Goulburn Valley FL 2022

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GrassKat said:
Would you envision that these ten clubs will be from a minor league level?

Will we see more major league clubs move to “weaker” leagues?


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I reckon we will see mergers more so than clubs disbanding and I'd expect them to come from the minor leagues.

I think that there will be less resistance between two struggling neighbour clubs to a merger than in the past so that their club's name survives into the next generation.
 
GrassKat said:
Would you envision that these ten clubs will be from a minor league level?

Will we see more major league clubs move to “weaker” leagues?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s as cut dry as ‘ premier ‘ or ‘ community ‘ clubs at risk , IMO it is likely to be a mixture of both for differing reasons .
- Many premier leagues are suffering a real identity crisis , which is severely affecting their financial position which is represented at club land. IMO this is primarily a result of elite programs such as TAC and state leagues expectation of players , or more so the restriction on those players being involved at club level .
Additionally the commitment on players to play at many premier league clubs is not appealing .

- Many community leagues/ clubs are reasonably financial , especially in comparison to their premier league counterparts . However community leagues / clubs are clearly being seen by some in head office and within premier leagues as the root of premier league issues with policies continually being implemented and altered to reflect this . This in turn is severely affecting remote clubs ability to get blokes to travel back home to play .

IMO , It really is a unhealthy environment at the moment with nearly every level of the game at odds with one another , which is ultimately going to see , clubs trading whilst insolvent and unfortunately killed by debt and others killed by a lack of playing numbers .

it’s crazy and there is absolutely no cohesion which may very well continue to see leagues clubs continually looking for options away from the AFL .
 
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"The Roar Is Back" said:
I don’t think it’s as cut dry as ‘ premier ‘ or ‘ community ‘ clubs at risk , IMO it is likely to be a mixture of both for differing reasons .
- Many premier leagues are suffering a real identity crisis , which is severely affecting their financial position which is represented at club land. IMO this is primarily a result of elite programs such as TAC and state leagues expectation of players , or more so the restriction on those players being involved at club level .
Additionally the commitment on players to play at many premier league clubs is not appealing .

- Many community leagues/ clubs are reasonably financial , especially in comparison to their premier league counterparts . However community leagues / clubs are clearly being seen by some in head office and within premier leagues as the root of premier league issues with policies continually being implemented and altered to reflect this . This in turn is severely affecting remote clubs ability to get blokes to travel back home to play .

IMO , It really is a unhealthy environment at the moment with nearly every level of the game at odds with one another , which is ultimately going to see , clubs trading whilst insolvent and unfortunately killed by debt and others killed by a lack of playing numbers .

it’s crazy and there is absolutely no cohesion which may very well continue to see leagues clubs continually looking for options away from the AFL .
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Out of interest

What competitions do you class as Premier Leagues these days ?
 
Post padding said:
Out of interest

What competitions do you class as Premier Leagues these days ?
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Reference regarding premier and community was relating to classification as per AFL Vic Sustainability program .
Interestingly GM region is the only region in the state which has 2 leagues with premier status ( GVL / MFL) , which creates its own issue for all leagues including those two leagues ( MOU’s aside ).
 
Trent the flight Steward said:
Its why Mallee clubs always manage to get a few very good footballers
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And given players have to travel further to play at these clubs their cost to get blokes on the park is going to be higher .
A sane salary cap would allow a travel component to sit outside it .
Much the same as the AFL competition itself had Cola due to increaed cost for living in Sydney .
If there was a travel component and the cap was max per week rather than a yearly gross amount I think it would be far more appreciated and accepted .
 

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"The Roar Is Back" said:
And given players have to travel further to play at these clubs their cost to get blokes on the park is going to be higher .
A sane salary cap would allow a travel component to sit outside it .
Much the same as the AFL competition itself had Cola due to increaed cost for living in Sydney .
If there was a travel component and the cap was max per week rather than a yearly gross amount I think it would be far more appreciated and accepted .
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Plenty of Caltex or now Ampol fuel cards handed out in brown paper bags
 
Post padding said:
Plenty of Caltex or now Ampol fuel cards handed out in brown paper bags
Click to expand...
And I’m sure there is plenty of cash handed out within those same brown paper bags . The point is that the salary cap should be a program where genuine cash to actually play the game is monitored not disadvantage only remote communities .
Remote communities generally have less sports competing and football plays a bigger part within the community and they are generally a lot more wealthy as a result .
Over the years that has been counteracted by travel cost that comes with the remoteness .
Traditionally more suburban clubs have had less turnover and smaller percentage of community engagement whilst having to spend less to reach the same level as a remote club .
A flat salary cap is only capping remote communities , they are getting wealthier yet are struggling to be competitive .
Meanwhile , many of the more suburban clubs have not been impeded by the salary cap and know they have room to improve . The transition of juniors in larger populated areas ( like Shepparton) hasn’t improved , I’d argue has gone backwards , and remains the biggest issue in football .
For football to survive and thrive the percentage of kids taking up the game and becoming 100-200 game open age players needs to improve .
Some are of the belief junior comps that aren’t direct aligned to senior clubs need to go . Likewise the removal of towns like Shepparton or Echuca having 3-4 times the junior sides compared to open age sides they have .
At the moment you have major town based comps trying to get as many kids as possible to play and as many sides as possible . Whilst smaller neighbour towns struggle to field sides and are consistently pissed with larger town based teams( where the kids often go to secondary school ) recruiting their kids .
it is quite a bitter war occurring all over the state.
4 kids can’t fit into the one u18 spot , the kids identify this and simply stop playing .
IMO the development of players is far improved if they play senior community football rather than premier u18’s .
The intent of the salary cap is great , likewise the points system , however it very swayed toward major populations and or those closer to major populations .
The only true way to force fostering and transition of players is to have a system based on amount of junior player numbers .
Eg : Shepp side X has 4 times the 1 pointers as a side like Rochy so they get 1/4 of the points
With the Melbourne spread growing the advantage to Seymour and Euroa is likely to continue to grow and they should become juggernauts of the GVL .
 
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"The Roar Is Back" said:
And I’m sure there is plenty of cash handed out within those same brown paper bags . The point is that the salary cap should be a program where genuine cash to actually play the game is monitored not disadvantage only remote communities .
Remote communities generally have less sports competing and football plays a bigger part within the community and they are generally a lot more wealthy as a result .
Over the years that has been counteracted by travel cost that comes with the remoteness .
Traditionally more suburban clubs have had less turnover and smaller percentage of community engagement whilst having to spend less to reach the same level as a remote club .
A flat salary cap is only capping remote communities , they are getting wealthier yet are struggling to be competitive .
Meanwhile , many of the more suburban clubs have not been impeded by the salary cap and know they have room to improve . The transition of juniors in larger populated areas ( like Shepparton) hasn’t improved , I’d argue has gone backwards , and remains the biggest issue in football .
For football to survive and thrive the percentage of kids taking up the game and becoming 100-200 game open age players needs to improve .
Some are of the belief junior comps that aren’t direct aligned to senior clubs need to go . Likewise the removal of towns like Shepparton or Echuca having 3-4 times the junior sides compared to open age sides they have .
At the moment you have major town based comps trying to get as many kids as possible to play and as many sides as possible . Whilst smaller neighbour towns struggle to field sides and are consistently pissed with larger town based teams( where the kids often go to secondary school ) recruiting their kids .
it is quite a bitter war occurring all over the state.
4 kids can’t fit into the one u18 spot , the kids identify this and simply stop playing .
IMO the development of players is far improved if they play senior community football rather than premier u18’s .
The intent of the salary cap is great , likewise the points system , however it very swayed toward major populations and or those closer to major populations .
The only true way to force fostering and transition of players is to have a system based on amount of junior player numbers .
Eg : Shepp side X has 4 times the 1 pointers as a side like Rochy so they get 1/4 of the points
With the Melbourne spread growing the advantage to Seymour and Euroa is likely to continue to grow and they should become juggernauts of the GVL .
Click to expand...
Good points roar, I think there needs to be a mou between all major and minor league clubs, as an example a young ruckman, maybe too skinny for major league footy but would develop better playing senior footy in a minor league compared to reserves. I think there's gotta be a bit of thinking laterally if AFL Vic wants clubs to survive and continue as well as participation rates for 16 years plus. As an example Keilor has a very talented junior system with many teams, I wonder what happens though to a guy in the fourth team if they're a late bloomer, at 16 their lost to footy, as there's no further pathways. Yet they could Turn out to be a very good senior footballer that's lost.

I'm not sure AFL care too much though, I think they'd prefer it that way, as then more people go to AFL games and tune into watching AFL footy, rather than grassroots footy, they'd be happy with Auskick, elite junior programs, aps schools comp and second tier comp and that's it, as it means they'd make more money from tv rights and people going to AFL to watch rather than gv.

Also not sure giving Shepp 4 times less points helps compared to Rochy. Kids in Shepp have more options, if you come from a small town footy is all you know, you grow up with a footy in hand and you've got more passion to play and play for the town
 
Trent the flight Steward said:
Good points roar, I think there needs to be a mou between all major and minor league clubs, as an example a young ruckman, maybe too skinny for major league footy but would develop better playing senior footy in a minor league compared to reserves. I think there's gotta be a bit of thinking laterally if AFL Vic wants clubs to survive and continue as well as participation rates for 16 years plus. As an example Keilor has a very talented junior system with many teams, I wonder what happens though to a guy in the fourth team if they're a late bloomer, at 16 their lost to footy, as there's no further pathways. Yet they could Turn out to be a very good senior footballer that's lost.

I'm not sure AFL care too much though, I think they'd prefer it that way, as then more people go to AFL games and tune into watching AFL footy, rather than grassroots footy, they'd be happy with Auskick, elite junior programs, aps schools comp and second tier comp and that's it, as it means they'd make more money from tv rights and people going to AFL to watch rather than gv.

Also not sure giving Shepp 4 times less points helps compared to Rochy. Kids in Shepp have more options, if you come from a small town footy is all you know, you grow up with a footy in hand and you've got more passion to play and play for the town
Click to expand...

Trent.

I suspect Rochy has just as many sporting options as the major towns.

Basketball is very strong.

Rochy has a club culture though.

Some of the others don’t seem to have a “club”.

I’m still amused Shepp sides win Premierships then everyone leaves

If I was kid I would look at that and think, well I can do the same
 
Trent the flight Steward said:
Good points roar, I think there needs to be a mou between all major and minor league clubs, as an example a young ruckman, maybe too skinny for major league footy but would develop better playing senior footy in a minor league compared to reserves. I think there's gotta be a bit of thinking laterally if AFL Vic wants clubs to survive and continue as well as participation rates for 16 years plus. As an example Keilor has a very talented junior system with many teams, I wonder what happens though to a guy in the fourth team if they're a late bloomer, at 16 their lost to footy, as there's no further pathways. Yet they could Turn out to be a very good senior footballer that's lost.

I'm not sure AFL care too much though, I think they'd prefer it that way, as then more people go to AFL games and tune into watching AFL footy, rather than grassroots footy, they'd be happy with Auskick, elite junior programs, aps schools comp and second tier comp and that's it, as it means they'd make more money from tv rights and people going to AFL to watch rather than gv.

Also not sure giving Shepp 4 times less points helps compared to Rochy. Kids in Shepp have more options, if you come from a small town footy is all you know, you grow up with a footy in hand and you've got more passion to play and play for the town
Click to expand...
The AFL seemingly only give a #$%^ about being able to skim the cream off the top, everyone & everything else be damned.
That said, I do question the benefit if clubs having 3 or 4 sides as it does tend to create a best before date for many players.
Playing at a lower grade/district level would see some continue on with footy.
 
Trent the flight Steward said:
Good points roar, I think there needs to be a mou between all major and minor league clubs, as an example a young ruckman, maybe too skinny for major league footy but would develop better playing senior footy in a minor league compared to reserves. I think there's gotta be a bit of thinking laterally if AFL Vic wants clubs to survive and continue as well as participation rates for 16 years plus. As an example Keilor has a very talented junior system with many teams, I wonder what happens though to a guy in the fourth team if they're a late bloomer, at 16 their lost to footy, as there's no further pathways. Yet they could Turn out to be a very good senior footballer that's lost.

I'm not sure AFL care too much though, I think they'd prefer it that way, as then more people go to AFL games and tune into watching AFL footy, rather than grassroots footy, they'd be happy with Auskick, elite junior programs, aps schools comp and second tier comp and that's it, as it means they'd make more money from tv rights and people going to AFL to watch rather than gv.

Also not sure giving Shepp 4 times less points helps compared to Rochy. Kids in Shepp have more options, if you come from a small town footy is all you know, you grow up with a footy in hand and you've got more passion to play and play for the town
Click to expand...
Surprisingly to some they now have internet out of major cities and kids outside of major cities do go to major cities for school .
 
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Post padding said:
Trent.

I suspect Rochy has just as many sporting options as the major towns.

Basketball is very strong.

Rochy has a club culture though.

Some of the others don’t seem to have a “club”.

I’m still amused Shepp sides win Premierships then everyone leaves

If I was kid I would look at that and think, well I can do the same
Click to expand...
Yep but basketball doesn't compete on the same day as footy, I'd imagine it's the same throughout the state, just look at rochy, Nathalia, kerang, Kyabram, Maffra, Leongatha, Colac, all you know is sport and the culture of the footy club, it's why they're successful
 
Trent the flight Steward said:
Yep but basketball doesn't compete on the same day as footy, I'd imagine it's the same throughout the state, just look at rochy, Nathalia, kerang, Kyabram, Maffra, Leongatha, Colac, all you know is sport and the culture of the footy club, it's why they're successful
Click to expand...
Nathalia has kids travel to its town for high school from as far as Finley and beyond , Kyabram has two high schools . I’d say that has a significant impact on getting kids to those clubs which other clubs simply don’t have . Kyabram had multiple junior sides in an age group 30 years ago.
 
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