for 26 weeks (period 28/5/22 to 19/11/22) the numbers of Covid-19 hospital patients by vaccination status. The combined totals of those reports showed out of 7,438 Hospitalised Covid-19 patients, 9 patients had "no dose" (2,374 had 4+ doses).

This sounds like a lie.

 

[Malifice]

The NSW data was for 0+, so you assumed and applied the wrong data in your response.

Firstly here is the NSW data you're referring to:

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/weekly-covid-overview-20221231.pdf

If you look closely, all barring 1 of the deaths in NSW in the period you're referring to (a person in their 20's) were from people aged 50+

Vaccination in that cohort (adults over 16, especially 50+) was well over 95 percent in March that same year (with 50+ percent of adults triple vaxxed), and likely somewhere in the vicinity of 99 percent come 31 December 2022.

So of the 95 deaths (all of whom were at least 20 years old), 7 were from unvaccinated adults and the other 83 from vaccinated adults among a cohort who had a vaccination rate of over 95 percent.

Or in other words, those numbers (your numbers) still show a 5-7 fold increase in your odds of dying if you're unvaccinated vs being vaccinated.

Your own cherry picked data shows you're ******* wrong.

As does all of the following peer reviewed (by literal PHD's and people with Doctorates) journal articles:

Findings In this cross-sectional study of US adults hospitalized with COVID-19 during January 2022 to April 2022 (during Omicron variant predominance), COVID-19-associated hospitalization rates were 10.5 times higher in unvaccinated persons and 2.5 times higher in vaccinated persons with no booster dose, respectively, compared with those who had received a booster dose.

COVID-19-Associated Hospitalizations Among Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Adults 18 Years or Older in 13 US States

Conclusions: Among the patients hospitalised because of COVID-19, complete vaccination was associated with less severe forms of COVID-19, with an earlier discharge date.

Comparative Study of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Hospitalised Patients: A Retrospective Population Study of 500 Hospitalised Patients with SARS-CoV-2 Infection in a Spanish Population of 220,000 Inhabitants

Summary From January 05 to February 01, 2023, unvaccinated individuals were between 2.6 and 5.5 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared to those who received at least one booster dose.

https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

Bivalent booster recipients in 24 U.S. jurisdictions had slightly higher protection against infection and significantly higher protection against death than was observed for monovalent booster recipients or unvaccinated persons, especially among older adults.

COVID-19 Incidence and Death Rates Among Unvaccinated ...

Results In total, 30 643 878 cases of covid-19 and 439 682 deaths associated with covid-19 occurred over 132 791 county weeks. A 10% improvement in vaccination coverage was associated with an 8% (95% confidence interval 8% to 9%) reduction in mortality rates and a 7% (6% to 8%) reduction in incidence. Higher vaccination coverage levels were associated with reduced mortality and incidence rates during the eras of alpha and delta variant predominance.
Conclusions Higher vaccination coverage was associated with lower rates of population level covid-19 mortality and incidence in the US.

Public health impact of covid-19 vaccines in the US: observational study

There are 5 peer reviewed studies, that confirm the results of your own cherry-picked data.

That unvaccinated people are far more likely to die or wind up in ICU than are vaccinated people.