How do we copy the Geelong and Swans models of not bottoming out?

[TheGreatGrundy]

Which is the second silliest thread title I have read all year…. First being of course the one about the Time Sniper

With Time Swiper, I thought I must have stumbled onto a science fiction thread, though I can't even recall now what the thread was about.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

With Time Swiper, I thought I must have stumbled onto a science fiction thread, though I can't even recall now what the thread was about.

it took a different path up some country roads

 

[Gone Critical]

Geelong 2007-11 says the same. Take those out of the equation and 2022 is their only premiership since the 60s

I reckon if you look at the modern era as being since 2000 when the current finals system came in and the basics of the comp as pretty much as they are today we have been as good as anyone at developing competitive teams.

We had
2002-03 GFs
2007-2012 PFs, GFs and 1 flag
2018 GF
2023 Flag

Geelong, Hawks, WCE and Syd are the others who have done something similar.

Rich and Brisbane great runs but also a lot of down times

The history of it also turns on small moments

A good last Q in 2011 and Geel and Coll both have 3 flags in the era
Advantage not called and Lions next play leads to a goal and they have 4 flags and we 1
Good last Q 2011 and Dom Sheed misses and we have 4

Its been great over all for the Pies and we should be proud of the way the club adapted to the modern era but I reckon 3 flags would be just.

 

[Gone Critical]

In short, they don't get reamed, they take no s**t. Nor do they swan off with their family on sabbaticals. They stand on their principles and accessible surf beaches, and get their man.

Collingwood with accesible surf beaches would be the best place in the world. Maybe tuck a sandbelt in as well.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I reckon if you look at the modern era as being since 2000 when the current finals system came in and the basics of the comp as pretty much as they are today we have been as good as anyone at developing competitive teams.

We had
2002-03 GFs
2007-2012 PFs, GFs and 1 flag
2018 GF
2023 Flag

Geelong, Hawks, WCE and Syd are the others who have done something similar.

Rich and Brisbane great runs but also a lot of down times

The history of it also turns on small moments

A good last Q in 2011 and Geel and Coll both have 3 flags in the era
Advantage not called and Lions next play leads to a goal and they have 4 flags and we 1
Good last Q 2011 and Dom Sheed misses and we have 4

Its been great over all for the Pies and we should be proud of the way the club adapted to the modern era but I reckon 3 flags would be just.

We have lost 4 and won 2… 4 and 3 if you count 1990. One more needed to square the ledger in the modern era.

That craps all over 7 straight losses between 64 and 81…

 

[stormskye]

if Sydney didn’t bottom out, how did they get Logan McDonald?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

if Sydney didn’t bottom out, how did they get Logan McDonald?

Also…

Imagine the furore at Collingwood if we picked up Buddy for ten years and didn’t win a premiership. All forgiven at the Swans though.

 

[barrackers]

The Geelong method is easy.

Just got to go out and sign the best mid and forward in the comp because they love the "lifestyle" while still somehow having zero salary cap issues.

The Costa living really does Cotton On at the cattery

 

[barrackers]

Having veterans play deeper into their 30s helps and thankfully we’ve been able to improve in this area.

As an example, Travis Cloke is the same age as Franklin and is only 1 year older than Hawkins, but he’s been retired for 7 seasons.

 

[Prexm]

We have lost 4 and won 2… 4 and 3 if you count 1990. One more needed to square the ledger in the modern era.

That craps all over 7 straight losses between 64 and 81…

Let’s count 1990 that’s when the AFL brand started. So yes craps all over it.
I like these figures.
2005-2023.
Pies 18 finals wins including 2 flags. Just short of 1 per year.
Blues as many finals wins as spoons 4.
Bombers no finals wins. 20 years if they don’t win one this year.

 

[Gone Critical]

We have lost 4 and won 2… 4 and 3 if you count 1990. One more needed to square the ledger in the modern era.

That craps all over 7 straight losses between 64 and 81…

8 if you add 60 as I always do as I was born 3 week before that GF

 

[Gone Critical]

Let’s count 1990 that’s when the AFL brand started. So yes craps all over it.
I like these figures.
2005-2023.
Pies 18 finals wins including 2 flags. Just short of 1 per year.
Blues as many finals wins as spoons 4.
Bombers no finals wins. 20 years if they don’t win one this year.

Now you're talking

 

[loki04]

Also…

Imagine the furore at Collingwood if we picked up Buddy for ten years and didn’t win a premiership. All forgiven at the Swans though.

Do we also get thier 900k COLA for over half of it?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Do we also get thier 900k COLA for over half of it?

No

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

8 if you add 60 as I always do as I was born 3 week before that GF

Always forget 1960! Thank god 1958 stopped a five in a row record for Melbourne

 

[76woodenspooners]

Which is the second silliest thread title I have read all year…. First being of course the one about the Time Sniper

Oh, c’mon, Time Sniper has become a cult hero!

 

[barrackers]

We’ve done better than a lot of clubs with academies and father son. The greatest advantage with both though is being able to have your cake and eat it too.

Under different rules we got DeGoey before a bid on Moore and the cats drafted Selwood before Hawkins.

More recently we’ve traded back or out instead of up to beat the bid. Quaynor we traded a first round for Beams, Daicos what ended up as pick 2 for a couple of picks in the 20s, McInnes our first went as part of the Treloar fire sale. That’s 3 additional first round picks we could have had.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Collingwood with accesible surf beaches would be the best place in the world. Maybe tuck a sandbelt in as well.

We need to stop wasting money on gimmicks like AltaG’s, pressure chambers and indoor artificial turf …

… and invest it more wisely on a redevelopment of Dights falls to attract the players …

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We’ve done better than a lot of clubs with academies and father son. The greatest advantage with both though is being able to have your cake and eat it too.

Under different rules we got DeGoey before a bid on Moore and the cats drafted Selwood before Hawkins.

More recently we’ve traded back or out instead of up to beat the bid. Quaynor we traded a first round for Beams, Daicos what ended up as pick 2 for a couple of picks in the 20s, McInnes our first went as part of the Treloar fire sale. That’s 3 additional first round picks we could have had.

We would have had to trade the pick 2 regardless otherwise it would have been burned on daicos, so much smarter to trade down for picks of equivalent points value. . We just would have got better value for it if we knew we were going to drop to 17th and waited a year . Even then we still would have needed to nail the draft pick and done that relatively blind due to Covid disruptions

 

[Rooosterboy]

With Time Swiper, I thought I must have stumbled onto a science fiction thread, though I can't even recall now what the thread was about.

 

[barrackers]

We would have had to trade the pick 2 regardless otherwise it would have been burned on daicos, so much smarter to trade down for picks of equivalent points value. . We just would have got better value for it if we knew we were going to drop to 17th and waited a year . Even then we still would have needed to nail the draft pick and done that relatively blind due to Covid disruptions

Undoubtedly we could have got better value waiting and like you I suspect North would have bid at 1 with we held pick 2. Reckon we could have done a mutually beneficial deal with North though, perhaps pick 1 for 2, something else and a wink/nod we wouldn’t take JHF.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Let’s not lose perspective …

McRae hasn’t really been doing the job he was recruited for. He was appointed as a coach with very strong development credentials - a qualified teacher and experienced development coach at successful clubs - with the intent of transitioning us away from our aging list into developing a competitive young team of the future.

Unfortunately he got totally sidetracked by getting us to a Prelim and a Premiership with said aging list. And he continues to be burrowing deep down inside that rabbit hole - Premierships sure do have a way of masking a lack of focus.

Anyway, there will eventually come a day when we do move on from our experienced players and Fly can knuckle down and do the job he was recruited to do. And do the job he was considered to be eminently qualified for.

 

[Vicky Park]

Let’s not lose perspective …

McRae hasn’t really been doing the job he was recruited for. He was appointed as a coach with very strong development credentials - a qualified teacher and experienced development coach at successful clubs - with the intent of transitioning us away from our aging list into developing a competitive young team of the future.

Unfortunately he got totally sidetracked by getting us to a Prelim and a Premiership with said aging list. And he continues to be burrowing deep down inside that rabbit hole - Premierships sure do have a way of masking a lack of focus.

Anyway, there will eventually come a day when we do move on from our experienced players and Fly can knuckle down and do the job he was recruited to do. And do the job he was considered to be eminently qualified for.

Not sure whether to ‘like’ or ‘LOL’ at this post. As has been noted before, even Wright thought we needed a rebuild after 2021, when Fly was given the job.

He did get distracted didn’t he?

 

[steviewonder36]

Having veterans play deeper into their 30s helps and thankfully we’ve been able to improve in this area.

As an example, Travis Cloke is the same age as Franklin and is only 1 year older than Hawkins, but he’s been retired for 7 seasons.

Yeah, Travis Cloke sadly didnt have the longevity as we all hoped, his greedy father didn't help us either.

 

[steviewonder36]

Always forget 1960! Thank god 1958 stopped a five in a row record for Melbourne

Thats the thing with the demons, they dominated the late 50s to 64.

Without that sustained period of success, they would only have a handful of premierships.

I suppose you could argue, our 27-36 period is when we dominated too with 6 of our 16 flags.