Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 shot down 295 dead.

[Zidane98]

Russian airlines do have a higher rate of accidents than Western airlines due to poor maintenance / pilot error. There's no reason to suggest any other reason for the crash until additional evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[blackcat]

Russian airlines do have a higher rate of accidents than Western airlines due to poor maintenance / pilot error. There's no reason to suggest any other reason for the crash until additional evidence suggests otherwise.

actually, that is just silly.

I know Aeroflot dont have the best record.

But it is still one in what, 20 thousand flights.

now this flight, just happens to be crossing and taking off from a hot conflict zone or West v Russo proxies. So this changes the context immediately.

If you see my post, I said, basically neutral, but the chances are material this was dirty tricks.

 

[Zidane98]

There are no western or russian proxies on the sinai peninsula. Just a small ISIS backed rebel group.

Once again Russia's defence minister & Egypt's air crash investigation bureau have dismissed a missile being used. Shooting down an aircraft from 30,000 feet requires large SAM systems that cannot be hidden easily. Furthermore ISIS have nobody backing them capable of supplying them with SAM systems.

This is a typical plane crash until evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[blackcat]

There are no western or russian proxies on the sinai peninsula. Just a small ISIS backed rebel group.

Once again Russia's defence minister & Egypt's air crash investigation bureau have dismissed a missile being used. Shooting down an aircraft from 30,000 feet requires large SAM systems that cannot be hidden easily. Furthermore ISIS have nobody backing them capable of supplying them with SAM systems.

This is a typical plane crash until evidence suggests otherwise.

I think I already insinuated my intuition, a dirty tricks from America, that has plausible deniability. It would be an anti air missile

 

[Zidane98]

I think I already insinuated my intuition, a dirty tricks from America, that has plausible deniability. It would be an anti air missile

So the Americans shot down a Russian plane in Egyptian airspace. Nobody noticed a patriot SAM missile system deployed smack bang in the middle of Egypt or managed to photograph it. In the meantime Russian & Egyptian investigators analyse the wreckage and declare that a missile was not involved but I guess they were in on the conspiracy too.

Got to be one of the most deluded posts yet seen on BF and that's saying something.

 

[blackcat]

I said a hypothetical you goose.

if it was done, it was done with plausible deniability integral in the action...

salient qualifier "IF" .. if, if, if ????


not a missile, not a missile.... jeebus m8, you need to get a grip.

what the tell would be however, is how Russia reacts, and if there are any strange behaviour or aggressions[sic] by their proxies.

 

[Zidane98]

I said a hypothetical you goose.

if it was done, it was done with plausible deniability integral in the action...

salient qualifier "IF" .. if, if, if ????


not a missile, not a missile.... jeebus m8, you need to get a grip.

what the tell would be however, is how Russia reacts, and if there are any strange behaviour or aggressions[sic] by their proxies.

PMSL. I need to get a grip. Remind me who's the one hypothesising USA attacking a Russian aircraft on Eygptian territory in broad daylight?

There simply isn't a question of "if" at all. You might want to find some factual evidence first before posting nonsensical theories.

 

[awaremind]

Maidan protestors surround police officers during the uprising that brought down the previous government in Ukraine. Photograph: Kommersant Photo/Kommersant via Getty Images

With the original caption from the once respectable guardian...

 

[Zidane98]

Maidan protestors surround police officers during the uprising that brought down the previous government in Ukraine. Photograph: Kommersant Photo/Kommersant via Getty Images

With the original caption from the once respectable guardian...

Wrong thread for political propaganda.

 

[Zidane98]

Heat getting turned up on the Ruskies now. Lockerbie lawyer suing Russian federation for $300m on behalf of 40 victims.

BUK missile battery traced all the way back to 53rd Kursk missile brigade. Some of the soldiers posted photos on their VK.com accounts of them in Rostov region and Donbass region in mid July 2014. Have sInce been removed but fortunately were saved on file by Bellingcat investigators. Hilariously the Russian ministry of foreign affairs emailed Bellingcat complaining about the lack of quotes from Russian experts.

 

[Power Raid]

Hopefully Russia just puts up it's hand and says sorry. these things do happen in war but the measure of Russia will be taking responsibility

 

[Zidane98]

Hopefully Russia just puts up it's hand and says sorry. these things do happen in war but the measure of Russia will be taking responsibility

Probably going to take a change of government for that to happen. They don't want to be seen as supporters of the war in donbass of which their guilt in this matter confirms.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Probably going to take a change of government for that to happen. They don't want to be seen as supporters of the war in donbass of which their guilt in this matter confirms.

I get what you're saying, but its not like America takes responsibility every time they literally bomb hospitals and schools directly. Let alone the stuff their proxies do. No imperial power does this. Not even the middling powers like France or England do this.

It is way too much to expect states to admit this kind of responsibility. I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying, just that in real politik states just don't take the blame for the innocent lives they take.

If legal action is successful against Russia (and it may be in court, but considering all the sanctions against their corrupt elite already, what else can the west really do?) does that then allow say, Russian victims of the Cairo plane bombing to sue the governments of Saudi Arabia and Qatar for their support of terrorism?

 

[Zidane98]

I get what you're saying, but its not like America takes responsibility every time they literally bomb hospitals and schools directly. Let alone the stuff their proxies do. No imperial power does this. Not even the middling powers like France or England do this.

It is way too much to expect states to admit this kind of responsibility. I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying, just that in real politik states just don't take the blame for the innocent lives they take.

If legal action is successful against Russia (and it may be in court, but considering all the sanctions against their corrupt elite already, what else can the west really do?) does that then allow say, Russian victims of the Cairo plane bombing to sue the governments of Saudi Arabia and Qatar for their support of terrorism?

Legal action against Libya was successful for their role in the Pan Am 103 bombing.

No other nation targets schools or hospitals with intent.

The Russian missile crew fired on a radar return without identifying it when a mobile phone and an internet connection would have told them it was a civilian aircraft flying at 33K feet.

They don't have plausible deniability any longer such is the plethora of evidence against them. Time to confess and settle out of court with the victims.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

I do hope you are right but Russia and Libya are fairly different.

 

[Zidane98]

I do hope you are right but Russia and Libya are fairly different.

I don't see a Putin government ever accepting responsibility for the disaster unless forced to do so unfortunately. It would go against his aims of undermining Ukraine with a frozen conflict in the East.

 

[Lebbo73]

I don't see a Putin government ever accepting responsibility for the disaster unless forced to do so unfortunately. It would go against his aims of undermining Ukraine with a frozen conflict in the East.

You would do the same thing if NATO was encircling you.
The CIA destabilised a democratically elected government. All because they were going to side with Russia financially and economically. This government collapses and the East of the country, mostly Russian, don't want a bar of the US puppet masters that were installed to run the country. Russia steps in to defend this region, crimea etc, from CIA/Ukrainian aggression and it is on. Then MH17 is shot down by most likely the Ukrainian army. If not, very unlikely, you just accept Western backed propaganda that Russia was responsible. Completely ignoring the fact that the first piece of evidence released was a dodged up audio of Russian rebels saying that they accidentally shot it down. Oops, that was made the day before the planned downing of a civilian plane with Russia as a scapegoat!

 

[Zidane98]

You would do the same thing if NATO was encircling you.
The CIA destabilised a democratically elected government. All because they were going to side with Russia financially and economically.

The CIA had nothing to do with it. Ukrainians have been trying to rid themselves of Russian hegemony for quite some time.

Then MH17 is shot down by most likely the Ukrainian army

If not, very unlikely, you just accept Western backed propaganda that Russia was responsible. Completely ignoring the fact that the first piece of evidence released was a dodged up audio of Russian rebels saying that they accidentally shot it down. Oops, that was made the day before the planned downing of a civilian plane with Russia as a scapegoat![/QUOTE]

There is absolutely zero evidence that the Ukrainians shot down MH17. If it were the case it wouldn't have been an accident and the Netherlands, a country that lost 193 people in the disaster, would have gone nuts.

As for propaganda that clearly comes from the Russian side only. Here's a nice list for you comrade:

http://www.russialies.com/russias-top-10-lies-about-downed-malaysia-airliner/

I particularly like the life news report (there is a video link from youtube). Russian news presenter reports that the rebels have shot down an AN-26 on July 17th 2014 in the area near Snizhne (sound familiar) on the day of the shutdown.

Same Russian news anchor comes back on once they realise that the rebels have shot down a commercial aircraft and reports that "it couldn't have been shot down by the rebels"!!!!!! Now you have to be a real idiot if you can't put 2 and 2 together here with Girkin also posting on his VK.COM account "we told you not to fly in our skies" and that the rebels had downed an AN-26 near Snizhne on the very same day.

As for your claims that the audio tape was made the day before the crash. Well you are incorrect yet again comrade.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-m...re-the-crash-and-other-timeline-issues.t3988/

If you actually got your facts straight you would discover that youtube videos subtract one day from the upload date to account for timezone differences worldwide. The actual upload of the video was 20:32 on July 17th - 6 hours after the shootdown. Try uploading a video yourself to test it out.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Looks like they are getting closer to where it was fire from and by whom.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/maly...where-missile-originated-20160919-grjz94.html

 

[Zidane98]

Looks like they are getting closer to where it was fire from and by whom.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/maly...where-missile-originated-20160919-grjz94.html

The criminal report is due out on the 28th.

We can expect a barrage of Russian propaganda in the next week or so as the criminal investigation will not put them in a good light.

 

[Lebbo73]

The criminal report is due out on the 28th.

We can expect a barrage of Russian propaganda in the next week or so as the criminal investigation will not put them in a good light.

The Ukrainians only tried to get rid of Russian hegemony when the CIA took control of the capital.
You keep forgetting that Russia has pretty well all of its military bases in Russia. Can you say that the US has even 10% of its military bases in its own country. Who is the major aggressor when it comes to international affairs?

 

[Zidane98]

Looks like the Russian propaganda war continues.....

 

[Lebbo73]

Looks like the Russian propaganda war continues.....

The US is even better at it than Russia

 

[Lebbo73]

Or likes to think they are

 

[awaremind]

Looks like the Russian propaganda war continues.....

The USA is pretty much having a war against its own credibility, the Russians are just trying to cooperate.